Fentanyl is not a problem. Drug laws are the problem.

American Thinker ^ | December 15, 2016 | Ted Noel, M.D

[Vermont Lt]

I guess I was looking at the pure cost of the issue. Jail hasn’t worked. I supposed leaving them on the street to die is OK (at least by me, I don’t know anyone addicted any more.

The thought of Droning Mexico is kind of a fun mind vacation!

[thoughtomator]

They don’t have to be left on the streets to die. It all depends on what the character of the people of this nation is.

If the character of the people is such that we would let them on the streets to die... then I guess that’s what will happen.

If the character of the people is more along the lines of “do unto others...”, then there’s reason to be confident that things will turn out a little better than that.

[Boogieman]

There are just as many authoritarians on the right as on the left, they just have different opinions on what they would like to use the power of the state to force upon people.

[Cold Heart]

Oh, well that’s ok

[dsc]

“There are just as many authoritarians on the right as on the left, they just have different opinions on what they would like to use the power of the state to force upon people.”

Once we agree that there is a degree, an appropriate level of force exercised by the state (don’t kill people, don’t steal their stuff, et cetera), then we’re just arguing over where the line should be.

When we look at where the left wants to draw the line, as opposed to the right’s commitment to liberty and limited government, your statement is seen to be incorrect.

Conservatives are closer to liberty and God on the right, while the left is closer to tyranny and Satan on the left.

[dsc]

“Oh, well that’s ok”

Infants and children end up in the ER or dead because their parents didn’t properly secure the aspirin or Tylenol. Why is it especially despicable when the problem is that their parents didn’t properly secure their (non-lethal) marijuana infused candy?

Of course the parents have a duty to prevent their children from getting into the pot, and of course they failed to perform that duty. But why is this worse than a potentially fatal failure?

[RFEngineer]

“They don’t have to be left on the streets to die. It all depends on what the character of the people of this nation is.”

I’m having a tough time zeroing in on your position. I’m not picking on you.

There is inherent contradiction on whatever position you take on this. So it’s best to err on the side of maximum freedom. There are those who hold a moral stand for or against drugs and drug laws. There are those who profit from either position, government and pharma both profit from the presence or absence of laws and/or addicts.

Society can’t function if it enables addicts. Addicts are almost never cured

Maximum freedom would let folks who can control it have it, and those who can’t have it too along with the social dysfunction and overdoses and deaths that come with it.

Maximum freedom also makes it available to kids who may not know any better.

Eventually, you get to a place where if you want society to function, you have to limit addicts access to drugs and try to limit kids access as well.

I tend to not care what others do in regard to substances they choose to consume, but I also prefer to not live amongst addicts. That’s my contradiction.

Society cannot and probably should not try to “save” addicts lives if it also prevents any limits on addicts access and use of drugs.

So you are left with only unpleasant uptions. Incarcerate addicts to “save” them, or let them live however they default to living when they prioritize drugs above all else.

There are no good solutions, only applying different levels of freedom to different individuals, and that is almost always bad, in my opinion.

[cva66snipe]

The problem is that there is no right and wrong anymore. If it feels good, do it. If you don’t agree with it, then you are a racist, homophobe, drugphobe, whatever crap they can come up with to justify a damaging and sick behavior. If everyone followed biblical Christianity, there would be no drug addiction, venereal diseases, abortions, murders, assaults, etc. Biblical teachings aren’t there to keep people from having fun and living their lives, it’s there to keep people safe, happy and out of trouble.

I agree with most of what you posted and make an exception on drug addiction. I do so because it stems from two different causes one of which anyone including yourself could become addicted at any time.

First is recreational usage. It has no medical purpose and is for the thrill of the pill. Biblical principle covers that well. It's pretty well cut and dry.

The second one can happen to anyone including preachers, doctors, elderly, children who have no idea as to what drugs are, etc. It didn't happen in an illicit way but rather happened in the past three decades because of several factors changing in modern medical technology as well as pressures from insurers to do what was once mandatory three day minimal hospital stays into a come in at 6:00am for surgery and go home at 2:00pm with very potent pain meds once only used in hospitals.

Persons are now surviving physical trauma which a few decades ago meant almost certain death. With it for some comes a life long dependence on pain medications. Others will be shorter term patients who physically heal after a few months but needed medication during that healing process. After being cut off from medications they have needed previously the addiction overtakes them and their judgement.

Although I am not on painkillers as I can not tolerate Opiates I am medically dependent upon an often abused prescription medication I have taken several times daily since 1994. I have to have it to function. For me it is safe and I get no utopian feeling many says it produces. The drug is Xanax. It tones down my sensory processing system and controls myoclonic seizures I have. For recreational use especially with alcohol benzodiazepines can kill and because of abusers it obtained a bad reputation making it difficult to get a doctor to prescribe.

If I took the protocol medications once prescribed me the so called safer antidepressants I would be dead now due to an adverse reaction that makes it as potent as LSD in some patients and I fall into that risk group. Ironically benzodiazepines are the counteracting protocol for such an adverse reaction.

Many curse the drugs without any discernment as too legitimate need or taking into account how one becomes addicted to some medications. The medication I take I am told by some doctors will stop working after a short period of time and I will require more and more of it. Well it's been 22 years and I'm on a half a MG 3-4 times a day same dosage as 22 years ago and by golly it still works fine LOL. Take me off of it and I would not be able to leave my home nor tolerate many sounds or optical stimulation.

The media hyped medication witch hunts done in ignorance aimed at everyone with no distinctions make it much harder for patients like me to obtain legitimate medication. I have Inner Ear and likely some Cerebellar Sensory Processing Damage. My Inner Ears are damaged and possibly a portion of my brain which it coordinates with. I was likely born with it in the late 1950's and in the mid 1990's, misdiagnosed as ADD ADHD in the 1960's & it reached a disabling point in 1994 with seizure and multitasking issues onset. I only understood it in about 1999 thanks to getting a computer and doing some research using my medical history. Now when I see new doctors I have to explain my condition. Ironically General Practitioners used to know about Inner Ear Disorders. Today an Internal Medicine Specialist is as close as you'll get to the old cradle to grave GP's as far as overall knowledge goes.

OK back to my point. You do not hear anyone saying Hey we should re-think One day Surgery and address pain in the hospital where it was addressed before you could be discharged because they dispensed the medication and addressed reasons for pain as well. My prescription pain med is Ibuprofen 800mg. I also take Tizanidine instead of Opiates for Sciatica I've had for years. 40 of those generally last me a year.

[free_life]

Alcohol addiction and prescription drug addiction result in even higher death rates, are you advocating the prohibition of alcohol and prescription drugs also, or are you just another big govt progressive wanting to control everyone else?

Do you drink alcohol or use addictive prescription drugs? Ever been intoxicated?

[Gargantua]

My primary care physician told me that he has been forced, by recent Gummint rules, to drop 19 of 22 patients he had for whom he prescribed monthly pain meds.

Whatever happened to the sacrosanct doctor-patient relationship and priviledge? The Hypocratic Oath? This is so wrong, it's actually immoral.

[Cold Heart]

Seems like an odd reply to my #45 post.

[G Larry]

Do your own search.

I live here and am telling you what’s really happening.

[TheStickman]

“I live here and am telling you what’s really happening.”

I have a sister in law who has lived in Boulder for over 20 years. She says there is zero difference in her area since cannabis was legalized. She has kids in the public school system & reports zero issues there regarding cannabis as well.

So I will again ask for a link to validate your assertions, please. You made the declaration about the situation. Back it up.

[dsc]

The VA wouldn’t provide me with any appropriate, effective, and adequate treatment for pain.

I went to a private clinic, and yesterday they said they wouldn’t either.

My guess is that the DEA is afraid to go after actual drug dealers who might shoot back, so they’re going after doctors.

[G Larry]

You’re both WRONG!

>http://www.factcheck.org/2016/08/unpacking-pots-impact-in-colorado/<

...increases in these incidents were significant. Marijuana-related traffic deaths increased by 154 percent between 2006 and 2014; Colorado emergency room hospital visits that were “likely related” to marijuana increased by 77 percent from 2011 to 2014; and drug-related suspensions/expulsions increased 40 percent from school years 2008/2009 to 2013/2014, according to a September 2015 report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Traffic Area, a collaboration of federal, state and local drug enforcement agencies.

In May 2016, the American Automobile Association conducted an analysis of Washington’s marijuana-related fatalities and found that around twice as many “fatal-crash-involved drivers” had THC in their system in 2014

>https://www.yahoo.com/news/colorado-marijuana-legalization-report-001321532.html<

...hospitalizations related to cannabis use increased from 803 per 100,000 (from 2001 to 2009) to 2,413 per 100,000 from January 2014 through June 2015.

The number of fatalities for drivers who had THC in their system increased 44 percent, from 55 in 2013 to 79 in 2014.

In 2006, 21 percent reported having consumed pot in the 30 days prior to being surveyed. In 2014, nearly a third (31 percent) of 18-to-25-year-old Coloradans did.

>http://www.urbanpeak.org/colorado-springs/about-us/research-evaluation/homelessness-in-colorado/<

Although these numbers represent the most recent research, our experience indicates that the number of youth experiencing homelessness on any given night are much higher if you include youth who are in overcrowded housing, couch surfing, and living in unsafe circumstances because they have nowhere better to go. Obtaining an accurate count of the number of youth experiencing homelessness at any given time in Colorado Springs is very difficult.

>http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-homeless-denver-20160506-story.html<

“When marijuana was legalized we saw a substantial increase in numbers of homeless,” said Steve Walkup, who has run programs at the mission for 20 years. “People come out here because they hear great things about Denver, then realize costs are three times higher than back home. They can’t rent a place or buy a place and end up on the streets.”

>http://www.chalkbeat.org/posts/co/2016/04/25/young-and-homeless-a-tough-road-for-a-growing-number-of-colorado-students/<

It’s this subset of homeless students that has grown at alarming rates in some districts in recent years, especially Denver, Adams 12, Pueblo 60 and Mesa County 51.
All four districts saw their homeless student numbers increase by more than 30 percent last year, according to district data analyzed by Chalkbeat.

[Boogieman]

“Once we agree that there is a degree, an appropriate level of force exercised by the state (don’t kill people, don’t steal their stuff, et cetera), then we’re just arguing over where the line should be.”

The line was already drawn in our Constitution.

“When we look at where the left wants to draw the line, as opposed to the right’s commitment to liberty and limited government, your statement is seen to be incorrect.”

Nonsense. Someone who is happy with the Federal government regulating drugs when there is nothing in the Constitution to authorize that is not committed to liberty and limited government. They might give lip service to those things, but their actions betray them.

All the people who want to “redraw the line” instead of accepting where the line has already been drawn in our highest law of the land, are authoritarians. They just differ on how they would use the ill-gotten power they want to steal from the people.

[dangerdoc]

You would need to live here to appreciate it, but things are looking up, in 2017 the cannabis street community should be moving to sunnier climes.

Just curious, what source are you using to say cannabis is an effective treatment for PTSD???

[TheStickman]

Thank you for sharing these links. I appreciate the effort. From the "fact checker" link: "Colorado emergency room hospital visits that were “likely related” to marijuana increased by 77 percent from 2011 to 2014" Likely related? That's a crappy metric. "drug-related suspensions/expulsions increased 40 percent from school years 2008/2009 to 2013/2014, according to a September 2015 report by the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Traffic Area, a collaboration of federal, state and local drug enforcement agencies." Ok drug use is up. That's true across the country. What about cannabis use since that's the topic under discussion? "But, as we said, the limitations of the data make assessing the benefits and costs of legalization difficult." Exactly. It's going to take 10 years minimum to fully know the impact of legal cannabis. "The section on “Impaired Driving” also states that, when it comes to traffic fatalities, “marijuana-related” entails “any time marijuana shows up in the toxicology report [of drivers]. It could be marijuana only or marijuana with other drugs and/or alcohol.” This is why these declarations of "this has increased & that has happened" are useless. Because of federal law, no one can actually do a unbiased study yet. Plus, I can use cannabis 2 weeks ago, be rear-ended at a red light hard enough that I need to go to the ER today to make sure my neck isn't damaged. They take blood from me & THC is found--not because I was under the influence at the time of the accident but because I used it weeks previously. Yet it becomes a "cannabis-related accident". The Yahoo link refers to a report from the Colorado Department of Public Safety. From the executive summary of the report we read: "The majority of the information presented here should be considered pre‐commercialization, baseline data because much of the information is available only through 2014, and data sources vary considerably in terms of what exists historically. Consequently, it is too early to draw any conclusions about the potential effects of marijuana legalization or commercialization on public safety, public health, or youth outcomes, and this may always be difficult due to the lack of historical data. Furthermore, the information presented here should be interpreted with caution. The decreasing social stigma regarding marijuana use could lead individuals to be more likely to report use on surveys and to health workers in emergency departments and poison control centers, making marijuana use appear to increase when perhaps it has not. Finally, law enforcement officials and prosecuting attorneys continue to struggle with enforcement of the complex and sometimes conflicting marijuana laws that remain. Thus, the lack of pre‐commercialization data, the decreasing social stigma, and challenges to law enforcement combine to make it difficult to translate these early findings into definitive statements of outcomes." So what we know at this point is we don't really know. The article about homeless children says NOTHING about cannabis. NOTHING at all. This article is only proof that child homelessness is ticking upward. Nothing more or less. And from the last article that also says NOTHING about cannabis we read: "What’s driving the increases? Although the poverty rate has decreased statewide, housing struggles are ubiquitous in many communities with rising homeless counts." Soooooo...methinks you are the one who is "wrong", respectfully.

[tuffydoodle]

You’re reaching and looking for an argument. Look elsewhere.

[TheStickman]

crap...so much for the formatting of my post above.

My apologies.

I don’t understand why this happens on long posts but not ones half that size. I always use paragraphs but they don’t always show up that way.