Polish president: No return to imperial ambitions in Europe

Associated Press ^ | Sep 1, 2016 8:17 AM EDT

[Olog-hai]

Poland’s president has warned that Europe must learn lessons from World War II and must not tolerate any return to imperialist land grabs, an apparent reference to Russia’s annexation of Ukraine’s region of Crimea.

Andrzej Duda was speaking Thursday at a ceremony marking the 77^th anniversary of the start of World War II. […]

“We cannot allow imperial ambitions and actions to return to Europe. … We cannot shut our eyes when international laws are violated … or when borders in Europe are moved by force,” Duda said. …

[Olog-hai]

Guess he missed the EU’s “enlargement” doctrine, which already used force in the 1990s with Bill Clinton’s help. Or when former EU Commission head Barroso called the EU an “empire”.

[DoughtyOne]

I didn’t agree with what took place in the 90s, but I do not see that as an occupation and annexation either.

Crimea was clearly different. Russia marched in and annexed it.

[Olog-hai]

That was indeed an annexation by the European Union.

And it started with Helmut Kohl recognizing Croatia and Slovenia, even against US policy at the time.

This conflict was a prelude to the eventual 2007 “enlargement”, which gave the EU access to the Black Sea.

[DoughtyOne]

There was self rule in those areas before the E. U. came in.

There is self rule there today.

Is there self rule in Crimea? No.

There is a difference.

[Olog-hai]

Nope; in any EU member state, self-rule is gone. That’s what Brexit was about; the re-establishment of such.

[DoughtyOne]

Nope, self rule is not completely gone.

If it was completely gone Britain wouldn’t have been able to leave.

While I understand your point and do agree to a certain extent, ultimately you’re dead wrong.

Do you think Crimea could kick Russia out?

There is a difference.

[Olog-hai]

Britain hasn’t left yet. The hooks are still in. Instead of Article 50 of an illegitimate treaty, what Britain ought to do (but Theresa May would never do) is invoke clausula rebus sic stantibus, which puts treaties in abeyance due to circumstances not specified within them or due to deceptive language in same.

Crimea apparently invited Russia in. The Balkans did not invite the EU (as represented by NATO) in. The latter conflict opened up the EU to a Muslim migration from east to west, in addition. I do not agree with any of the actions herein referred to, BTW.

[DoughtyOne]

Sorry, not buying that tripe.

Thanks.

[Olog-hai]

What’s “tripe” about it?

The EU does not allow self-rule. They are more against self-rule than the left in the US with the federal vs. state dichotomy that they created. Ireland even had to amend its constitution in 1972 to give the EU (then the EEC) legislative supremacy over national law.

[\/\/ayne]

Andrzej Duda is a great President for Poland. My Polish neighbors love him. They grew up in Communist Poland with "one, just one radio station! That was the only one allowed!"

I got them to LOL when I said "And the wheat production was always at an all time high, right?"

[Olog-hai]

Or are you referring to Crimea? All I can say is that someone let them in due to the relative bloodlessness of the annexation.

As for Brexit, remember that the USSR also had a clause in its constitutions that ostensibly permitted its soviet republics to “freely secede”.

[DoughtyOne]

Look, if you want to sit there and defend Russia for it’s acts of aggression and trash the E.U. for it’s actions, have at it.

I’m not buying into that.

You’re dead wrong and you know it.

I detest the E. U. That doesn’t mean I’m going to completely lose my head and act as if an invasion of the Ukraine and Crimea isn’t different than what the E. U. and the U. S. did.

While I didn’t like what the E. U. and the U. S. did, I do not see them as the same thing. I do not consider E. U. to be occupying any nations they took by force.

If you wish to, be my guest.

[DoughtyOne]

Like Poland?

Man are you out there on a limb...

[DoughtyOne]

A tank division is rolling down your streets, and you don’t fire a shot.

To you, this is evidence of an open invitation.

If it was an invitation, why were tanks even necessary.

Pull in cars will new political figureheads. End of story.

There would be no need of Tanks, no need of trucks, no need of troops..., hey we were invited in.

[Olog-hai]

I am not defending Russia; anything but. Just illustrating what they are using for a pretext.

Remember, the EU rules by crisis. The more crises they generate, the more power they abscond with.

History is repeating itself in the Balkans.

[Olog-hai]

It’s as much of an invitation as was extended by France to Germany in 1940, let’s put it that way.

[DoughtyOne]

Poland is addressing Russia here.

I agree with them.

[Olog-hai]

I absolutely agree too, in that respect.

But if he’s neglecting to address the EU in kind, he’s not helping the sovereignty of his own country. Since he did say “Europe”, I am presuming that he is.

[DoughtyOne]

Do you think members of Europe fear the E. U. in the same way they fear Russia?

If you’re observations were accurate, they should. I don’t in my wildest dreams think people in Europe fear a military invasion by the E. U. I do think they fear Russian aggression.

I guess that’s why I take such a negative stance against your evaluations.

[Olog-hai]

Some do, indeed, because of the too-evident similarities.

It really ought to be a false dilemma to have to choose between the European Union and the Eurasian Union (the name Putin is currently using for his neo-USSR). But the power vacuum in the world is enabling that.