Posted on 05/04/2016 4:57:01 AM PDT by expat_panama
Without a doubt.
First explain how 25 years of trade deficits helps America. Don’t dismiss the destruction of the middle class with “NAFTA has hurt some people”. We were told that new exports would more than make up for the factories that moved out of the country. We were lied to.
Ignore him. Everyone else here tries to. He’s only here for the attention he didn’t get as a child.
>The first new Deal policies were not enacted until 1933 so they can’t be blamed for 12 years worth of the Great Depression.
We tried to re-inflate the debt bubble during that period before the new deal. During the new deal FDR helped by reforming the banks but then screwed everything up by implemented Venezuelan style socialism. The debt bubble wasn’t cleared until after WW2.
If you want a pretty good over on the subject check out:
http://www.amazon.com/Return-Great-Depression-Vox-Day/dp/1935071181
>Point of fact, there were a lot of things that prolonged it of which one of them was trade protectionism.
Then explain why Germany got out of the great depression long before anyone else. And don’t tell me it was national socialism, we all know that socialism is an economy killer.
Goodness this rational is terrible.
Protectionism is as communist as it gets.
You need to expand gov’t to have protectionist policy. Gov’t is picking winners and losers. Businesses can’t make the best decisions for their shareholders.
Businesses do not exist to create jobs for Americans, or anyone. They exist to maximize shareholder wealth.
Protectionism does everything to prevent that
So it's ok for American farmers to consolidate and produce more food at lower prices (so that everyone gets enough to eat) but Mexico must remain mired in agrarian methods of the last century so Mexicans have less food at higher prices?
Trade “deficits” (which is a stupid term by the way) exist because we have more money to buy their stuff then they have money to buy our stuff.
China and Mexico make a bunch of consumer garbage. Let them be the factories of the world
Meanwhile we create high end software and capitol goods. Not exactly cheap stuff to buy.
Until the rest of the world has the money to buy our capitol goods, we will have “Trade deficits”
We still have the industrial capacity to create capitol goods like we did during WW2. No other nation on earth can do it like we can.
The other reason we could do that during WW2 is we have 2 OCEANS which insulated us from the fighting going on in Europe and the Pacific. Our industrial capacity wasn’t destroyed by German bombers. We could build without fear of night time bombing raids.
We are a country God blessed with incredible geography, and that geography was a major reason we prevailed in WW2
Don’t like the word Capitalism - guess where it originated? I hear it was Marx & Lenin.......
It is not really representative of the central issue, which is simply FREEDOM.
Specifically, freedom of the market, or of markets.
Capitalism, as the Marxists want it (note: their first step to victory is defining and re-defining words), focuses on capital, money, assets - which the poor do not have. The word communicates, as the Marxists want, “I have money and I plan to keep it - from you!”
Freedom of markets is the real issue - which allows the poor who have little or nothing to make a PROFIT on their own efforts, and thus leave poverty, and accumulate wealth, and become financially independent.
Free Markets is what we really want. And yes, free markets produce capital. Even for the poor.
>>So it's ok for American farmers to consolidate and produce more food at lower prices (so that everyone gets enough to eat) but Mexico must remain mired in agrarian methods of the last century so Mexicans have less food at higher prices?
The point was we ended up having to pay for NAFTA with massive welfare for illegals, massive crime and Mexication of CA, and the loss of CA as a republican state. The American farmers and globalists won, and the conservatives, the Californians, the Country as a whole lost.
Did you see that protest against Trump in CA? Those people are here due to NAFTA and we may have to end fighting a war someday to stop them.
What leads you to believe this? Where are the factories to build the arms needed? Where the steel plants to produce the steel? Where's the factorizes making ball bearings, wire, paint, machine tools, ect that we'd need in a war? They're all in China.
>The other reason we could do that during WW2 is we have 2 OCEANS which insulated us from the fighting going on in Europe and the Pacific. Our industrial capacity wasn’t destroyed by German bombers. We could build without fear of night time bombing raids.
German Bombers never hit even the UK’s industrial centers. They simply didn't have the air force and the heavy bombers for it.
China and Mexico make consumer garbage? Like virtually everything we use? China can put a man into orbit and we can’t. And the high end capital (not capitol) goods are being made over there too, for exactly the same reasons. Does it matter whether Boeing makes it’s planes the USA or in China and India? Does it matter if US corporations (or trans-national corporations as they prefer to be called) follow their factories overseas? Not to the globalists. After all, nations are just an obsolete idea. Hail the global oligarchy!
Open borders didn't exist before 1994? I think the point is that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The American farmers and globalists won, and the conservatives, the Californians, the Country as a whole lost.
I see you know nothing about farming either. Ask American farmers what it's like competing with Mexican farmers. Consumers benefit when the market becomes more competitive. Should consumers (every American citizen) benefit or should they be screwed by bigger government and protectionist crony capitalists?
I saw what happened in southern California and it comes as no surprise to me that this happens when government refuses to protect our borders. NAFTA has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not our borders are protected. Saying it does only proves you don't know anything about the trade agreement you're criticizing.
It's a serious problem when people, especially conservatives, argue for a command economy rather than free(r) markets. Believing that government is better suited to determine winners and losers, rather than hundreds of millions of people making billions of decisions in which they benefit, will not end well.
Like our friend with the foul mouth, most of these folks don't even grasp the fact that protectionism gave us the federal income tax. Republicans, in their zeal to pass the Payne-Aldrich tariff, gladly agreed to the 16th Amendment being foisted on the country by the democrats, in return for democrat support of of the tariff. Protectionistas have inflicted immense damage on our society over the past century yet they are still here arguing for the same failed ideas. What is that definition of insanity......?
The Rein Ruhr industrial was back in German hands by 1925. Germany just wasn't allowed to station troops there, but it was fully in German control otherwise.
Germany instituted one of the most protectionist trade schemes ever done in an industrialized nation and the depression was over by 1935. Again, why did the great depression end in Germany but drag on forever in America and the UK? It wasn't protectionism, it was the elimination of the debt bubble.
> I see you know nothing about farming either. Ask American farmers what it’s like competing with Mexican farmers. Consumers benefit when the market becomes more competitive. Should consumers (every American citizen) benefit or should they be screwed by bigger government and protectionist crony capitalists?
Woo lad, insults? We’re having a discussion not a war.
>I saw what happened in southern California and it comes as no surprise to me that this happens when government refuses to protect our borders. NAFTA has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not our borders are protected. Saying it does only proves you don’t know anything about the trade agreement you’re criticizing.
Do a bit of research:
http://www.politicalresearch.org/2014/10/11/globalization-and-nafta-caused-migration-from-mexico/
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