Posted on 03/30/2016 6:26:02 AM PDT by central_va
Exactly... And not just Japan. How about the deals with Nazi Germany. Free traders pretend to have occupy some moral high ground, but ultimately have all the moral fiber of Jack the Ripper.
Consider the IBM punchcards used by Nazi Germany during the Holocaust, or Union Banking Corp (owned by Prescott Bush) funding the Nazis.
Bill Clinton’s free trade with China a few years after Tienman Square... tolerance for technology transfers to China, like Loral Aerospace.
“Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains” - Thomas Jefferson.
“When we hang the capitalists they will sell us the rope we use.” - Joseph Stalin
All the protectionists here on this forum want jobs back.
Jobs like stitching shirts together, inserting bristles in toilet brushes, and painting the eyebrows on Barbie dolls.
It's their vision for the future prosperity of America.
Wear it as a badge of honour. I do.
He pointed out that one man with a bulldozer could do the job in a couple of days, to which his Chinese guide replied "Yes, but we could not cope with the resulting unemployment."
Friedman's response: "Well, if it's employment you want to guarantee, then throw away the shovels and give them all spoons."
"central_va" and his colleagues are the Spoon Brigade.
I’m pro-freedom.
I’ll take that hit every time!
Isn’t he a panic?
Versus working for Walmart and being on welfare, which seems to be the current prosperity.
I have to laugh. Americans are demanding $15 an hour to flip burgers and people think we will bring manufacturing back here with tariffs? Really?
Even if you could raise tariffs high enough to cover the greatly increased labor costs of manufacturing in America, you would still have additional costs due to environmental regulations, occupational safety regulations, financial regulations, etc.
Also, even if it somehow would work, nobody has yet been able to explain to me why a welfare program for factory workers is the business of the federal government, or how it is going to be beneficial when every other welfare program is not.
Right. Globalization is the next logical step in the division of labor. Just like when we figured out that having the women try to hunt with the men was less efficient than letting them stay near the cave to gather nuts and berries, and watch the kids. In the aggregate, everyone benefits.
Of course, if you look at specifics, some people will get hurt, but that is life. We shouldn’t take steps backwards in a vain attempt to shelter people from consequences.
Also, China and several other trading “partners” are essentially mercantilists.
You know what you call someone who attempts “free trade” with a mercantilist? A sucker.
In China, due to foreign influence, they had a Boxer Rebellion. Too many of their corrupt elites were profiting from the Unequal Treaties (trade deals) made with Japan and the West.
Being more democratic then China was, we are seeing nationalist support for Trump and Sanders, instead of a Boxer Rebellion.
If neither Trump nor Sanders gets elected and we elect someone else to continue the status quo, the lid will eventually get blown off.
I read that book “Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed” by Jared Diamond. Essentially they commit suicide. If they topple by an invasion, it is usually because the elites were clueless about the internal rot.
Because in most societies, the elite are insulated from the effects of their policies. When a society is beginning to fail, the people at the bottom feel it first, then the people in the middle. By the time the elites feel the pain, it is too late for the society to prevent collapse.
That is why so many lower class people are supporting Trump. They are feeling the pain that the clueless elites like Hillary (or any other globalist) are not feeling. All big economic decisions result in political ramifications.
We keep going down that road we’ve been going down, and we’re going to find out what happens when millions of Americas who posses significant firepower get really pissed that the ballot box doesn’t work and resort to the cartridge box.
If a “Boxer Rebellion” gets started in this country, its going to make what happened in Yugoslavia and what is happening in Syria look like Birthday celebrations, because once started, its not going to be limited to economic issues.
“Will shifting part of the production of Oreos to Mexico, cause the price of Oreas sold in the US to drop?”
Price is determined by supply and demand, not by manufacturing costs. However, lower manufacturing costs give the producer more flexibility to respond to supply and demand, and if more producers have more flexibility, there should be more competition that results in lower prices. Oreos are a terrible example though, because if you pick a big brand that is always in high demand, then the price will never vary much, no matter what the circumstances. That’s the same reason Apple products are a terrible example.
“How does being able to buy cheap crap from China compensate for not earning enough to pay for these?”
Most of the economy doesn’t work in manufacturing jobs so most people’s earnings are not dropping due to manufacturing in China. The low priced goods are a straight benefit with no downside to that majority.
“Also, not every worker has the mental chops to become a software engineer, and not every person will benefit from getting a college degree, but millions of people getting college degrees WILL drive up the price of getting one for EVERYONE, including the people who need degrees.”
This much is true, but this is the fault of the federal government, not China. If we weren’t doling out student loan guarantees like we were guaranteeing bad mortgages 10 years ago, there wouldn’t be an issue.
Beats having a lot of idle hands doing nothing. And you know what they say about "Idle hands."
Go ahead and do that, and watch more businesses flee the country. You’ll never tax your way to prosperity.
“Competition with the third world - bad.”
Saying it’s “bad” is economically meaningless. We are in competition with them whether you like it or not. Either we adapt to that reality, or we suffer.
So, what is the brilliant solution for the American middle and working classes NOT collapsing? What is the brilliant solution for bringing jobs back?
You can talk about less regulation and that is all well and good. But how much less are we talking about?
Do we want NO regulations like China? Even I don’t want to breath Beijing air.
So pick a year out of US History where regulations were lax enough that they would entice manufacturing to come back to the US from China, that would not lead to the US cities and rivers looking like China. I would like a year. 1790? 1832? 1910? 1973? Or any other year?
Also elaborate on how you plan on punishing or preventing China from stealing US tech, US movies, software, etc?
What “comparative advantage” does China possess, besides low-wages and no environmental or safety standards? Are they like super dexterous? Do they posses super intelligence? Cybernetic enhancements to their bodies?
“Japan was selling more cars in America every year but made it almost impossible for any meaningful volume of US autos to be sold in Japan.”
Tariffs wouldn’t have stopped the fact that Americans preferred the Japanese cars to the American ones because the Japanese cars were responding to the market better. Neither would tariffs have changed the fact that Japanese people preferred Japanese cars to the American ones. This was a case of domestic manufacturers resting on their laurels and suffering due to failure to adapt to changing needs of the consumer.
I don't like it, it's foolish, it's not necessary and that is why I WANT a President to enact protectionist polices. I want Trump. Deal with it.
More tariffs, less income taxes!
“More people on welfare and government handouts?”
Protectionism is welfare, just by a different name.
“I’ve learned that Free Traitors™ cannot be dealt with in a rational way.”
Translation: You can’t defeat their arguments with logic because your position is wrong.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.