Posted on 03/24/2016 7:26:21 AM PDT by mbrfl
Thre is no reason to retract anything. The Utah GOP party apparatus is corrupt and they were afforded an opportunity this year to write their own rules for the Caucuses. The inference could not be clearer.
The problem is YOU believing that Romney’s minions play fair. They don’t, that is so well-documented it takes less than half a minute to see the utter corruption of the Romney machine. And they do rule politics in Utah with absolute force.
Romney gave the order to swing the caucuses to Cruz and the result is the 50% WTA threshold was exceeded by 20 points.
Now there are reports of fraud and that is not surprising. The rules made it exceedingly easy to stuff the ballot counting out of view of any delegates not in the Romney circle. It was easy and to think they wouldn’t do it is a fool’s thinking.
Cruz is not in the GOPe camp and so are you. Enjoy your stay.
Was it against the law - as Bill Still claimed -for people to send absentee ballots and a copy of their voter registration along with somebody else to the caucus?
If not, then Bill Still just falsely accused the Cruz camp of lying in emails to deliberately commit fraud. Is that something a person of integrity should retract and apologize for?
You don’t have to sputter about me being “establishment” or any other perjurative you wish to use. Please just answer the questions. It will tell the world what kind of person YOU are.
Send a copy to someone else. Who thought up that gem.
Still was referring to registration laws. Those are still in force and administered by the county elections offices.
The criticism which you are apparently unwilling to see is that the copies handed to ‘someone else’ were never verified as being true registered voters. There was no procedure for verification. Now just what in fricking HELL does that tell you???
AND knowing the corrupt criminal behavior of Romney’s Mormon wise guys, just what do you think they would do to guarantee on orders from Romney himself that Cruz was well over the 50% WTA threshold?
Now look at the result of the caucus votes. The percentages themselves indicate foul play.
You want to stay with the GOPe and the Romney camp, be my guest!
Was it illegal for absentee ballots to be delivered to the caucus with a copy of the voter registration, as Bill Still said?
Yes, or no?
Did the Cruz camp’s email encourage supporters to break the law to commit election fraud, as Bill Still claimed?
Yes, or no?
"Ted Cruz was on my side and fought this legislation all the way through.... It was that close to being passed... and I think I can say this with integrity. Without the vigorous opposition of Ted Cruz, this bill likely would have passed." - Jeff Sessions
Jeff Sessions: Without Ted Cruz, Amnesty Would Have Passed In 2013
Ah, but the people here who so celebrated Sessions’ endorsement of Trump must believe Sessions is a liar, because they claim that Cruz really DID support the Amnesty bill and DIDN’T use the poison pill to kill it, as both Sessions and Cruz have said many times. They swear that Cruz LIES about not supporting amnesty. Strange that they consider Sessions’ endorsement to be of any worth when he CLEARLY - according to their excuses anyway - went along with Cruz’s LIE.
Either that, or they know Cruz killed the amnesty bill with a poison pill, and they are LYING about it simply because they want to destroy Cruz if necessary to get Trump. The end justifies the means. Accuse a man falsely and have him crucified so you can get what you want...
The rules were written for this year by the Utah GOP, so there is no ‘legal’ or ‘illegal’ about it. However, the rules must comply with the state’s laws insofar as voter registrations, so there are issues of ‘compliance’, not ‘legality’. There were no checks for verifying registrations, therefore, the rules were not in compliance with the state’s laws. Questions of legality would only be brought up if the copies of applications and IDs were still available for review, which they are not.
There was no requirement to provide a copy of voter registration, so you are wrong on that as well. The Utah GOP asked for a copy of a government issued ID, not voter registration. That is noncompliant. The copies were collected and handed in without ever checking the ID copies against the person handing them in, open invitation to fraud.
Because there were no checks of voter registrations, Fake persons could easily be created. A dog could have been registered and it would not have been discovered. Because the ID copies are not available, any fraud has been kept from view unless one of the selected gatherers kept copies and blew the whistle. But in that Mormon network, no one blows the whistle and survives to testify.
Cruz’ mailer exhorted people to hand in ‘copies’ of ballot form applications and govt issued ID. The mailer was without a caution that the voter must be legally registered with the state. Therefore, Cruz’ instructions were not in compliance with the state law that required the party to instruct only legally registered republican voters how to obtain and turn in a ballot. Asking for a copy of government issued ID in liew of verifying ID is not in compliance. Checking government issued ID against a government database was not done.
This episode of party run caucuses is egregiously flawed. No matter who were the candidates, this arrangement is not in keeping with election integrity.
The real story is that Romney backed Cruz and set up his Mormon power players to run the caucuses. You are ignoring that aspect.
You are now with the GOPe. I want nothing to do with them and that goes for you too.
“Oh my, thank you so much. I’m gonna register my dog on that one!”
_____________________________________________________________________
Haha...then, you must be a Democrat!
Did Cruz urge his people to break the law?
It could well be that the caucus sites did not check voter registrations, though the comment by Still’s very source said he “got his credentials”. At http://www.sltrib.com/home/3639379-155/how-to-vote-in-utahs-gop it says:
“Those who would rather fill out a paper ballot, or have the opportunity to vote for state delegates, can attend the traditional caucus meetings that begin at 7 p.m. You can find your location through the party’s website or through caucus.utah.gov. Each person will need to bring a state-issued identification or some other means to verify that you live in the area. If you are not a registered Republican, you can change your party affiliation at the meeting.”
Sounds like a bureaucratic nightmare, and the system could probably have used it to conduct fraud. I don’t know; that’s not the subject of this thread. This thread is about Bill Still claiming that Cruz’s team deliberately told their people to break the law to commit voter fraud. That’s a far different thing than saying the establishment rigged it so THEY could commit fraud on Cruz’s behalf.
If you want to defend what Bill Still said, then you need to prove that Cruz’s team knew that what the AP said about how the caucus was to be carried out was actually illegal, and that the whole caucus was actually illegal.
If Bill Still can’t prove that, then what he reported was factually incorrect. Should he retract an incorrect report? (I think this is the 4th or 5th time I’ve asked you that).
Most of FR have fallen under the Trump Trance. The things they attack Cruz on, they would be praising Trump if he did the same thing. There is little talk about real issues because Trump is highly inconsistent on those. The conspiracy nut index has risen significantly as well.
Your reading of details is sloppy. No copy of voter registration was every asked for although you mentioned it was.
> “This thread is about Bill Still claiming that Cruz’s team deliberately told their people to break the law to commit voter fraud.”
Similarly, you are reading into the clear reporting what you will. The video does not say what you said above. The video clearly shows that the Cruz Team mailer said “You can still make your voice heard and vote absentee for Ted. Here is all you need to do:”
The Cruz Team mailer was not in compliance with state law. The law code is presented “All completed ballot application forms should be filed with the appropriate election officer [County Clerk’s Office] no later than the Thursday before election day.”
The above state code allows for verification of proper voter registration.
There was no voter registration verification in the Cruz Team mailer. The Cruz Team mailer clearly exhorts voters to go online and print a ballot, complete it and hand it over to ‘someone who is participating in the caucus’.
This mailer is clearly noncompliant with Utah’s state law.
I will say it again, you are now with the Romney camp, that is the GOPe. You made your choice, live with it.
LOL! Maybe they should form a joint ticket.
Only voters already registered can print off the precinct ballot, and the ballot has an individual voter ID. This doesn’t fall under absentee voting; it falls under one of the ways for registered voters to vote (same-day balloting).
From http://utah.gop/wp-content/uploads/2016-Caucus-Rules-FINAL.pdf (which says exactly the same way that Cruz told his people to do - with only already-registered voters even ABLE to print off a ballot, so Still’s claim of Cruz encouraging law-breaking fraud is NOT true):
“Same Day Balloting
A precinct-specific ballot will be available on the precinct website 24 hours before
the neighborhood caucus election convenes. Candidates on the ballot will be any
registered Republican who pre-registers to run for a precinct office or delegate
seat. The ability to print the online ballot will only be available to a registered
Republican from that specific precinct. The ballot will not include the individual’s
name, but will include their unique Voter ID, number or another suitable unique
identifier at the top of the ballot. Individuals are only allowed to vote using their
unique ballot. No copies of ballots are allowed.
The Precinct Host and ballot counters will verify that only unique same-day
ballots will be cast at the neighborhood caucus election by verifying that no
duplicate Voter ID numbers or other identifiers are present at the top of the
ballots. The ballot will accommodate write-in candidates. The ballot will not be
signed, to protect the right to a secret ballot. The ballot will be folded and inserted
into an envelope, the envelope will be sealed, and the voter will affix his
signature across the envelope seal. A copy of a government-issued ID – front
and back – will accompany the envelope.
A person may bring to caucus no more than three (3) ballots on behalf of others.
The person to whom the voter’s envelope and copy of the ID is entrusted to shall
be responsible to deliver the envelope to the Precinct Host and to destroy the
copy of the ID or to return it to the voter. The State Party will assume no liability
for the information on the copy of the voter’s ID.
The Precinct Host and ballot counters will verify the identity of the voter using the
copy of the voter’s ID to ensure the individual meets all regular requirements for
participation in that precinct’s neighborhood caucus election. The Precinct Host
and ballot counters will verify the signature on the envelope against the signature
on the copy of the government-issued ID, but will not take possession of the copy
of the ID. Once the signature is verified the ballot will be certified.
The ballot will be used in all rounds of voting.
A voided blank copy of the ballot will be posted conspicuously inside the precinct
location throughout the registration and meeting.
The Cruz Team mailer CLEARLY says absentee.
Your link is to the Utah GOP, not the state. It is the state that lays down the law for voter registration, not a political party.
The Cruz mailer has no content describing information in the link you gave.
As for printing, it is an easy matter to print off ballots from onlune voter rolls complete with addresses. The Cruz Team mailer refers to printing a ballot based on precinct number only. Anyone could access this. The state left it up to poll workers to check the registered voter rolls for ballot integrity. No such poll workers were stationed.
You can spin it however you want. The truth of the matter is that the Cruz Team is run by a notorious operator named Jeff Roe who is no stranger to cheating and lying. That is your team.
What gets printed off has the voter ID number on it; it is specific to one certain registered voter.Only that particular registered voter can get the printout. The voter ID number was to be checked against the database at the caucus. The Cruz team gave another way to vote the same day without going to the caucus personally - a way that ONLY ALREADY-REGISTERED VOTERS could use. This has nothing to do with non-registered voters being able to vote. NOTHING. Bill Still is dead wrong.
I don’t expect him to apologize; the only one who has EVER apologized in this election mess is Ted Cruz. And for doing it he got blamed for things he didn’t apologize for. Trump thinks he’s strong because he never apologizes and never admits when he’s wrong. He’s never sinned, never needed forgiveness. There’s only One who fits that description. Is Trump calling himself God?
Sure seems like his followers would be A-OK with it if he was...
It’s really sad that you don’t understand ballots have no identifying information. That’s because a voter’s vote is private.
And printing these ballots? One ballot could be copied multiple times; ridiculous.
A ballot is placed in a secure envelope and sealed, The secure envelope will have a barcode that when read by a machine will ensure no duplicate ballots exist. The secure envelope is signed and then inserted in another envelope for mailing.
The Cruz Team mailer instructed the ballot be put in any old envelope and the voter sign across the seal! No Control! Those are the mailer instructions! That’s hard evidence.
Not only were these ‘absentee’ ballots placed in unsecure and uncontrolled envelopes but they were never mailed! They were ‘handed’ along with ‘copies’ of a govt issued ID to “anyone participating in the caucus” according to the Cruz Team mailer. How in the world could anyone verify anything in this mess? Answer: no verifications were performed! The ballots were stuffed with no controls!
The Cruz Team mailer is the hard evidence. You don’t give a ballot to “someone participating in the Caucus”! That could be a neighbor or a coworker who is going to the Caucus. It could also be a crooked Jeff Roe operative.
So it is clear that anyone under those conditions could vote, citizen or non-citizen, registered or non-registered, republican or democrat, real or fake.
It is so easy to obtain a ballot, mark it and hand it to “someone participating in the Caucus”.
What should have happened is the “someone participating in the Caucus” would need to check the voter roll, check the voter ID and then take the ballot or set it aside. That didn’t happen. In fact, the Cruz Team Mailer instructed to have the “someone participating in the Caucus” take the ballot and hand it to the ‘Chair’.
And yet the Cruz Team mailer stated that such a procedure was a way to vote ‘absentee’. In other words, if someone could not make it to the Caucus, they could ‘hand a copy’ to a neighbor or email someone attachments and have the recipients give to yet another person participating in the Caucus and so on.
It’s not surprising there were numerous reports from people that didn’t know each other who stated that there were ballots everywhere with no controls, allowing for multiple voting opportunities.
Voter registration and applying to vote by absentee ballot are two different procedures. Cruz Team mailer said Cruz voters could vote ‘absentee’ but yet bypass state law that said absentee ballot applications were due the Thursday before the day of the election. The Cruz Team mailer said it was a simple matter of “handing copies to someone participating in the Caucus”, someone who in reality could be anyone attending. That’s clearly wrong. It’s not absentee and it’s not poll voting. It’s stuffing, because no one knows in general for sure where the ballots originated from.
And Team Cruz was pushing this nonsense and perhaps fraud. That behavior is consistent with the Scumbag in Chief, Jeff Roe.
Print and fill a ballot and hand it to someone over there and ask they give it to the chair. Wow! Oh! Hey you over there! Are you like participating with the Caucus? Yeah, sure! Hey please take this ID copy and ballot to the chair Ok? Yeah, sure! Let me get these others over here first and I’ll get to you. Ok got my stack now, going to see the Chair. Hey Chair! Here’s another stack. I put the ID copies on the bottom so you can get the ballots off the top and get them counted right away.
Wow! And Jeff Roe’s gonna make sure everything is on the up and up. Uh-Huh ...
I don’t believe polls but at least, it’s consistent to see a day before poll with Cruz at 47% and the day after result at more than 70%. I would have been shocked to see anything other than that.
PING!
Possible voter fraud in Utah?
He was born in Canada...
He went to the border to hand out soccer balls and teddy bears with Beck to illegal immigrant children, how many American children living in Homeless shelters across our country would have love to have either? American???
He is endorsed by ‘nut job’ Beck, how ‘anointed’ him, plus threathed Trump about stabbing and was visited by the Secret Service and then lied to them...
Cruz took on the Bush family, and we all know about the Drug cartels, drinking and other things that have and still going on with them...
Then Cruz takes on Mitt Romney, who is disliked in Utah by a lot of people, Mormons included and tears down the one person who financially backed him and went out to campaign with him several times, with friends like this, you don't need enemies...
Now Cruz is lowing his values, his ‘religious’ values to condone an ad of Trump's wife, before Trump and Melania were even married...
Now today on top of all this, the National Esquire has broke a story about him and 5 women he has had affairs with, National Esquire were the ones that broke the stories on Tiger Woods, John Edwards, Jesse Jackson, Rush Limbaugh, Gary Hart and Bob Dole..
Then you have to wonder about how he treated Dr. Carson in Iowa, and he did it, or he wouldn't have apologized for it...
Yes, it's really time to think about this Senator as President, he reminds me so much of the one we have...Harvard, 3 year Senator, never had a job except in Government, has a Canadian Birth certificate, and has sealed up his records...if you have nothing to hide, why seal things up...when your running for any public office your life should be an open book...
Our Nation is at a cross roads right now, we don't need another ‘politician’ same old, same old, in the White House...
The beans on Heidi Cruz needs to be spilled. She is more ambitious than Mrs Clinton
Many threads today
https://themarshallreport.wordpress.com/2015/12/04/its-time-to-meet-the-cruzs/
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