Posted on 01/13/2016 8:26:29 AM PST by detective
The only reason I can imagine is - well, two reasons - either they did not have a tow line or they were ordered to stay in place until whatever was wrong was righted.
Either way it looks really bad for the Navy’s preparedness and command level decision making (unless orders came from the US ...)
A ROE for this scenario was probably already in place.
And call it a diplomatic victory.
We were in their waters, if true they have every right to detain them. Yes, its humiliating PR, but after 7 years of Obama, that’s the reality of the world. Can’t get angry at Iran for exercising its rights and protecting its territory... may not like it, and yes if we had a President with a spine this probably wouldn’t have happened, but this is the reality of the world right now, we have a pussy as a President and the entire world knows it.
They did not have an anchor??? It is possible to use something not designated as a “Tow” rope to tow a vessel. I cannot believe there was not a rope onboard that could not have been used as a “Tow” line.
There’s no proof they weren’t. Last report I saw on this, US admitted issues with their navigational equipment... so unless you have evidence to the contrary, that’s where things are.
Yes using an anchor line would have been a thought, except the line may have been to weak or too short to work or then - well maybe they are not well trained in boat handling - there are - in my experience - navy guys that are worse than greenhorn sportsmen on the water.
Then perhaps they were under the command of the female (LBGT Factor) and she surrendered ... who knows?
What seems odd is that some stories hint that both boats broke down ... which doesn’t seem likely.
I am not giving them a pass, I am stating that they had a right to do what they did, if we were in their waters. Would you argue that any nation, whether they are one we like or don’t like, doesn’t have the right to protect its territorial waters or borders? Every nation on the planet has this right.
Yes its humiliating, but that’s reality, we have a Pussy for a president, this administration shows weakness in the face of our enemies, and as such they are emboldened. You can’t get upset if they exercise their rights. Like it or not enough fools put this idiot in office twice that we have to live with the consequences of it, and this is one of them. Another time, yes they could be warned and nothing more too it, but to say that they have no right to protect their territory, is silly.
They had a right to detain them, but if they were such good partners a Kerry says, they could have warned them or escorted them out and not published those humiliating pictures.
Again, we have a Pussy for a President, and Iran behaved in a way had we had a strong administration they likely would not have, however, that doesn’t mean that Iran didn’t have a right to what they did.
Sadly we have enough idiots to put this moron in power, this is an example of the consequences of it. However you can’t get overly angry with Iran for exercising their rights.
Yes its humiliating, but that is the what the Obama administration has been about, humiliating the US at every level. Don’t blame Iran, blame the Pussy in DC.
I doubt that statement is true, probably just another Obama excuse. How likely is it that not one, but two state of the art Navy combat boats couldn't figure out where they were? Just how did both of their GPS navigation systems fail? And are we really supposed to believe that the US military and intelligence operations can't locate a good sized boat operating in the Straits of Hormuz, or the Persian Sea?
If the navigation systems failed on both boats then we really have to ask what happened to our military - and promptly provide every navy ship and boat with a Garmin GPS and some maps.
It depends on how they exercised that right assuming that we indeed did stray into their territorial waters. Why are you assuming that we were in their territorial waters? The Iranians seized the GPS units of both ships. I find it hard to believe that both units failed to work.
The UN Convention on Law of the Sea (UNCLOS), 1982 states,
UNCLOS provides some general requirements regarding nations enforcing their laws or international law against ships from another nation. First, any enforcement measures taken against a foreign vessel can only be conducted by ships that are clearly marked and identifiable as being in the service of the enforcing nation's government. When engaging in enforcement activities, agents of the coastal nation have an obligation to not endanger the safety of navigation of other vessels and also to not bring any detained vessel to an unsafe port. In the event that a nation takes action against a foreign vessel, the nation has a duty to inform the ship's flag nation of what measures were taken.
Did Iran comport with those requirements? Why the public humiliation of the US sailors released thru official Iranian channels?
You can’t get upset if they exercise their rights. Like it or not enough fools put this idiot in office twice that we have to live with the consequences of it, and this is one of them. Another time, yes they could be warned and nothing more too it, but to say that they have no right to protect their territory, is silly.
Those rights are circumscribed. Do you think that shooting down a civilian airliner that strayed into Soviet airspace (KL 007) was appropriate? And stop creating phony strawmen. No one has said the Iranians or any other nation has no right to protect their territory.
This event was clearly meant to send a message to the US just as the missile that missed the carrier, the USS H.S. Truman, by 1500 yards was intended to do. I don't know if you have ever been to sea in a naval vessel, but 1500 yards is very close. Our response was tepid at best setting the stage for the latest incident.
We have the US saying we did not apologize after the BBC and other news agencies said we did. We have Kerry thanking the Iranians for their cooperation. Unfortunately, the Iranian video released after those comments gives the lie to those statements and demonstrates how we were humiliated.
Based on other incidents, we can't trust what our government is saying. The Iranians know how badly we and the rest of the negotiating countries want the nuclear deal to stand. Europe is flooding Iran with businessmen, Russian has signed on to build three more nuclear reactors, and the Chinese are buying oil. The Iranians get their $150 billion in frozen assets and eventually a nuclear weapon. If the reality is that the Iranians seized the ships in international waters and we are covering it up, I hope the truth comes out.
You are offering conjecture, lets see these were what 5 men craft? Hey, follow me, I’ll take point, boat 2 follows boat 2, boat 1’s navigation is off by some degree and they wind up in the wrong place. I see that easily happening... convoys make wrong turns regularly. Yes I am conjecturing, but no moreso than you.
If we were in their waters, regardless of how or why, they didn’t do anything wrong.
End of the day, regardless of the events, the reality is this Administration is a joke to the world, so enemies are always emboldened... whether they were so emboldened to take our ships in international waters or in their own, end of the day it doesn’t make much of a difference on the outcome because the weakness this administration projects is why the incident happened as it did, either way.
However you can’t get overly angry with Iran for exercising their rights.
What is the definition of "overly angry?" Iran is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism. It has been involved in killing American military in Iraq. Iran was behind Khobar towers. Hezbollah was conceived by Muslim clerics and funded by Iran. Iran held American diplomats hostage for 444 days. Iran is not our friend and they are a rogue nation.
Based on your citings, what are you claiming the Iranians violated? They protected their waters, they didn’t take the boats to an unsafe port, and they notified the US of what they had done. So I am not sure what you are attempting to imply here. Nothing that has been reported violates that I can see the 1982 Convention.
Your attempt to equate this to the KLM shoot down is a bit of a stretch.
No doubt its a PR coup and humiliation, but that again is the result of having a pussy administration. That doesn’t mean that they violated any agreement. An armed vessel, full of military perssonel of another nation state enters your territorial waters without authorization... detaining the vessel and ensuring no threat isn’t exactly an unreasonable act.
Sure the Iranians used it for PR, but that doesn’t mean they violated any treaties or laws. Nothing you have cited suggests that they did.
They are also a NATION, and have a right to protect their territory, whether we like them and what they have done or do or not. If our military craft violated their territory they were within their rights to do what they did... whether we like it or not.
No doubt if we had a strong administration, this incident would have been different, but like it or not, americans voted this buffoon in twice, so Iran was more bold in their handling it than they would have been otherwise, but that doesn’t mean their actions were illegal.
Had the roles been reversed and 2 military boats from Iran had entered US territorial waters, would you be outraged to find out we did that to them? Doubtful.
But whatever the spokespeople say, if the two boats really did stray into Iranian waters due to careless navigation, or some simultaneous hardware failure, it doesn't reflect well on our military.
Does anyone really think THIS bothers a POTUS who makes a MARINE hold an umbrella for him?
Did they notify the US of what they had done? Did they confiscate any equipment off of the boats? Did they treat the crew with the proper respect and observe their rights? Were the boats in Iranian territorial waters? I really don't know. But I know firsthand of the mentality and kind of people we are dealing with.
Your attempt to equate this to the KLM shoot down is a bit of a stretch.
A stretch for you, but the extremes that can pursued in the name of territorial sovereignty. Remember the the Hainan Island incident?
No doubt its a PR coup and humiliation, but that again is the result of having a pussy administration. That doesn’t mean that they violated any agreement. An armed vessel, full of military perssonel of another nation state enters your territorial waters without authorization... detaining the vessel and ensuring no threat isn’t exactly an unreasonable act.
The US ships could have been warned that they were in Iranian territorial waters (if they really were) and asked to leave. You have to look at context. Iran is a rogue nation.
Iran has said the US should apologize after the crews of two US Navy boats were detained by Revolutionary Guards for “violating†Iran’s waters in the Gulf.
Rear Admiral Ali Fadavi, said in an interview broadcast live on state television that foreign minister Mohammad Javad Zarif had taken a “firm stance†on the issue when contacting US secretary of state John Kerry.
Sure the Iranians used it for PR, but that doesn’t mean they violated any treaties or laws. Nothing you have cited suggests that they did.
I don't know if they did or did not violate any treaties or laws. The US Navy says it is still investigating the incident. I am losing trust in my own government to give us the truth.
As a NATION do they have a right to develop nuclear weapons whether we like it or not? As a NATION do they have a right to fund terrorists in other nations?
Had the roles been reversed and 2 military boats from Iran had entered US territorial waters, would you be outraged to find out we did that to them? Doubtful.
We haven't had Iranian military vessels entering our territorial waters. You can try to draw some moral equivalency between ourselves and the Iranians. But it just doesn't work. You are an apologist for an evil regime that calls us the Great Satan and wants to wipe Israel off the map. They are the bad guys.
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