Posted on 08/31/2015 6:42:42 PM PDT by Theoria
The phrase "police militarization" conjures up an image of cops wrapped in Kevlar, barging into homes with semi-automatic weapons. But familiar as that image is, we don't know how common it is. There are simply no good statistics on police tactical operations in America. The federal government doesn't keep track, and neither do the states — with one exception: Utah.
The pressure to start counting the operations there dates back to 2012, after a drug raid gone wrong in Ogden. A tactical team from the local drug task force had gone into a little house where marijuana was being grown. But they ran into gunfire. In the chaos, five officers were hurt, and one was killed. The resident, Matthew Stewart, later said he thought he was being robbed.
Three-and-a-half years later, his father, Michael Stewart, dressed in a Second Amendment-themed T-shirt, sits across from the house, recalling the aftermath.
"There were bullets in the house next door," he says. "These guys were — they were just shooting. I mean, this neighborhood has children. Why would they be that out of control?"
The raid caused intense arguments in Utah: Did the agents give Matthew Stewart enough time to answer the door? Did he know the intruders were police? Those questions were never answered in court, because Stewart died in jail, apparently a suicide.
But there was still a chance to answer some deeper questions, such as how often police use these tactics, and for what purposes. In 2014, Utah's Legislature required police agencies to start reporting some basic statistics on tactical deployments.
(Excerpt) Read more at npr.org ...
Hard Cases Make Bad Law. Right now, the media’s whipping up a race-war frenzy is a much worse problem for the average person. Better arm up so you can defend the police when one of Charlie Manson’s newest Helter Skelter recruits decides to go off on a frenzy.
So we should wait until it becomes and active shooter situation?
So let’s make sure that when LEOs raid some drug dealers stash house, where the perps have AK-47s and MAC-10, that cops only have .38 Specials?
Dumb idea
In any challenged situation, street confrontation to war, the best idea always is to quickly overcome the other side with overwhelming force.
When virtually every street punk is armed with a 9mm or .40, let’s show them who is boss, right now!
Idiotic far-left article posing as libertarian.
Agree. Have the same level of home security / defense / evacuation plans in my home as I had for my hooch in Tay Ninh.
Glock 27 in front pocket, 15 rd mag in other pocket. Glock 23 on ankle, 2 spare mags on other ankle. Never fired in anger in 45 years since RVN, or even pointed at any human, but displayed twice, once to back up small town NC cop with 15-20 drunk bikers around him, in the days before two-way radio on person, radio in PD car only.
I am never at Green anymore. Blue in the house and secure buildings, yellow anywhere outside/car, orange in any possible elevated threat area.
Be well.
Oh I cannot agree with you at all. There should be zero, zilch, nada, no knock warrants allowed unless police feel it is the best option to rescue a hostage (and that would be really rare).
SWAT teams are out of control.
And before you fire back - I’m not soft on drugs. My solution is one that has proven to be quite effective around the world, to wit, you deal - you die.
How many no knock warrants were executed with no problems?
How many times did an overwhelming show of force prevent a gun fight?
How many dead LEOs?
The only fair fight is one where the bad guy gets killed fairly quickly.
Agree.
Yeah,, no. Funny how the police never had a problem being police with 38s for about 5 decades. And society around them has always been better armed.
Overwhelming force for every pissant thing because it COULD go active shooter someday? This isn’t Iraq.
“Those questions were never answered in court, because Stewart died in jail, apparently a suicide.”
Uh huh...
“The only fair fight is one where the bad guy gets killed fairly quickly.”
And in a nutshell, you summed it up. You are out there to kill bad guys. All the most effective agencies didn’t become famous for the car chases and military raids. The FBI under Hoover, the KGB, the Stasi, the Gestapo, the pre-DPS Texas Rangers, etc.
All were famous for solid work, and then a knock on the door. Often with men wearing business suits. This swat for everything is a tacit admission that they suck as investigators and cops.
And like it or not, much of the violent defense of sites is in not in anticipation of swat tactics, it is because of rivals potentially committing robbery. A knock at the door and badges and a warrant avoids this reflex crap that was in hair trigger for rivals.
Very true. The day is coming when local cops will need citizen assistance. Just be careful and realize you look like a bad guy. Be loud and utterly obey all responding units.
First, it’s far from SWAT for everything. Secondly, 99% SWAT raids go down with no problem.
The vast majority of SWAT raids are on Amish drug dealers for whom killing a cop is street creds.
Have served as Army lawyer in obtaining some no-knock warrants where military was involved, theft of Army property by civilians, etc. Goal is to have everything secured within 8 seconds of door opening.
Secondly, forget the movies about FBI. They can be very bad asses when needed.
re: Texas. You aim a gun at a Texas LEO, you will die, as it should be.
When cops has .38s, a high school fight was when one boy pushed another.
Now, it’s often gunfire in the playground. When SWAT is deployed, it’s not a pissant thing.
No knock raids aren’t just done on “bad guys” but also on citizens that have not been convicted of a crime. I sincerely doubt that the concept is what the founders of our nation considered to be a legally served warrant.
“How many times did an overwhelming show of force prevent a gun fight?”
How many homes have been invaded by SWAT teams where they’ve got the wrong address and the innocent homeowner gets gunned down ( like the little old 80 year-old Black lady in Atlanta a few years ago)? To equate a drug seizure with the taking of an innocent life puts you out in the loony bin from my perspective. The “War on Drugs” has and is taking far too many innocent folks down, and the sad fact of the matter is that the LEO’s like the action and the seizure money they and their departments get, and the neat war- making $hit they get from Uncle Obie. With all your “firepower,” I hope you get to experience a SWAT raid up close and personal where you may find yourself pushing daisies for trying to “defend” your home against “intruders” only to find out they’re a SWAT team that doesn’t give a F-ck if you live or die! While you’re at it, why not strap a .380 to your “Little Crystal Palace East” for backup?
I am increasingly of the opinion that SWAT teams have zero legitimate use outside of hostage or similar situations in which the lives of innocents are imminently at risk.
Prior convictions or the absence thereof are not an element of consideration in asking a judge for a NKW.
The criteria are; is it possible to conclude from evidence already uncovered that the persons on the premises of the NKW will resist with force and/or destroy evidence, such as use flash paper, flush drugs down toilet, etc.
I always advise anyone who has a criticism of police tactics or procedures to request an 8-hour ride-along on a Saturday night through their local LEO agency. It is eye opening.
“How many times did an overwhelming show of force prevent a gun fight?”
Ask the perps. It’s the perps who chose to start the gun fight.
“How many homes have been invaded by SWAT teams where they’ve got the wrong address and the innocent homeowner gets gunned down ( like the little old 80 year-old Black lady in Atlanta a few years ago)?”
How many homes? Damn few. One little old lady is what makes the news, as you said it was a few years ago. The thousands of successful ones don’t make the news.
“To equate a drug seizure with the taking of an innocent life puts you out in the loony bin from my perspective. The “War on Drugs” has and is taking far too many innocent folks down, and the sad fact of the matter is that the LEO’s like the action and the seizure money they and their departments get, and the neat war- making $hit they get from Uncle Obie. With all your “firepower,” I hope you get to experience a SWAT raid up close and personal where you may find yourself pushing daisies for trying to “defend” your home against “intruders” only to find out they’re a SWAT team that doesn’t give a F-ck if you live or die! While you’re at it, why not strap a .380 to your “Little Crystal Palace East” for backup?”
Now, Now, Now... it’s no time to be upset.... Try the decaf. My two .40 Glocks, with spare magazines on my person, and my home weapons do quite a good job.... because, you see, because I’m not a drug dealer and have more chance of being hit by a drunk driver than I have being raided by LEOs by mistake.
“The only fair fight is one where the bad guy gets killed fairly quickly.”
THIS thinking is 100% the problem. We have due process in this country not government sponsored ambushes.
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