(Just tossing that opinion in.)
When I arrived in North Creek in the summer of 2011, I wondered what all the anti-APA stickers and signs were all about... then I found out.
Posted on 01/20/2015 8:59:58 PM PST by Theoria
The Adirondack Park in upstate New York, with its 3,000 lakes and ponds and 30,000 miles of rivers and streams, is nothing short of nirvana for paddlers.
But often, rivers that start out on state forest land eventually flow onto private property, given that the six-million-acre park is a patchwork quilt of private and public land. A result is no-trespassing signs that force paddlers to turn around or make frustrating portages — detours on dry land with their canoes or kayaks overhead.
Late last week, a state appellate court ruled in favor of a journalist who set out in 2009 to challenge the claims of private-property owners who have argued that waterways on their lands are off limits to the public.
The journalist, Phil Brown, editor of the newsmagazine Adirondack Explorer, made a two-day canoe trip from Little Tupper Lake to Lake Lila.
Between those two points, the water route bisected a remote 2,000-acre parcel of land, laced with ponds and streams and owned by one extended family since 1851.
The route is also posted with no-trespassing signs. An arduous detour was available in the form of a fourth-fifths of a mile portage across state land, allowing Mr. Brown to avoid the private estate.
But he paddled on for two miles through the private property in the town of Long Lake, spying a deer, a nesting goose and moose scat. He had to carry his canoe for only four minutes to bypass a small rapids.
“Except for the carry, all of the waterways — the pond, the outlet and the brook — were obviously navigable in the everyday sense of the word,” Mr. Brown wrote in 2009. “Indeed, they epitomize what I like best about Adirondack canoeing: closeness to nature, ever-changing scenery, remoteness from roads.”
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Another attack on private property
“But he paddled on for two miles through the private property in the town of Long Lake, spying a deer, a nesting goose and moose scat. He had to carry his canoe for only four minutes to bypass a small rapids.
“Except for the carry, all of the waterways — the pond, the outlet and the brook — were obviously navigable in the everyday sense of the word,”
Except being the key word here. He trespassed plain and simple.
My Pennsylvania deed for land which includes a barely navigable stream conveys an easement for use of that stream.
If someone is in the water they ain’t trespassin’.
Next step... railroads will have to allow snowmobilers equal access to their private property because railroad right of ways are navigable by sled. Oh wait... that is actually happening.
When a canoe flips they will probably sue the property owner for not keeping the water clear of fallen trees.
The Adirondacks are fantastic. A truly beautiful place.
(Just tossing that opinion in.)
.
I always thought if you stayed in the water, you were fine with passing through. If you got out of the boat and stood on bottom or went up on shore, you were trespassing.
This is a big issue up in the Adirondacks for navigable waterways. The salmon runs, etc.
The way my easement reads if you are in the water (boat or standing) that is OK.
But don’t step on the bank.
Sounds logical.
Here in Florida, there was quite a court case over waterborne access. Florida law allows “navigable waters” to be used by all. The Fisheating Creek case was an illustration of how that law works.
If a body of water was used for commercial/public access by boat it is open to all. Lykes is the 2nd largest land holding family in Florida, and, IIRC, is controlled by Chester Ferguson, probably now by his daugher, Stella Ferguson Lykes. Stella Lykes family owned Lykes Steamship line, Lykes Pasco Packing, ranches, groves, forests, etc. Chester married Stella, Ya see - and the rest ‘jest happened natcherly’.
So, they decided to close off Fish Eating Creek where it entered their land. However, there was the small problem of an old sunken steamboat on the bottom of said Creek, mute testimony to commercial/public use.
The Lykes family used every legal option available (’member the “Golden Rule”?) Having lots of lawyers on staff, and sufficient gold to field a legal circus worthy of Ringling, Barnum, & Bailey, the case kept enviro-whackos and presstitutes drooling for a long time.
In the end, the sunken boat sank the Lykes.
In Neu Yuk Stadt, the waterways have a transportation history going back to the days of the Indians.
The Property Rights issue, at least in Florida, is solved by users of a waterway across private land Not being allowed to get out of the boat onto the private lands surrounding the waterway. Waters are communal property, and are open to all. Private lands are only open by agreement of the land owner.
It works well here in Florida.
Whether anything can work in Neu Yuk remains to be seen.
Don’t know the law there, but here a landowner does not have title to any waterways that are on the land.
communal property
no way
An interesting variation would be what about guided canoe trips where people are paying money for the trip? Now it becomes a commercial enterprise.
“communal property
no way”
Contest is our friend.
I agree with both Governor William Bradford and your position regarding the undesirability of communal lands. Rivers have always been public, as is proven by no taxes on them.
Likewise for coastal waters and the high seas.
Correction to post 15.
“Contest is our friend.”
Context, damn it! Context - not contest.
May be more to this ruling and story than meets the eye, as it pertains to NY / USA recognition of private property rights -
The area is a UN Biosphere preserve...
http://prfamerica.org/conference/13thOnPark.html
” THIRTEENTH ANNUAL CONFERENCE FOCUSES ON ADIRONDACK “PARK”
Speakers weave a tale of progressive repression and depopulation
By Carol W. LaGrasse
The Thirteenth Annual National Conference on Private Property Rights focused back to the reason for the founding of the Property Rights Foundation of America, the desiccation of private property rights and the attack on the future of communities in the vast region denoted in 1973 as the “Adirondack Park.” But that was not the heart of the conference. The speeches took the audience, as well as the many speakers themselves as they listened intently to each other, forward through the years and events to a knowledge and understanding of the callous “progress” of wealthy interests and fanatical environmentalists in their never satiated campaigns to make it impossible to work and live in the North Country.
The conference speakers addressed a range of topics from the implementation of UNESCO Biosphere Reserve designation in 1989, to the constant forced attrition of roads and means of access, to the regulatory impositions through the legal process and insidiously through threats and coercion.”
I would imagine if you’re having a heart attack or something deathly occur, or a bear is coming after you, you can get onto the bank. Other than that, no.
The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that navigability does not make a difference if the body of water was considered private under State law. Kaiser Aetna v. United States. Sounds like the New York courts are trying to overrule New York law on this subject.
(Just tossing that opinion in.)
When I arrived in North Creek in the summer of 2011, I wondered what all the anti-APA stickers and signs were all about... then I found out.
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