Posted on 10/17/2014 7:41:29 PM PDT by Navy Patriot
To avert a recession, Russia is turning to China for investment, granting it once restricted access to raw materials and advanced weapons.
Russia is likely to sign contracts for the delivery of S-400 missile systems and Su-35 fighter jets to China as early as the first quarter of next year, says Vasily Kashin, a China expert at the Centre for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies in Moscow. Russia may also supply China with its newest submarine, the Amur 1650, he says.
The Amur class submarine is one of the latest Russian submarine designs. It is advertised as an export version of the Lada class, a modernised version of the Kilo-class submarine with improved acoustic stealth, new combat systems, and an option for air-independent propulsion (AIP).
(Excerpt) Read more at nextbigfuture.com ...
The Chinese will not take the SU-35s or the Diesel Electric Subs. They are already building and deploying the equal or superior of both.
The S-400 may be a different matter however.
The Rail thing has been in the works for about 8 years now.
They started an $8 billion US upgrade program for the Trans-Siberian and Baikal-Amur railways in 2012, with double-tracking, modern signaling, high-speed segments, etc.
Rail access for Chinese goods to Europe is a big deal.
And at $500mil a copy we should be buying them.
Hell, the Chinese can't even build an engine that lasts more than about 200hrs for their super sonic jets.
They'll buy a BUNCH of the Russian SU-35s. And a dozen or more of those quiet Amur boats too.
Yes, it is!
Yep, they'll snap 'em up.
Agreed.
Their J-16s and their J-15Ss will be more than adequate for the Chinese needs. And in both cases, those aircraft are integrated with their own Chinese weapons and sensor systems.
I do not expect the Chinese to buy any SU-35s. Russian enthusiasts have been predicting a purchase by China of the SU-30MKIs and now the SU-35s for some time. A new prediction/rumor one each year. To date...it just has not happened.
You ping me if they ever do...but I will not hold my breath.
The Chinese Yuan Class AIP SSK subs are also very decent boas and will negate the need for any new Russian Diesel Electric boats. The Chinese have already built 13 of them and look to be building more.
they may not buy the planes, but they may wind up buying aircraft engines.
They have purchased many Russian engines...at the same time they have been proceeding with the development of their own...as you may well imagine.
The current state of their WS-10A engine is very near the AL-31F that the Russians have been supplying them. Their indigenous J-11Bs are reverting more and more to their own engines.
The J-15 production aircraft (which are their own new indigenous carrier strike aircraft which were derived from their J-11B and an early prototype SU-33 they got from the Ukraine) are using the WS-10A.
Their J-16, which is their new two seat strike version of their J-11B with upgraded avionics, fuel load, and structure, is using their WS-10A.
So...they are rapidly becoming self sufficient for those aircraft.
The J-20, which is their 5th generation stealth aircraft, is using the WS-10A, but it really requires a more powerful engine, with all the higher tech, and they are waiting for their WS-15 Engine to be ready for the production version of those aircraft. To date they have built four prototypes.
‘The S-400 is an above excellent system that can knock out anything that flies, and the Amur 1650 fits China’s Pacific fleet plans well.”
Not much use in even having a presence in East Asia if China gets that missile - we’re just sitting ducks. Might as well come home at that point.
Nice policy on Ukraine...
Putin is setting himself up for a major screwing over
Double tracked sophisticated rail can carry troops and tanks as well as consumer goods.
True, and there is some competition in the SE Russian Siberian area, but China is all about business now, and will war in the marketplace not with the military.
Russia is safe while controlling transit to Europe, but we are not in the Western Pacific.
Nor from the Muslims, both Russia and China (cooperating) will drive them South and West, to Europe and America.
What do they have, 4 or 5 of each of those? Those are still under development and Chinese development cycles, if the WS-10 is any indication, run about 25 years with another 10 years in limited production.
That said, they seem to be able to assemble airframes at a reasonable rate and they don't often crack or disintegrate.
Still running on AL-31 engines with preliminary discussion of limited purchases of the AL-41 to continue the J-20 fantasy.
It would be fun to watch the Chinese Air Force get in a skirmish with Japanese or Korean F-15's.
No Contest. Hell, their best would struggle mightily against the F-18.
Great on paper but little more than a Saddam-esque cartoon in reality.
Actually, they built 5-6 prototype J-15s and tested them for the last 3-4 years. They have now started serial production and have another 12 production aircraft, with more coming out fairly regularly now. Twin engine, basically a modernized Su-33 with new avionics, composites, and of course, able to carry the Chinese weapon systems.
As to the J-16, it is a beefed up structurally, with significantly greater fuel capacity version of their J-11B training aircraft. It’s their version of the F-15E. They have also built and tested prototypes of that aircraft and gone into serial production. They may have as many as twenty altoghter now.
Both of these aircraft are very decent 4.5 generation aircraft with AESA radars, composites structural components, radar absorbent material, MAWS, more modern Chinese ECM upgrades, and they both use the Chinese engines exclusively.
No, they are certainly not in a league with the F-22, or the F-35 for that matter.
But they would be taken seriously by any US or allied fighter wing. The Chinese have come a long way in the last 10-15 years and should not be discounted or considered to be trifling. They have modern equipment and they have the funds to regularly train their personnel.
At a time when this current administration is doing all in its power to weaken US military capabilities...and filling leadership positions with mush-minded personnel who think as they do.
I pray for a turn around by the American people, who will elect true American leadership that will emphasize our true national interests and put in place the people and program to faithfully strengthen and defend those interests.
In the mean time, we are allowing the Chinese...who are predominantly doing it with funds they are getting from us (and seeking to get themselves into an international position with Europe, Africa, South America, and other places in Asia to become much less dependent on us financially), to rapidly close a gap that should never have been allowed an opportunity to become one whit narrower.
Some have popped up (all reference I can find is TWO J-16 and TWO J-15 running the WS-10A. And while that engine, if it worked, would be a good engine you have to remember very little of what it is is Chinese. They are taking a CGM56 core (the basis of the GE F-101) and bolting Russian AL-31 peripherals around it.
Problem is they average around 40hrs MTBF and 200hrs before they come apart.
After 24yrs, the Chinese "Apollo" program for an indigenous high-performance jet engine is still not ready for prime time. And that's using 1960's US and 1980's Russian technology.
No, this handful of "modern" fighter aircraft are no threat to the F-15c/e/j...even over the Yellow Sea.
And the Chinese know it. Otherwise they would come out to play when the other kids are in their neighborhood.
Their platforms are crap with decent missiles strapped to them.
Besides, what are two squadrons?
The BACKBONE of the Chinese Air Force is cheap copies of Mig-19 and Mig 21. About 3,000 of them.
The biggest threat in the region is not having enough ordinance to shoot them all down.
Of note: The Chinese acquired plans for the CFM56 legally in a tech transfer in 1982, the onset of WS-10 development.
They have hundreds a hundreds of modern 4th and 4.5 generation aircraft that are not slouches, and with which they train regularly.
The missiles they have for these aircraft, more nd more of which have powerful AESA radars to guide them, along with their own AWACS...are very decent (meaning dangerous) weapons. Both BVR missiles that are approaching AMRAAM capabilities, and all-aspect IR missiles approaching our later AIM-9 capabilities.
No, it would be a tremendous mistake to underestimate them...and I have friends who are active in the US Navy, US Air Force, and the JASDF who assure me that they are not taking them lightly, or for granted...nor should they.
Here's a list of their current numbers of SU-27, SU-30, JH-7/A, J-10, J-11 and J11B, J15 and J16 aircraft:
That's a total of 728 total 4th and 4.5 generation aircraft. Nothing to sneeze at or take lightly...particularly it our own reducing numbers.
Now its true that they still have a couple of thousand vintage Russian derivative aircraft...but the Chinese have added these hundreds of aircraft basically in the last ten years...and they are not slowing down that production rate.
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