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Ukraine Says Russian Armored Vehicles Destroyed
WSJ ^ | Aug. 15, 2014 12:08 p.m. ET | James Marson

Posted on 08/15/2014 9:11:50 AM PDT by Zhang Fei

MOSCOW—Ukrainian artillery destroyed a large part of a column of armored vehicles that had been seen entering Ukraine from Russia, Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko said Friday.

Ukraine, backed by Western capitals, has for weeks accused Russia of sending men and heavy weapons to pro-Russia rebels that hold several towns and cities in Ukraine's east.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: russia; ukraine
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My guess is NATO intel had a role in alerting the Ukrainians to Russian troop movements.
1 posted on 08/15/2014 9:11:50 AM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: Zhang Fei

Oh My —


2 posted on 08/15/2014 9:13:33 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Looks like it’s started.


3 posted on 08/15/2014 9:14:24 AM PDT by AU72
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To: Zhang Fei

I think Russia will eventually win in this, but Ukraine will hurt them in the process it appears.


4 posted on 08/15/2014 9:16:28 AM PDT by DonaldC (A nation cannot stand in the absence of religious principle.)
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To: AU72
Looks like it’s started.

Hard to tell, given the caution on both sides of the border. The financial markets are certainly reacting negatively, although they tend to over-predict the possibility of trouble.

5 posted on 08/15/2014 9:18:05 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: DonaldC

I agree. But my question is this: How bad are the Russians willing to be hurt?


6 posted on 08/15/2014 9:18:33 AM PDT by rfreedom4u (Your feelings don't trump my free speech!)
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To: DonaldC
I think Russia will eventually win in this, but Ukraine will hurt them in the process it appears.

Nobody thought the Afghans would outlast the Russians. We figured we'd bleed them for decades, but the theoretical endgame was a troublesome new Soviet Socialist Republic that would give the Russians headaches for a good long while before succumbing.

7 posted on 08/15/2014 9:21:21 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Uncle Chip

My reaction too. This is not good.


8 posted on 08/15/2014 9:21:34 AM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters for Freedom and Rededication to the Principles of the U.S. Constitution)
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To: Zhang Fei

Now we’ll see if the Russians use this event as an excuse for action similar to what they did Georgia back in ‘08.


9 posted on 08/15/2014 9:21:42 AM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
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To: Zhang Fei

And in other news the boy president shot a round of 96 today.


10 posted on 08/15/2014 9:22:38 AM PDT by KevinB (Barack Obama: Our first black, gay, Kenyan, Muslim president!)
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To: AU72

Well what did the Russians expect — a tickertape parade???


11 posted on 08/15/2014 9:23:20 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Zhang Fei

“With respect to Mr. Romney’s assertion that Russia’s our No. 1 geopolitical foe, the truth of the matter is that, you know, America’s got a whole lot of challenges. Russia is a regional power that is threatening some of its immediate neighbors—not out of strength but out of weakness.” — President Obama, March, 2014

http://www.newsweek.com/obama-tried-paint-russia-acting-out-weakness-russia-no-paper-tiger-238420


12 posted on 08/15/2014 9:23:28 AM PDT by paterfamilias
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To: Zhang Fei

If somebody destroyed Russian armor then I can’t help but believe it must have been someone with support from the West. So, regading this being “not good”, I concur.


13 posted on 08/15/2014 9:24:44 AM PDT by The Duke ("Forgiveness is between them and God, it's my job to arrange the meeting.")
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To: DonaldC
Would be nice if the U.S. was helping arm the Ukrainians. A few A-10's would be nice since Obama wants to decommission them:


14 posted on 08/15/2014 9:32:35 AM PDT by Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
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To: DonaldC

A great many tanks used by the Russian army from the T34 through the T80 were manufactured in the Ukrainian Kharkov factory. I’m betting they know every weakness and ways to exploit them.


15 posted on 08/15/2014 9:33:25 AM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
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Sure as hell does not look like an 'Aid truck' to me.. Looks more like a BMP-2.
16 posted on 08/15/2014 9:34:49 AM PDT by InsidiousMongo
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To: Zhang Fei

Real life “Russian FTX Field Exercise” - nothing to see here...


17 posted on 08/15/2014 9:38:56 AM PDT by BCW (ARMIS EXPOSCERE PACEM)
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To: Zhang Fei; All

Poroshenko is claiming this, but there is no confirmation, either from Russia, or the rebels.

If you have been following these events, you’ll know that Poroshenko HAS to say this, because it made the major media. That has been the MO all along, whether it is true or not.

There is heavy fighting along the road to Lugansk, as Kiev is trying to cut it, to prevent aid for the city, and a key village has changed hands a couple of times in the last two days.


18 posted on 08/15/2014 9:40:30 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Zhang Fei

OUTSTANDING!!! Get ‘em, Ukraine. Stop Russian imperialism.


19 posted on 08/15/2014 9:43:03 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: tcrlaf
There is heavy fighting along the road to Lugansk, as Kiev is trying to cut it, to prevent aid for the city, and a key village has changed hands a couple of times in the last two days.

If you have been following these events, you’ll know that the rebels HAVE to say this, because it made the major media. That has been the MO all along, whether it is true or not.

20 posted on 08/15/2014 9:43:12 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Obama_Is_Sabotaging_America
Would be nice if the U.S. was helping arm the Ukrainians. A few A-10's would be nice since Obama wants to decommission them:

They have SU-25's, which are A-10 equivalents. A dozen of them have been shot down by Russian air defense units firing across the border. They need F-22's and F-35's to bomb without getting hit. The Israelis routinely knock out SAM batteries in Syria for locking on to their aircraft, but the Ukrainians aren't dealing with Syria.

21 posted on 08/15/2014 9:46:07 AM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zhang Fei
Also worth knowing:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3193158/posts

22 posted on 08/15/2014 9:48:01 AM PDT by elhombrelibre (Against Obama. Against Putin. Pro-freedom. Pro-US Constitution.)
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To: Zhang Fei; All

Per the UK Telegraph’s Oliphant, with the aid convoy, this was setup on the Russian side of the border at Izvarino/Donetsk, Russia.

Twitter says it is the support Radar for an S-300/400 battery.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BvEhvB7IUAAcQmf.jpg:large

It just got a whole lot more interesting....


23 posted on 08/15/2014 9:49:11 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Zhang Fei
And our ignorant King still will not help sending arms to Ukraine. King Obama is a communists black Muslim traitor. Please remember TRAITOR. We had a treaty with Ukraine if they remove their nukes and we would support them.
24 posted on 08/15/2014 9:49:25 AM PDT by Logical me
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To: Uncle Chip
carrying humanitarian aid.. HAAA!!!


Trucks in a Russian humanitarian aid convoy pictured parked in a field outside the town of Kamensk-Shakhtinsky in Rostov region, some 30 km from the Russian-Ukrainian border, Russia, on August 15, 2014 (AFP Photo/Dmitry Serebryakov)
--<>--


A Russian military truck transporting a self-propelled howitzer 2S19 - MSTA-S (M1990 "Farm" NATO classification) is seen near the town of Kamensk-Shakhtinsky in the Rostov region, Russia, some 30 km from the Ukrainian border, on August 15, 2014 (AFP Photo/Sergei Venyavsky)

25 posted on 08/15/2014 9:55:24 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: Logical me

“We had a treaty with Ukraine”

Incorrect...
We had a “Memorandum of Understanding”, (Clinton’s Budapeest Memorandum from 1991) which is a just worthless piece of paper when a Democrat is in the White House.

There was never any defense treaty with Ukraine. That requires a vote of the Congress.


26 posted on 08/15/2014 9:59:00 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: tcrlaf; All

Related:

Lugansk militia claims to have captured a NatGuard mine-laying team along the road to Lugansk.
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=ru&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Flifenews.ru%2Fnews%2F138470&edit-text=&act=url


27 posted on 08/15/2014 10:00:50 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: AU72
Looks like it’s started.

Incursions from Russia have been going on a while now. Nothing new.

From the article:


28 posted on 08/15/2014 10:17:47 AM PDT by FreeReign
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To: FreeReign

This time it’s different: many foreign witnesses of Russian military crossing the border. No more fairy tales of captured or purchased in convenience store weapons.


29 posted on 08/15/2014 10:42:01 AM PDT by Samogon (Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something. - Plato)
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To: NormsRevenge

A BBC reporter got to look inside some of those trucks and he found a large pile of nothing


30 posted on 08/15/2014 10:47:08 AM PDT by molson209 (Blank)
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To: Zhang Fei
"They have SU-25's, which are A-10 equivalents. A dozen of them have been shot down by Russian air defense..."

Which means A-10s would be mincemeat against a "modern" opponent without air superiority to begin with.
Likely lucky we didn't have to rely on them against a Soviet T-72 horde coming through the Fulda Gap (unless, of course, we ruled the air before-hand).

31 posted on 08/15/2014 10:48:05 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("Gentlemen, you can't fight in here - this is the War Room".)
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To: Zhang Fei

http://orientalreview.org/2014/08/13/dutch-professor-apologizing-for-mh17-tragedy-media-coverage-in-the-netherlands/


32 posted on 08/15/2014 11:08:57 AM PDT by bayouranger (Those who are anti-islam are a National Security Threat.- J.Brennan CIA Dir. Feb10)
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To: Zhang Fei

That “aid” convoy was carrying soldiers. Reinforcements.


33 posted on 08/15/2014 11:28:27 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: 1rudeboy

The “rebels” are Russians. I think we need to stop pretending they are Ukrainian rebels, heck Russia just delivered about 240 trucks of troops to them


34 posted on 08/15/2014 11:30:48 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: molson209

So all the arms and weapons and ammo got off loaded enroute,, or sumthin’.

Better to be safe than blow’d up.


35 posted on 08/15/2014 11:45:36 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: Zhang Fei
While I'm sure there'll be lots of folks cheering this, I don't see how any good can come of it.

Sometimes the bully is a genuine bad-ass and resents the bloody nose you just gave him.

If it was a column of 20 or so APCs, it may not have been smart to shoot them.

36 posted on 08/15/2014 11:48:18 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Logical me
"We had a treaty with Ukraine if they remove their nukes and we would support them. "

Absolutely NOT TRUE.

Bill Clinton signed a tripartite agree with Ukraine and Russian assuring Ukraine's territorial integrity.

That doc was never submitted to the US Senate for ratification due to widespread DERISION by several senior senators and foreign policy guru's. Mostly Republicans.

It would have committed the USA to Existential War to protect Ukraine.

And that would have been downright stupid.

Oh, it was never submitted to the Russian Duma for ratification either.

37 posted on 08/15/2014 11:57:32 AM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Mariner

In other words the Ukraine kept up their side of a bargain that nobody else took seriously.


38 posted on 08/15/2014 11:59:41 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: GeronL
"In other words the Ukraine kept up their side of a bargain that nobody else took seriously."

Precisely correct.

39 posted on 08/15/2014 12:01:19 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: Zhang Fei

The worse choice for the Ukrainians was to not hit the Russian military inside Ukraine.

The courage of these Ukrainians who fight for independence impresses me to no end.


40 posted on 08/15/2014 12:02:35 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Mariner

Then we should give the Ukrainians some nukes. That would make Putin’s terror more costly.


41 posted on 08/15/2014 12:05:00 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

Clinton made them give them up.


42 posted on 08/15/2014 12:06:59 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: free_life
"The worse choice for the Ukrainians was to not hit the Russian military inside Ukraine".

It may not have anything to do with the outcome, either way.

Russia's calculus is purely political at this point.

They are not worried about an insurgency in Easter Ukraine should the decide to annex it since a LARGE portion of the population is ethnically Russian...and another significant portion is sympathetic.

It's not like the USA is going to build a sea-bridge to Odessa and drive 1500 Abrams tanks to Donetsk. Nor are we going to project any other form of sufficient power to challenge the Russian Military openly in the field.

The is NO VIABLE military counter to Russia in Ukraine.

43 posted on 08/15/2014 12:09:29 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: free_life
"Then we should give the Ukrainians some nukes. That would make Putin’s terror more costly."

It's apparent you don't understand the implications of your statement.

44 posted on 08/15/2014 12:10:34 PM PDT by Mariner (War Criminal #18)
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To: dfwgator

I know and if our leaders were honorable they would be living up to the promise made on behalf of the American people. Few people trust us anymore, once upon a time it was the opposite.


45 posted on 08/15/2014 12:12:55 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Mariner

Not true a lie repeated too often here. The people is eastern Ukraine want to remain part of Ukraine. The rebels are a very small majority. Most men in those regions did not join them.


46 posted on 08/15/2014 12:16:01 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: Psalm 73

Revisit the results of the Gulf War. You are correct in the sense that air superiority would need to be established. You could also add SAM suppression. Six A-10s were lost in the conflict. Four by SAMs, two by crashes on landing. It decimated Soviet hardware doctrine and tactics. The open desert terrain made it easier to spot and kill armored columns. While the European front would’ve offered easier conceal ability, it would hinder mobility. It had excellent protection and survivability against MANPADS and Shilkas. It would have and has performed better than you believe. It’s offensive and defensive capabilities outclass the SU-25 in every way.


47 posted on 08/15/2014 12:16:29 PM PDT by edpc (Wilby 2016)
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To: Mariner

I understand the implications very well, I also understand honor and the fact we will be trading more than harsh words with the Russians in the not to distance future. The Coward in Chief will be removed one way or another.


48 posted on 08/15/2014 12:19:03 PM PDT by free_life (If you ask Jesus to forgive you and to save you, He will.)
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To: free_life

The mistake many make is assuming because many Ukrainians’ first language is Russian, they must be loyal to Russia.

Think of it like Ireland, how many Irish still have Gaelic as their first language, instead of English?


49 posted on 08/15/2014 12:22:15 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: free_life
Then we should give the Ukrainians some nukes

Now there's a voice of reason. Remember those missile bases in Cuba?

50 posted on 08/15/2014 12:26:09 PM PDT by McGruff (You can lead a human to knowledge but you can't make him think)
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