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Angry crowd gathers after Missouri police shoot teen
CBS ^ | staff

Posted on 08/10/2014 3:22:06 PM PDT by Morgana

FERGUSON, Mo. - A large crowd of angry residents confronted police officers in Missouri on Saturday afternoon, yelling such things as "kill the police" after an officer fatally shot a teenager who witnesses say was unarmed.

Officer Brian Schellman, spokesman for the St. Louis County Police Department, said "a couple hundred" people came out of apartment buildings after an officer shot and killed the young man. Schellman did not identify the male or say what prompted the shooting.

But family members and witnesses identified the young man as 18-year-old Michael Brown. Multiple witnesses said Brown had no weapon on him and had his hands up in the air but was shot by authorities multiple times, CBS affiliate KMOV reported.

(Excerpt) Read more at cbsnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: banglist; crime; donutwatch; ferguson; stlouis
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1 posted on 08/10/2014 3:22:06 PM PDT by Morgana
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To: Morgana

Maybe the kid “turned and reached into his waistband:

That excuse usually works for the cops.


2 posted on 08/10/2014 3:28:02 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Morgana

The police just don’t get it. When the first shot comes at them they will rethink what they do.


3 posted on 08/10/2014 3:30:24 PM PDT by Logical me
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To: Morgana

Well, Ociffer... Splain to me yer justification for shootin an unarmed kid like a rabid dog with mange...


4 posted on 08/10/2014 3:35:39 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: BenLurkin

It’s all they have to say and the police department will back them up to the end.


5 posted on 08/10/2014 3:37:22 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (The cure has become worse than the disease. Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: Morgana
Hmmmmm.
6 posted on 08/10/2014 3:39:38 PM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: Morgana

Just say he looked a lot like a pit bull, half the people on FR will cheer his demise & praise the cops


7 posted on 08/10/2014 3:40:47 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s ((If you can remember the 60s.....you weren't really there)
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To: Morgana

All the blacks ran out of the public housing yelling kill the cops.... I bet that cop was reaching for a full magazine.

There isn’t enough information to know if it was a clean shooting or not. It’s the multiple shots that concerns me. More gun control at the target range is needed.


8 posted on 08/10/2014 3:43:31 PM PDT by pallis
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To: Morgana

When they were “Peace Officers” the Jack booted thug would be in cuffs, facing a minimum of 5 years for Manslaughter for SHOOTING AN UNARMED PERSON.


9 posted on 08/10/2014 3:47:36 PM PDT by eyeamok
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To: pallis

There is No Such Thing as a “Clean Shoot” if the other person is UNARMED, it is MURDER.


10 posted on 08/10/2014 3:48:53 PM PDT by eyeamok
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To: JohnBrowdie

I’ll bite.

Is there something hiding in there?


11 posted on 08/10/2014 3:50:44 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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Comment #12 Removed by Moderator

To: eyeamok
There is No Such Thing as a “Clean Shoot” if the other person is UNARMED, it is MURDER.

Could you please your thoughts on Travon Martin vs. George Zimmerman. That one seemed like a good shoot to me.

13 posted on 08/10/2014 3:59:32 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: BenLurkin
Maybe the kid “turned and reached into his waistband:

And then turned back around so he got shot in the back. Hey no dogs were available. What's a cop gonna do?

14 posted on 08/10/2014 4:08:23 PM PDT by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Yep. First the cop's going to get a paid vacation pending “an investigation” then he's likely to get an interdepartmental transfer, most likely into another precinct, and all the boys in blue will keep to their gang-style “no snitch” rule and speak up for him in court. “The youth made a furtive gesture,” “The officer in question, a decorated police veteran, feared for his life and took reasonable precautions to stop the threat,” all that. Yep.
15 posted on 08/10/2014 4:20:36 PM PDT by normbal (normbal. socialist occupied Maryland)
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To: Neoliberalnot

Yeah so is cops shooting unarmed people.


16 posted on 08/10/2014 4:23:53 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Morgana

must be a slow night on the “high school teacher has sex with student” front.


17 posted on 08/10/2014 4:27:18 PM PDT by JohnBrowdie (http://forum.stink-eye.net)
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To: eyeamok

By “clean shooting,” I mean justifiable homicide or use of deadly force, and whether or not the people investigating the shooting will rule determine if it is justifiable. I still don’t know all the details, or if the cop made a reasonable decision.

In don’t accept your definition of a clean shoot. For instance, if I awake at night to find someone has broken into my home, that person will be dead weather or not he or she is armed. I’m not going to take a chance on anyone in my family being hurt. likewise, if I’m walking on the street, and someone decides to play the knockout game with me, I will kill that person or persons, if I can. Fists, boots, and teeth can be deadly arms when wielded by the right person.

I’m don’t know if this cop should be charged with murder, or cleared for justifiable use of deadly force. I’ll let the people investigating it come to their conclusion, and see if I agree or disagree with them.


18 posted on 08/10/2014 4:27:30 PM PDT by pallis
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To: pallis

It’s alarming that these sorts of incidents are on the rise. I was not there, so I cannot make a determination whether it was justified or not, but I gotta say, cops are opening up on folks a whole lot now days.


19 posted on 08/10/2014 4:36:49 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777

It’s a two-way street.....Da Hood is a lot more dangerous these days as well.


20 posted on 08/10/2014 4:38:00 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: servantboy777

I’m usually the first to complain about cop shootings, SWAT violence, militarized police forces, and cops with gangland mentalities, not to mention stupid cops and cops with no life experience other than military and police force, or high school and police force. You are right to be concerned. America has become a police state where cops tend to get away with unjustified shootings, destruction of private property and outright theft. Don’t even get me started with dog shootings.

This cop may well be a murderer in need of being shot. A lot of them are.


21 posted on 08/10/2014 4:56:35 PM PDT by pallis
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To: dfwgator

You bet, but if they see two hands, poppin a cap is lil excessive.


22 posted on 08/10/2014 5:02:05 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: Neoliberalnot

Does that include the USA?


23 posted on 08/10/2014 5:02:42 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: Neoliberalnot

Does that include the USA?


24 posted on 08/10/2014 5:02:58 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: Morgana

Interesting - there’s not a word in the article of the police side of the story.


25 posted on 08/10/2014 5:09:22 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: Morgana

I would like to know more, however in almost every cop/citizen vs. black youth shooting the community will claim that the youth did nothing wrong. Even if evidence shows the office/citizen was justified in the use of deadly force they will never accept it.


26 posted on 08/10/2014 5:10:18 PM PDT by matt04
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To: matt04
black youth shooting the community will claim that the youth did nothing wrong.

Apparently that's not only limited to "the community" judging by these threads.

27 posted on 08/10/2014 5:11:16 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: servantboy777

While violent crime is at an all-time low. Even the number of cops killed in the line of duty is the lowest it has ever been.


28 posted on 08/10/2014 5:12:06 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: pallis

“It’s the multiple shots that concerns me. More gun control at the target range is needed.”

That’s not a valid conclusion.

Every department I am familiar with trains on some variation of the controlled pair or double-tap, by definition “multiple shots”.

There are many reasons for this training standard. One reason being that pistols are by definition anemic and inadequate fight-stoppers compared to rifles or shotguns. Another reason being that in a real-world self-defense situation it’s very difficult or impossible to tell if you actually *hit* the person trying to kill you — as there are no Hollywood volcanoes of dust, sparks or blood to indicate such things, usually at most just a slight tug at a piece of clothing barely visible for a split-second. Training for a pair of controlled, aimed shots center mass drastically increases the probability of an actual hit.

Beyond those reasons, a gun isn’t a magic wand. You don’t wave it at someone and watch him drop like a puppet with its strings cut. Blood loss and air embolism can take minutes to incapacitate someone. That’s a long time when said someone is trying to kill you, so you train people to shoot until the threat stops — training a person to shoot controlled, aimed pairs of shots while doing so encourages a person to place effective fire on target, as well as encourages that person to frequently re-assess the threat and CEASE firing when the threat stops.

So, a real-world shooting looks absolutely nothing like a day of punching paper at the range. It’s a dynamic, chaotic, MOVING, rapidly changing situation made up of split-second life-altering decisions — often in poor light. There are no easy hi-visibility neon-orange targets, you often don’t even know if you hit what you shot at. Even when you do hit the person trying to kill you a very large part of the time they are going to keep fighting or bouncing around like crazy until they manage to leak out a LARGE volume of their blood — that takes a long time, a long time that seems like the rest of your life when someone is trying to kill you.

So, no. Your belief that the officer was deficient in marksmanship or training because he fired multiple shots is not valid. That opinion is likely motivated more by YOUR lack of adequate self-defense training and firearms experience. Range time is not self-defense training, and self-defense looks NOTHING like a shooting range.


29 posted on 08/10/2014 5:16:13 PM PDT by jameslalor
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To: eyeamok
There is No Such Thing as a “Clean Shoot” if the other person is UNARMED, it is MURDER

A 21 year old male human is charging full speed at you screaming that he's going to kill you.

He has no weapons in his hands.

You are armed with a pistol.

What are you going to do?

Well?????

WHAT DO YOU DO??????

Your life depends on making the right decision!

30 posted on 08/10/2014 5:18:40 PM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: matt04

“in almost every cop/citizen vs. black youth shooting the community will claim that the youth did nothing wrong. Even if evidence shows the office/citizen was justified in the use of deadly force they will never accept it.”

You’re absolutely right. The high crime in black areas can be directly attributed to this phenomenon; cops are completely disengaged there (to save their jobs, pensions, and freedom). I was happy to see Newark NJ lay off 160 cops a few years ago due to budget cuts; if the people can’t pay for police protection, they can police themselves. They hated the cops anyway...


31 posted on 08/10/2014 5:22:05 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic warfare against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Morgana

Any word yet from the police on what their side of the story is, or are they still trying to come up with something remotely plausible?


32 posted on 08/10/2014 5:46:27 PM PDT by alancarp
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To: Morgana

This article is from CBS news, one of the most biased and manipulative news organizations out there. This other article has more info and includes a photo of the poor innocent victim flashing a gang sign. The caption under the photo states it was provided by the Brown family.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/08/10/st-louis-teen-police-shooting/13856377/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=usatoday-newstopstories


33 posted on 08/10/2014 5:53:42 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: pallis

“In don’t accept your definition of a clean shoot. For instance, if I awake at night to find someone has broken into my home, that person will be dead weather or not he or she is armed.”

Your home is not the street. The two situations are not nearly the same. And the witnesses are all saying hands up, no gun.
As for investigations? Tell me you don’t actually trust cops to diligently investigate their own? They have every incentive to bring back the traditional “We followed procedures,” report. And not one incentive to conduct a real, hard hitting and critical investigation.


34 posted on 08/10/2014 6:03:20 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Neoliberalnot

Nice racist comment. You sure your name shouldn’t be neo-nazi?

If your remark is how the people reacted, well I don’t blame them. Time and again, we see shootings that anyone else would do time for, and cops never do. Look at the incident where a kid was holding a wii, in his own home. killed by a cop, who walked from her mistake.

More and more, people have no confidence in these ‘investigations’. We got the predictable “Our cops did no wrong” during the Dorner hunt nonsense.

LE has no interest in investigating officer shootings. Why if they actually started being critical of such, they might end up on the wrong side of an investigation themselves.


35 posted on 08/10/2014 6:09:11 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: aquila48

“Interesting - there’s not a word in the article of the police side of the story.”

That’s because they aren’t talking. Or if they are, it is to their lawyers and each other on how to justify this.

If this were truly a good shoot, they’d already be giving details. Usually, it doesn’t take long before they are telling their side of what happened. The silence here is telling.


36 posted on 08/10/2014 6:12:38 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: LevinFan

Yes, but one street witness is saying his hands were up the whole time of the incident, another witness (the other “male” he was walking with, probably fellow gang member) says that he put his hands up and turned around after he was shot. So which is it? And why would you believe these people anyways?


37 posted on 08/10/2014 6:13:05 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: LevinFan; driftdiver; aquila48

I suggest all of you consider how many were surrounding the cop as well as those that witnessed said scene. . This is a neighborhood of feral Affies. They live in a different culture, they lie, they cheat, they steal, and they attack in mass.


38 posted on 08/10/2014 6:14:49 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: Morgana

39 posted on 08/10/2014 6:17:47 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: Tamzee

“Yes, but one street witness is saying his hands were up the whole time of the incident, another witness (the other “male” he was walking with, probably fellow gang member) says that he put his hands up and turned around after he was shot. So which is it? And why would you believe these people anyways?”

Yes, I’m sure every “Affie” is a liar. As for believing? Why would I believe the cops? Time and again, they are caught lying to cover themselves. Cops have no credibility.

And if they can do nothing else, it is the most over used “He reached for his waist band,” excuse. Once or twice, I might have bought. As many times as they’ve used it? It sounds a little like they are training themselves to immediately use that one if nothing else works.


40 posted on 08/10/2014 6:19:33 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Neoliberalnot

“I suggest all of you consider how many were surrounding the cop as well as those that witnessed said scene. . This is a neighborhood of feral Affies. They live in a different culture, they lie, they cheat, they steal, and they attack in mass.”

And I bet you’ll be the first person to attack if anyone makes such a blanket statement of cops.

As for different culture? You just described cops. They live in a culture of mutual protection when one screws up. Never forget they found no wrongdoing in the Dorner hunt shootings, or the kid holding a Wii.


41 posted on 08/10/2014 6:22:12 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: LevinFan

I fully understand that we have to keep the police on a tight leash given all the power we give them, still it’s odd that there’s nothing about their side of the story - not even a no comment.

I’m as leery of the “ ghetto community “ as the cops.


42 posted on 08/10/2014 6:24:31 PM PDT by aquila48
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To: LevinFan

I disagree with you. There is little difference between being at home or on the street when there is a split second to make the decision to use force in self defense. The analogies demonstrate that lethal force can be justifiable when the victim or attacker is not armed. It wasn’t meant as a comparison of a cop on the street or a grandmother in her house, but the instant response of self defense.


43 posted on 08/10/2014 6:29:56 PM PDT by pallis
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To: LevinFan

You are out of line for implying I am a racist. My opinion has nothing to do with his color and everything to do with his own behavior as being a proud gangbanger in the picture his family provided to the press. It is likely that the unknown “male” he was walking with was also a gangbanger, no? And you will take his word as gospel?

Speaking of gospel, how can you possible put any faith into a CBS story? If you read other articles, you’ll see there is a lot of conflicting info coming from the family about what he was doing there or even where he was living. The family at one point said he was visiting his grandmother after going to the store, another article said he was living with her for the summer?

Regarding the police covering themselves, the shooting was by a young cop alone on a urban street, a member of the Furgusen P.D. They immediately turned the investigation over to the St. Louis County P.D.

I’m just saying that there is a lot of reason to suspend judgment on this case until more info is out rather than be knee-jerk “anti-cop”.


44 posted on 08/10/2014 6:37:19 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: LevinFan

Stick with the case at hand. If not, review the trayvon case. Ask why OJ walked free when the evidence was overwhelming?


45 posted on 08/10/2014 6:46:36 PM PDT by Neoliberalnot (Marxism works well only with the uneducated and the unarmed.)
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To: jameslalor

Thank you for your erudite explanation of why multiple shots might be needed when using lethal force. My quip was more a result of cop shootings that have occurred near where I live. In one instance a cop emptied his firearm into a car full of kids while the mother drove away, and in another a group of cops, thugs really, emptied their assault weapons into man who was camping on public property. The man didn’t have a firearm. The cops knew him to be a mentally disturbed individual, and he was standing well away from where the cops had gathered. He did have a knife, but was waving it in the air, not in an attacking posture. These types of incidents are not uncommon these days.

You are absolutely right. My last firearms training was more than 40 years ago in boot camp. Since then I limit my shooting to what it takes to work up hunting loads, and sight in rifles. My handguns go along to punch paper and cans, and add variety to a day at the range, which is a favorite spot in Carson forest.

Good shooting.


46 posted on 08/10/2014 6:51:58 PM PDT by pallis
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To: JohnBrowdie; metmom

“must be a slow night on the “high school teacher has sex with student” front.”

Don’t hold your breath. The teacher has not been arrested....yet.


47 posted on 08/10/2014 7:00:57 PM PDT by Morgana ( Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
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To: Neoliberalnot

“Stick with the case at hand. If not, review the trayvon case. Ask why OJ walked free when the evidence was overwhelming?”

The case at hand, is LE willingness to cover the crimes of their own. As long as that Blue Line remains, a police investigation of their own is meaningless.


48 posted on 08/10/2014 7:26:36 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: pallis

“I disagree with you. There is little difference between being at home or on the street when there is a split second to make the decision to use force in self defense.”

In your own home, you have automatic presumption of hostile intent by an intruder. On the street, it isn’t so clear cut. Sorry, but the two are not the same. Yes, deadly force can be justified against an unarmed person while on the street. But the bar for justifying it is far higher. It is not as automatic as in your home at 2AM


49 posted on 08/10/2014 7:31:01 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Tamzee

“You are out of line for implying I am a racist.”

your words. “And why would you believe these people anyways?”
You might as well have used neo-nazi aka neoliberalnot’s term of “Affie.” FYI, I’m white as Irish and sick of a lot of reverse racism. But I’m not blind to a statement clearly based on race.

I have little doubt he is going to be portrayed as a saint by his family. I also have little doubt that the cops will vilify him.

He may not be a saint, but there is little doubt that there has been a rise in cops shooting people without cause. Most of the time, no one can prove they are lying. Once in a while, like the knife shooting incident, they are caught in their lies.

The cops were amazingly silent on this one, though I see now they are making claims. Unsurprisingly, their claims require we take them at their word.
But cops have no word worth taking. They long since tossed aside any concept of truth. Time and again, they are caught lying.

“Regarding the police covering themselves, the shooting was by a young cop alone on a urban street, a member of the Furgusen P.D. They immediately turned the investigation over to the St. Louis County P.D.”
Yes, cops investigating cops. You trust they’d be as hard hitting as on anyone else? History suggests otherwise.

As for anti-cop, I only wish I didn’t have ample evidence to justify it. But I do. If cops don’t like that, they have only themselves to blame.


50 posted on 08/10/2014 7:43:17 PM PDT by LevinFan
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