Posted on 07/29/2014 12:39:31 PM PDT by elhombrelibre
Edited on 07/29/2014 12:53:52 PM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]
The 28-nation European Union agreed Tuesday on stronger economic sanctions against Russia amid ongoing anger concerning the conflict in eastern Ukraine and the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, the great majority of whose passengers were Europeans..
As expected, the sanctions -- to be outlined in detail Wednesday -- will target selected sectors of the Russian economy, including energy, finance and defense. New arms deals, exports of energy and oil-drilling technologies, and sales of items with both civilian and military applications will be forbidden.
...”France has already made its big arms deal with Putin, sanctions on “new deals” are to banned”.....
France wouldn’t sign up with EU’S on Obama’s new sanctions against Russia unless their deal with Russia was spared.
....”something doesn’t make sense here”.....
Oil wars are in play and some of Russia’s former Oligarchs own these...oil is money and money is power...some of these Oligarch’s would love nothing better then to pull Putin down and are “busy” behind the scenes. .....As one of their representatives stated during the Orange Revolution in Ukraine.......”You work behind the scenes - it’s like science - you do some tinkering then something big comes out of it!”
Their hands in happenings are seldom seen...but Putin knows who they are and what and why they are doing what they’re doing.
....” He’s a patriot, I cannot think of any other word. Some of the things he has done are pretty terrible. I don’t see how someone could not admire the man. But that’s just me. Ukraine was a part of Russia longer than it wasn’t. He wants the USSR back. So what? If we had lost WWII and America was carved up, wouldn’t some of us want America back? Of course”.......
Some of our Presidents have done some pretty terrible things as well, but we rarely discuss these, anymore than Russians do Putin’s. I agree is a Patriot to his Nation and peoples....and I think what he desires more than anything is his peoples approval. He will do whatever is necessary to gain this and continue to restore Russia from it’s fall. That hardly warrents all the anti-Russian propaganda ‘campaign’ we’re seeing MSM news and others carrying. Even journalists are complaining about this now.
Crimeains have been having referendum’s and pushing for returning to Russia for many years.....but most don’t know it’s history....this time they won it.
My concern is the personal animosity Putin and Obama have for each other and are bringing to the table, which is no longer hidden. Putin being former KGB and Obama Chicago thug swinging it out over Ukraine isn’t exactly wise with so much at stake....and the costs so high. But then Ukriane is the “Golden” spoon Eu knows it has to have to further expand out to the Urals...which is their ultimate plan.
You’re wrong. It could get a lot worse for Russia and Putin. The West could collapse his economy.
You may think he’s laughing, but this isn’t some ascetic monk we’re talking about. He and his friends like the high life. Capital continues to flee Russia. Things are going to get much worse for him, his cronies, and the Russian people.
Yes, I know that. And my point was that those who think Putin and Putinism are invulnerable are ignoring what makes our economies work today.
Yeah, too bad he was a secret policeman and a communist like his dad, too. I guess the real Putin appeals to you, the former commie turned ultra-nationalist despot. He’s a strong leader the same as many other dictators are.
“You’re wrong. It could get a lot worse for Russia and Putin. The West could collapse his economy.”
Very unlikely the west would even try, and doubtful that they would be successful if they did. Honestly we are only hurting ourselves with participation in sanctions.
We can never gain anything of significant from supporting the Ukraine. They will never be able to rise to our defense even if they had ever agreed to or were inclined to.
You know, I think your right, If and only if Putin had American Conservative rather than Russian values.
But the same could be said of most strong leaders.
That being said I very much withhold any judgement on Putin and his Russian values as I know little to nothing about him and what those values are.
The only thing that bothers me is the utter wast of our involvement. We only stand to lose by supporting the Ukraine against Russia. The Ukraine has nothing we want or could ever need. Russia on the other hand has a whole lot of things we want and will need.
Do you suppose these players, "some of Russia’s former Oligarchs" working against Putin, have taken all necessary precautions... ?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/AlexanderLitvinenkoHospital.jpg
Oil prices have been high. Why does the Russian economy stink?
Why has the Russian stock market cratered by 40% over the last 3 years?
Why has Russia lost the friendship of some of its buffer countries like the Ukraine?
Why did Putin allow himself to get caught placing in the hands of a bunch of drunken derelicts rockets capable of downing a commercial airliner full of completely innocent civilians?
Why has Putin embarrassed himself by disseminating such idiotic lies about the terrorist acts committed with his assistance, all while reading reports about how his derelict terrorist cronies are looting the bodies of his victims?
Oh, yeah, he's some kind of genius. I can hardly wait to see what he'll do next. Whatever it is, he'll screw it up.
But, he'll still have a few American fans, won't he?
By not significantly supporting Ukraine, along with other signals of weakness, we set the world on a path to at least a medium size nuclear war by 2050 or so. Interestingly, the outcome in Ukraine (with us responding only weakly) makes little difference in the larger picture. It is our perceived weakness and lack of will itself that matters.
Really great speech, BTW:
Who knows...but there’s a mess of them involved in Ukraine...and they’re not letting go anytime soon. It’s more than hard ball for them....but in reality it’s how Russian and Ukraine politics has worked for them.
US comes into the fray overplaying their hand with their own ‘Oligarchs”,.... and there’s going to be blood. ..as we see.
The war going on for Ukraines resources is far more than most will read in MSM.....there’s so many actors in this arena of play.
Oh, I thought you were speaking of Russian Oligarchs in Russia...
As long as you’re getting your information from the news sources, and without understanding of how Russia and Ukraine operate in how they run their countries...you will miss what’s going on there entirely.
You hit it wrong when you said Russian economy stinks...by who’s standards are you assessing that? Further Russia is still coming back from the 90’s, which was a whole heck of lot worse.
You’ve already bitten hard on the MSM propaganda....look deeper...and that means work to see what’s happening and behind all this in Ukraine.....and you won’t get it carry Obamas agenda.
Right, they could never rise to our defense so they must suffer under Putin. I don’t think you’re making any sense at all. Because Putin kept them weak doesn’t mean he now has the right to pick them off like low hanging fruit so he can rebuild his Soviet Empire. Putin’s a malicious force in world. So of us get that. You don’t.
You prefer your propaganda straight from Putin. That’s the real inside skinny.
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