Phil - Veterans for Peace & Justice, California 2009
Posted on 07/07/2014 3:25:51 PM PDT by nickcarraway
The North Vietnamese did a number on this guys head...Same as John McCains
We are talking in the context of a John Kerry type in fact a John Kerry supporter talking about a deserter in sympathetic terms to an ideological paper
To say that being a pow will mess you up is wrong
It can mess you up but the story is not that all of these guys are messed up. The opposite is true
So why even try to support this guy?
And why bring down the rest in order to do it
That’s not generous
And if you want to go and bring McCain in, he’s a senator. He can either be same or go home no excuses in that position
It is instructive that i have disagreed with every point that the author makes. But i am on the naughty list because i won’t crucify the old fool...
For the record, for the logical, to say that he is typical of POWs and to say that being a pow will necessarily ‘scramble ones mind’ is not factual and it is not generous to the other POWs who serve to this day with honor
Who said anything about typical. Yes i do find your lack of charity appalling. I generally see a lack of charity exhibited by people with limited life experience. That’s probably not you though.
Again, for the record, when one says being a pow WILL mess up ones mind, the implication, of course, is that anyone who has been a pow is messed up
But that is not true
The fact is that their are many six year Hanoi Hilton survivors who have led healthy productive lives and are not pointing on bergdahl in public
So your original statement the only one we’re talking about is not generous to these men
That’s all
You make too many assumptions. Your just trying to pick a fight. Problem is, my opinion is mine and mine alone. I am not trying to change your opinion. It is what it is.
it is not generous to say that being a POW will mess up ones mind
That’s all
Ok. So being a POW has never ever EVER messed up anybody’s mind ever? Ok.
Butler’s article is very confusing, as is the man. A brave combat flier who was tortured and held in pretty bad conditions, along with most of the other American fliers who were captured. Probably did his best to resist the No. Vietnamese and for this he should be admired and respected.
However, he rambles in his stories and this shows that he failed to study history.
There weren’t “30 million No. Vietnamese” at the time of the war. Demographic numbers ranged from about 16-18 Million NVN in the mid 1960’s, outnumbering the SVN by about 2-3 Million (whence came their overwhelming manpower pool for their PAVN forces).
ALso, Bergdahl was not a traditional POW, captured on the battlefield, but was a mixed up AWOL, if not deliberate deserter.
While we can commisserate with his reportedly bad treatement by the Haqqani Network (not the Taliban per se), to release 5 top Taliban leaders was insane and will lead to the deaths of more Afghanis, Americans, and coalition soldiers. They live to kill and be killed. In other words, they are pathologically insane, and pose both an imminent and long-range danger to civilized people everywhere.
We were not allowed to “win” in Vietnam (a point about which I agree with him) but he apparently supports the Democrats who destroyed our victory in Iraq by pulling out our troops in such a deliberately reckless fashion, as we are seeing today.
I have friends who are/were (deceased) POWS, most of whom underwent not only torture for long periods of time, but who also saw their co-prisoners (both military and civilian), die in front of them (by execution or medical maltreatment or torture).
They have not turned against their country. If nothing else, they have renewed their devotion to protecting America, even as illness and age work against them. One last fight to wage, till their dying days. No whining, no crying, no quitting.
Just once more into the breach, and proud of being able to do it!
I am not supporting Bergdahl or Butler, and neither is DariusBane.
DarisBane could have been clearer by saying “it could mess you up” not “it will mess you up”, but I am at a loss as to why this brings two Freepers to virtual blows. I don’t think the discussion warrants it, but that is just my opinion.
The context I brought McCain into it was specifically as an example of someone not being as critical as they had every right to be on the basis of baggage the person had, such a serving his country in a time of war and being a POW. That context was applied to Phil Butler, not Bergdahl, and certainly not Kerry.
That, in a nutshell, explains why I don't feel the need to exercise forbearance towards Mr. Butler.
He has chosen a side, and it is a side that wishes to destroy this country.
No. He did not use the word could
He said will. I’ve cut and pasted it
Wow
Phil - Veterans for Peace & Justice, California 2009
“You, my web site visitor, are encouraged to understand this as a personal case study of my original socialization and subsequent decision making and personal growth. It is my life transition from warrior to peace and justice activist and to becoming a humanist.”
Phil Butler
Oooh. You got me! Do you debate on the highschool debate team?
I think I opined in my post that he SHOULD have used the word “could”.
In any case, I don’t think it is worth the angst, just my opinion.
Any due respect to our fine former POWs makes pointing out that they’re all not mind- scrambled is worth whatever dopey insults I have to endure
Anyone who wants to say they’re all mentally compromised is wrong
If you think that person shouldn’t suffer any angst for it ...whatever
All “Veterans Against War” organizations (Iraq, Vietnam, etc) make common cause with the radical Left.
While they fought for the right to join groups like those, I assume those that have joined have repudiated their service at some level, and did so of their own free will.
They aren’t allies of mine anymore when they do. I have seen too many of them up close and personally to grant them ideological leeway. They have closed that door themselves and crossed the line.
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