Posted on 06/09/2014 11:22:41 PM PDT by nickcarraway
No.
If it is clear they are hurting, they are stopped. Then the question is answered.
No one can know when the time is until I happens and response is monitored.
I feel you have been obtuse and dogmatic.
It seems your a priori position is death is always inevitable, so just let it happen.
We are not talking heroic measures.
“...if you insist on the use of tubes, IVs, and whatnot, you will make their passing torturous instead of peaceful like it should be.”
This is how you are obtuse. We are not talking about the final stages of death as you only seem to be able to think about.
We are also not talking about people who are cognizant and communicative and can make their own decisions to not eat or take nutrients.
Your posts on this thread are awful, and the insensitivity and ignorance you have displayed about the basic facts, impugning the worst of motives to those of us who disagree with your general opinion is depressing.
Your apparent determination to “one-up” those of us who have had to care for loved ones (spouses and parents) suffering in the last years and days of their lives is disrespectful at the very least.
Haw dare you imply that those of us who disagree with your opinion regarding the complex reality of the dying process are ignorant of the issues involved, embrace euthanasia, or starvation, etc.
Then, even more insulting to our individual intelligences, when confronted with facts and reality, you try to change the subject, trying to shift it to your preferred direction, in an effort to re-direct the discussion to one you think more winnable. Do you really think this is a good way to advance your cause, whatever it is?
This debate over the “right” methods to treat our loved ones who are suffering from fatal illnesses is horrible and disgusting. What kind of hubris gives you the notion that you are qualified or have any special expertise in this matter?
Please have the decency to stop trying to manipulate the argument into one which you appear to think you can win, for you can’t, and you won’t. You lost it, many posts back.
I now consider you in minimum regard, and anything I see posted under your name elsewhere will be tainted by your behavior on this thread.
My prayers now go to Our Father, that Casey Kasem gets kind, caring and loving treatment in these final days, that Hospice is called in to alleviate his suffering, and that his family stop fighting about it all.
Your posts on this thread are awful, and the insensitivity and ignorance you have displayed about the basic facts, impugning the worst of motives to those of us who disagree with your general opinion is depressing.
Your apparent determination to “one-up” those of us who have had to care for loved ones (spouses and parents) suffering in the last years and days of their lives is disrespectful at the very least.
Haw dare you imply that those of us who disagree with your opinion regarding the complex reality of the dying process are ignorant of the issues involved, embrace euthanasia, or starvation, etc.
Then, even more insulting to our individual intelligences, when confronted with facts and reality, you try to change the subject, trying to shift it to your preferred direction, in an effort to re-direct the discussion to one you think more winnable. Do you really think this is a good way to advance your cause, whatever it is?
This debate over the “right” methods to treat our loved ones who are suffering from fatal illnesses is horrible and disgusting. What kind of hubris gives you the notion that you are qualified or have any special expertise in this matter?
Please have the decency to stop trying to manipulate the argument into one which you appear to think you can win, for you can’t, and you won’t. You lost it, many posts back.
I now consider you in minimum regard, and anything I see posted under your name elsewhere will be tainted by your behavior on this thread.
My prayers now go to Our Father, that Casey Kasem gets kind, caring and loving treatment in these final days, that Hospice is called in to alleviate his suffering, and that his family stop fighting about it all.
I am trying to bring clarity to this vs convolution and conflation, hearsay and misunderstanding.
And I have been quite conciliatory in trying to point out we are often talking past each other.
I am being objective.
Your prayer presupposes a predetermined status of Kasem and outcome — imminent death when that may not be the case, you cannot know.
You are praying for him to die and advocating providing the means for his death, whether it is time or not.
No condemnation of anything you have done or decided in your personal life regarding treatment decisions. Please do not think I am doing that.
I have some bad news for you Bud. Your body is attempting to kill you and there is nothing you can do,
The description of Casey Kasem is consistent with him being in an end stage of life. This is clearly not the same situation as existed with, for example, Terri Schindler, who was healthy and could have lived a long healthy life until her husband-in-name-only got a judge to agree to let him starve her to death. Out of respect for Terri, I refuse to call her by her murderer’s name.
Seriously, in life and death situations, you have to look at the facts of each situation as being relevant to that situation and no other.
A person does not have to be in a coma for everything to start shutting down. I think death is probably more peaceful if they do become comatose, but that does not always happen. From the descriptions, Mr. Kasem is in the end stages of dying.
Very well put. Please don’t “cast your pearls before the swine.” Some people refuse to except reality. And will name call and be ugly and unreasonable because they lack maturity.
God bless you!
Agree. Sad situation. I think his kids care about him. His wife took him out of a care facility to another state on a supposed “vacation”? She took him out to gain control after the court was allowing his daughter to direct his care... just his act alone tells me the wife is only concerned about the money.
You need to talk to someone who has been through this. Amazing ignorance. My Father died drowning in fluid... but at home like he wanted... he could not eat or drink the last week of his life. The water was pouring off of him and he had difficulty breathing. My Grandfather the same in the last two weeks before he died. How many loved ones have you had to personally up close and personal watch as they pass on?
The “loving” wife took him out of a qualified care facility in California.. transporting this very ill man to the state of Washington for a supposed “vacation”? I am a conservator over a family member in Alzheimer’s care and there is no way the courts would allow me to to this to them! What a crock!
God? is that you?
So very sorry for your loss... I feel for cry when I think of those I love who have passed. There is nothing that can be done but to make them as comfortable as possible. I must say I was in complete denial when my Grandfather was in hospice dying. He begged me to get him out of there and I was convinced my Aunt did not do the right thing. Actually she did.... the only difference was I ordered the nurse to give him something for pain (she did not as she was convinced these places would just feed him drugs and take his conscious end moments away). She was pretty pissed off at me... but it did ease his pain... After he went through the anxiety night he was peaceful after that and did not speak to anyone except my husband... he always laughed at his bad jokes ; )... He passed away with all of his family who could be there around him. It was amazingly peaceful. My daughter was there...she was 12 years old...it was a life affirming experience for her..she is 30 now.
My Grandmother passed away at home and because her caregiver did not have the DNR (a family member had it).. they had to go through all of the resuscitation protocol. She was gone, but to this day I cannot forget how this violated her remains... my Mother was so very upset when she saw her body. Horrible.
Are you a troll? You seem to accuse all on this thread of being obtuse.. it seems you are trying to inflame.
I am so happy to see this wonderful post has posted twice.
Again.
I am not talking about the very end of life when people are in the process of dying, when nothing can help a person because they are dying.
I am not talking about the last week, days or hours of physiological shutdown.
Well, your inability to distinguish keeping people alive with a feeding tube to the stomach for months or years well before their body shuts down vs the end of life death process does make you obtuse.
Or just dumb. Probably the latter in your case.
What the heck do you think is going on with Casey? Are you his doctor? You need to back off... the kids love their Dad and I am sure the wife loves her Husband... these things are emotional and the wife was wrong to move an ill man so very many miles to another state. She shows instability in what she did.
I know enough about this subject that I can safely say I do not have all the answers and I don’t think anyone else does either
I recommend the following
“How We Die”:
This is an excellent book...Dr Nuland the author recently passed away
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