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To: stevie_d_64; deport; GOPBiker; ohioman
I don't know what you are talking about with Navahos and bag limits.

You ask what part of the west? The west is those lands between the 98th meridian and the Cascades/Sierra Nevada. The 98th meridian is the eastern wet/dry line: To the east is wet and to the west is dry. The Cascades/Sierra Nevada is the western wet/dry line: To the west is wet and to the east is dry.

These lands are called the Great Plains but in the past were often called the Great American Desert. Its the western plains, the intermountain west, and the "islands of trees", which is those lands above a certain elevation that receives rain/snow because the height of the Rockies squeezes(condenses) the last bit of moisture from the air.

The western plains are anchored on the south by the Chihuahuan desert and the intermountain west is anchored by the Sonoran desert.

So we really define the west by geography and rainfall/evaporation rate. The difference between the evaporation rate in San Antonio and Williston is equal to 15 inches of rain.

There's lots of history books that deal with history of the west broadly and narrowly and are organized around dates and events.

But there is the book "The Great Plains" written by the Texas historian Walter Prescott Webb. Published in 1931, it is still considered to be the bible on settling the west and is still in publication because many western colleges and universities use it as a textbook.

It doesn't deal with dates and events. Its a characterization of the west and how man had to change to occupy the lands. It covers geology, geography, flora as in long, short, and bunch grass prairies plus the brush lands. Fauna as in buffalo, prairie dogs, etc. It discusses water and range law. Also the invention of the Colt revolver, variable pitch windmill, and barb wire and how settlement couldn't proceed without these. The book does cover the dam building in the west that occurred prior to publication in'31 but many, many more were built later. Even though the Ogalala aquifer was known at the time, the impact of that aquifer on farming and ranching would not happen until after '31. The book doesn't cover Reserved water rights because in '31 that wasn't controversial. It was only after the courts began re-interpreting that law later in the century that it did affect the west.

It also thoroughly discusses the successes and failures of the methods which Congress used to disperse the public lands in the west. These policies worked well to the east in the wet zone or wetter zones, such as the northwest territories to the west and north of the Ohio river.

Congress obviously had an aversion to turning over large tracts of land in the west to individuals the way Texas, Spain, and Mexico did. Maybe this was egalitarianism or perhaps Congress, which was composed of those from the north and south, was intent on limiting the political and economic power of the west after the west became states in the union.

That's all history and you can't change history.

You should read this book. You can buy it new for $23 at Amazon and used copies are a few bucks. I bought mine used 20 years ago at the Half Price Book Store in Arlington.

Another book you should read is Cadillac Desert because it covers the history and future of water in the west.

44 posted on 05/26/2014 10:05:26 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Ben Ficklin; deport; GOPBiker; ohioman

Well, you look at geographic interfaces, while I look at cardinal directions as points on a compass, west being one direction and not a condition of moisture content/retention or quantity over a period of time...

Got to go back and look closer, I could have sworn you made mention of the Navaho, and bag limits on ATV’ers, muh bad...It was up in one of the earlier posts on this thread...It was late/early this morning and I was a bit bleary eyed from a bit of insomnia...

I minored in History, and did more to enhance my interests in engineering with a heavy physics load...So I feel my outlook is based more upon the mechanics of an issue with a flair for Louis L’Amour in my presentation...

You seem to be more of an absolute-ionist in your accounts...I’ve seen it before (in the past that I can recall here in FR), but kept my peace, to see a better picture of your approach to additional debate...

Just take my words as constructive criticism until I see more data...

The whole premise of these issues we are having with the FEds (land ownership, property rights etc etc etc) is not about anything more than a federal shakedown from a cash strapped government run amok...You know this...

just as it could be argued that personal property ownership is a temporary stewardship from a certain point of view, the same could be said about the government and its desire to “control” as much tangible property and personal liberties it can, for as long as it can get away with...

I always caution people who comment here to be very careful about what they post in a publically accessible forum as this...We are ALWAYS under scrutiny and we are not as anonymous as one would think you are...Even in the backroom messaging system on this website...

No one has a hole card anymore...

And trying to bait people into writing something they shouldn’t is not debate, it is inflammatory, borderline inciting premeditation to do drastic things detrimental to all of us who value free speech, not to condone illegal acts...

We are a lot smarter than that...Guidance, restraint, know where it really is that you can effect change, and course corrections is wiser, creates lasting relationships whether you agree or disagree with someone...

Just my opinion...


45 posted on 05/26/2014 9:33:14 PM PDT by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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