Posted on 05/02/2014 3:12:06 PM PDT by tcrlaf
Ukraine’s National Guard is reportedly storming the eastern town of Kramatorsk. Meanwhile, the army has resumed its special operation in Slavyansk, where two soldiers have been killed.
“The assault is starting now,” a Kramatorsk self-defense activist has told RIA Novosti by phone. Another activist told the news agency that the National Guard opened fire on self-defense forces.
Dozens have been killed or injured in Kramatorsk, a doctor told RIA Novosti. The medic added that the fighting has now stopped and all of those injured have been taken to hospitals in Kramatorsk and Slavyansk. At least two died on the way to the hospital, she said.
(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...
Yeah, I heard the same stuff here about Kosovo, Libya, and Egypt. So please, stop pretending you have any idea who is up to what when the US/EU machine doesn't even come clean on who wrote an email with their name on it.
"Self-Defense activist" = ????
"activist" = An active somebody on one side or another???
"National Guard" = troops guarding an unspecified nation
"self-defense forces" = the forces defending selfies?
So much propaganda in the stories that you can't tell who's who without a secret scorecard.
Babelfish and google translator are of no help.
Yes there is. Can we stay out of this one?
Nothing wrong with posting from biased news sources, but you should at least be able to admit and periodically point out to people who follow your threads that RT is pure Russian state propaganda. Doesn't mean there isn't some good information to be had, just that it all comes through the prism of Russian propagandists.
I actually find it interesting to see the Russian perspective, but let us not kid ourselves about what we are reading. It may be worth posting from MSNBC sometimes too, but we all know that is Democrat Party propaganda.
My impression, and perhaps I am wrong, is that you are firmly in the Putin camp - and that group is generally referred to as Putinista's here and on other conservative sites. Libertarian and Ron Paul sites (and to some extent blogs like ZeroHedge) tend to treat RT as if it were real, unbaised news because they often believe all kinds of conspiracy theories about what is going on in the Ukraine. They think it's all about fiat currency, gold, petro dollars replacing the US dollar as the worlds reserve currency, neo-cons (aka Jews), an Israeli plots, etc. I'm sorry but all of that is a bunch of nonsensical conspiracy theories better left to infowars and sites like it.
It's really pretty simple. Most Ukrainians, not all but a majority, would rather align with the West (even if that means all the bad things that come from associating with the Euroweasels and IMF). Russia just proved, if any proof was necessary, by annexing the Crimea that they are interested in expanding their territory almost no matter what the cost. If you don't believe Russian operatives are in Eastern Ukraine stirring up much of this trouble, you've got blinders on.
There many not be any "good" guys here, but most conservatives are going to be with Ukrainians who wish to lean to the West and get out from under the boot of an increasingly undemocratic (again) Russia. They've lived with a Russian/Soviet neighbor who has starved them, seized their land and generally been a meddling, overbearing threat who is determined to keep the Ukraine in their sphere of influence come hell or high water. Even if the EU is worse in your opinion, the majority of Ukrainians don't have as bad a history with them.
Tcrlaf is a long term member, but has gone full Putinista. Check his posting history. Conservative-Bonafides don’t mean much after Putin’s charm offensive and active measures against our movement.
IOW, you approve of Berkut's use of kidnapping, terror and murder to be rid of the Protestors. Putin would like you to come to Russia and help him beat news editors. Like I tell you in every thread, though you do not care for the truth, the Interim government is, in fact, the same Ukrainian Rada that was elected in October of 2012. There was no overthrow of the government. Yanukovych fled the country to a foreign enemy after he lost all support even from his own political party.
Sadly, that makes our Russian FReepers howl. And then it makes them whine about MSNBC, for some reason (a source where we point out the slant on a daily basis).
Oh, your comment, yeah. Well, you do approve of the Army killing protesters then, right? I mean, you answered a question with a question rather than answering my question so you obviously think that if anyone else anywhere ever slaughtered protesters with Army troops then it's a good thing when the people you support do it.
Thanks for clearing that up !!
Let's hope. But with a CIC that thinks Putin annexed the Crimea from a position of weakness, I dunno.
Yes, stupid, I like the army killing protestors who are able to chant slogans so hard that helicopters drop out of the sky and Ukrainians are spontaneously tortured, shot and dropped in rivers through no human action.
Yeah, but it used to be done with a bit more flair, ala sinkspur and Inspector Harry Callahan. Those were the days.
“”National Guard” = troops guarding an unspecified nation”
National Guard = You can pretty much assume the “National Guard” is the Right Sector-led, Greystone/XE/Blackwater-trained volunteers that many articles have been posted about.
Ukraine can’t really rely on the Army to shoot civilians on order from Kiev, so this is what they have.
Maybe you missed it but Putin invaded Ukraine and annexed part of the country to Russia. The Russians have also been exposed as having troops who fought in Georgia fighting in Ukraine as 'rebels'.
Meaning that Putin's intervention STARTED this thing. The Ukrainians are finally fighting back.
And I say good for them!
“Putin’s savage bloodlust”
The bigger picture presents a MUCH different story, and it goes back to Obama’s aborted attack on Syria, as I have stated many, many times.
Putin isn’t front-running events, he is reacting to them.
And then taking advantage of them. He is outsmarting the Alinsky cabal at every turn.
As I again have said many times, this is Alinsky vs, Machiavelli.
You mean like Russia did in Chechnya?
Sorry, but it wasn't chanting, it was Ukrainian weapons from Ukrainian bases and armories the civilians took over. That's even been in the press releases the Kiev Kiddies put out.
Of course, I understand why people supporting the Kiev coup are upset since they're scared to death some of the stuff the US sent to Syria is on the way to the Ukrainians who don't support them. And I'd bet is is en route since there's no other reason for US ships to be making targets of themselves unless they're waiting on the Coward Muzzie in Chief of the US to tell them to stop and search ships in the Black Sea.
Well sorry Kiev Kiddies, Muzzie in Chief is going to be really busy covering the tracks he left the last time he was supporting freedom loving people who were murdering their fellow citizens.
Too bad, too, I was looking forward to the Tartar SS unit reforming and parading with US equipment as a bird finger to the US Christians who would never support arming yet another Muzzie jihadist scum group.
Now when Ukraine Army units are shelling Kiev, no crocodile tear, ya' hear?
“My impression, and perhaps I am wrong, is that you are firmly in the Putin camp”
Then, you would be incorrect.
I have been looking at the MUCH bigger geo-political picture of what is going on. This is much bigger than just Ukraine, it goes all the way back to Syria and Libya.
There are MANY moving pieces here, and some of them are in the shadows.
That said, RT has usually been Johnny-on-the-spot with it’s reporting. Yesterday, for example, they had stories, videos, pics, and a live blog going of the fighting around Slovyansk at least TWO HOURS before a Western source even put out the first tweet about it.
Thoughtful post, but unfortunately most likely wrong on one important point. Although polling - esp in a country like Ukraine - must be taken with a large pinch of salt, most polls indicated that by the late autumn 2013 the support for the EU treaty had waned, and there was roughly the same support for the Russian customs union as for the EU treaty. But more
Importantly was the large difference in preferences between the western and central parts of Ukraine compared to the southern and eastern districts. That was not surprising given the different histories of these areas. However, the real reason for the different choices may just as well have been economical. The effects of the EU treaty was going to be different for the different areas even if an agreement could have been made with Russia. Thus, a policy that forced Ukraine to chose between Russia and the West was bound to cause severe tensions within
the country. When those tensions brought some of the more extreme forces to the power (in Kiev and in the eastern Ukraine) we had a receipe for disaster. Ukraine may turn into a second Yugoslavia - but this time on the border of Russia. It is quite likely that up until yesterday the large majority of the Ukrainian people wanted their nation to remain intact. Possibly some areas wanted more autonomy, but in all likelihood still be part of Ukraine. But if the latest news are true, will that still be so tomorrow?
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