Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

LET ARIZONA VOTE: AZ SENATOR BIGGS THWARTING CONVENTION OF STATES VOTE
Breitbart Big Government ^ | 22 Apr 2014 | by MARK MECKLER

Posted on 04/22/2014 1:56:15 PM PDT by kingattax

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last
To: Cyber Liberty; TexasFreeper2009
<>How would a new one garner any more respect?<>

Through structural amendments that cannot be ignored, beginning with repeal of the 17th Amendment.

21 posted on 04/22/2014 2:55:21 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie

when our founders called the constitutional convention... you do know that it was originally called to simply make small needed changes to the articles of confederation dont you?

that didn’t keep them from throwing out the articles and starting for scratch and it wont stop any future convention from doing the same.


22 posted on 04/22/2014 2:55:50 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009

This topic, Article V has been bouncing around FR since August 2013, the release of Levin’s book. Have you educated yourself at all on this?


23 posted on 04/22/2014 2:57:00 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009
You really don't know what you are talking about. Did you get that from the Birchers?
24 posted on 04/22/2014 2:57:55 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Resolute Conservative; VerySadAmerican; Nuc 1.1; MamaTexan; Political Junkie Too; jeffc; 1010RD; ...

Article V ping!


25 posted on 04/22/2014 3:01:00 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009

How so?


26 posted on 04/22/2014 3:01:17 PM PDT by ForMyChildren
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie
The Twenty-seventh Amendment passed in 1992 prohibits any law that increases or decreases the salary of members of Congress from taking effect until the start of the next set of terms of office for Representatives.

And it has been ignored ever since. Some court ruled cost of living adjustments weren't covered by such an amendment, and the congress simply gives themselves a cost of living adjustment every year while ignoring the law. And the Supreme court wont hear any case regarding the matter.

Laws only work if people are willing to follow them, and our current political leadership is willing to ignore ANY law that keeps it from accomplishing it's goal, and the supreme court through it's use of the “standing” doctrine, simply denies anyone the right to sue to make the government follow the law.

27 posted on 04/22/2014 3:01:30 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009
You ignored that I spoke of structural amendments. Here are Levin's ideas:

Levin's Amendments.

28 posted on 04/22/2014 3:07:20 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie
Although the states’ representatives to the Constitutional Convention in Philadelphia were only authorized to amend the Articles, the representatives held secret, closed-door sessions and wrote a new constitution. The new Constitution gave much more power to the central government

look under the Revision and replacement section:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

and also

According to Article XIII of the Confederation, any alteration had to be approved unanimously:
[T]he Articles of this Confederation shall be inviolably observed by every State, and the Union shall be perpetual; nor shall any alteration at any time hereafter be made in any of them; unless such alteration be agreed to in a Congress of the United States, and be afterwards confirmed by the legislatures of every State.
On the other hand, Article VII of the proposed Constitution stated that it would become effective after ratification by a mere nine states, without unanimity:
The Ratification of the Conventions of nine States, shall be sufficient for the Establishment of this Constitution between the States so ratifying the Same.

You see... under the previous constitution any changes had to be unanimous.. then it was changed IN THE convention to only 9 of 13 needed.

I am telling you, once they meet... they can do ANYTHING

29 posted on 04/22/2014 3:07:36 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009
I understand your concern over the 2A, but the NRA and other groups are very good at making political life very uncomfortable for anti-2A pols.

There are about 1.1 guns or so for every American.

Not even CN politicians can find LEOs stupid enough to attempt the confiscation of weapons.

Don't worry about the Second Amendment.

As for almost all of the rest of the Bill of Rights, they are gone.

What else do you fear losing from a state Article V convention?

30 posted on 04/22/2014 3:14:08 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009

Yep, you are Bircher influenced. Here is the real history:

1781 & 1783. Congress asks for limited commerce and taxing powers. RI refuses. No amendments to the Articles of Confederation.

March 1785: Mount Vernon Conference. Legislators from MD and VA discuss Potomac navigation and commerce issues. Conferees suggest wider state meeting in Annapolis.

September 1786: Annapolis Convention. Few states attend. Nothing of substance, other than a call to meet in Philly in May of 1787.

February 1787: Congress calls for a convention that was going to happen anyway.

These meetings/conventions were extra-congressional.

Congress had no authority to call a convention, nor commission its members, nor define its purpose.

Congress was an impotent advisory group, which was the reason for the meetings/conventions of 1785 -1787.


31 posted on 04/22/2014 3:17:16 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009

A common trait among Article V opponents is to question the legitimacy of the constitution.

It is irrelevant, but why is that important to you?


32 posted on 04/22/2014 3:18:48 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie

So, existing amendments can be ignored. Are you OK with that? All existing amendments are to be observed. All existing articles of the Constitution are to be observed. They are not being observed. New amendmentss will be, though?

Why?

This is a lot like expecting gun control laws to be observed by gang-bangers. News Alert: They aren’t. Laws exist, and they are ignored. A constitution exists and it is ignored. 20-something Amendments exist and are ignored. Do you see a pattern here? Whatever a section V comes up with will be ignored, if it’s convenient.


33 posted on 04/22/2014 3:19:40 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Red Badger; kingattax

I think it should be held at the Corn Palace in Mitchell, South Dakota. The delegates would board with the local farm families, get up at 4 AM to slop the cows and milk the chickens, and learn about life in flyover country.


34 posted on 04/22/2014 3:20:49 PM PDT by Publius ("Who is John Galt?" by Billthedrill and Publius now available at Amazon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty

See #28 for Levin’s structural amendments.


35 posted on 04/22/2014 3:21:43 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009
I'm sorry, but you don't know what you're talking about. Read the following boilerplate, which I post to these threads to educate the uneducated. (Don't take it personally.)

---

The amendatory process under Article V consists of three steps: Proposal, Disposal, and Ratification.

Proposal:

There are two ways to propose an amendment to the Constitution.

Article V gives Congress and an Amendments Convention exactly the same power to propose amendments, no more and no less.

Disposal:

Once Congress, or an Amendments Convention, proposes amendments, Congress must decide whether the states will ratify by the:

The State Ratifying Convention Method has only been used twice: once to ratify the Constitution, and once to ratify the 21st Amendment repealing Prohibition.

Ratification:

Depending upon which ratification method is chosen by Congress, either the state legislatures vote up-or-down on the proposed amendment, or the voters elect a state ratifying convention to vote up-or-down. If three-quarters of the states vote to ratify, the amendment becomes part of the Constitution.

Forbidden Subjects:

Article V contains two explicitly forbidden subjects and one implicitly forbidden subject.

Explicitly forbidden:

Implicitly forbidden:

I have two reference works for those interested.

The first is from the American Legislative Exchange Council, a conservative pro-business group. This document has been sent to every state legislator in the country.

Proposing Constitutional Amendments by a Convention of the States: A Handbook for State Lawmakers

The second is a 1973 report from the American Bar Association attempting to identify gray areas in the amendatory process to include an Amendments Convention. It represents the view of the ruling class of 40 years ago. While I dislike some of their conclusions, they have laid out the precedents that may justify those conclusions. What I respect is the comprehensive job they did in locating all the gray areas. They went so far as to identify a gray area that didn't pop up until the Equal Rights Amendment crashed and burned a decade later. Even if you find yourself in disagreement with their vision, it's worth reading to see the view of the ruling class toward the process.

Report of the ABA Special Constitutional Convention Study Committee

36 posted on 04/22/2014 3:23:31 PM PDT by Publius ("Who is John Galt?" by Billthedrill and Publius now available at Amazon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty
Whatever a section V comes up with will be ignored, if it’s convenient.

If that is what you believe, then no harm can result from a convention.

37 posted on 04/22/2014 3:23:56 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009
You have just enunciated the single most pernicious myth of early American history. Please read the words of James Madison in Federalist #40 where he explains why the Constitutional Convention did not exceed its mandate from the states.
38 posted on 04/22/2014 3:27:19 PM PDT by Publius ("Who is John Galt?" by Billthedrill and Publius now available at Amazon.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie

I saw it. “Structural Amendments” means nothing when they won’t even observe the structure. I’m not going to engage this argument with you, I’ve seen how it goes in to minutia, and I just don’t have the patience. I have my view on the Article V stuff, and that’s it. You are not moving me, so move on.


39 posted on 04/22/2014 3:27:49 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty
There are actually two constitutions. The one you cite isn't the one that our pols and judges adhere to. Article V is not a panacea, but our only hope.

A Frankenstein Constitution

40 posted on 04/22/2014 3:36:06 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Article V.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-72 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson