College Isn't For Everyone

Townhall.com ^ | April 6, 2014 | Kevin Glass

[OldPossum]

If I were to punctuate the sentence by adding a comma you wrote thusly: “Now would he have been a good engineer etc. That’s open to debate. Everyone performs to their gifts/abilities but this kid was not, with an IQ below 100,” it seems that you are stating that he has an IQ below 100. Do you really think that a person with a sub-par IQ would be capable of handling the math and reasoning skills to graduate with an engineering degree from any college? My guess is a resounding: No, no way.

Without the innate ability to handle advanced mathematics there is not a chance a person such as your friend could handle the coursework. Do you really think that some deficit like that could be overcome by studying? This is a favorite theme on mine. I cannot believe that effort can overcome talent. Otherwise, we could all become famous physicists, singers, song composers, if ONLY we just worked hard enough.

[Ouderkirk]

Sorry, I was doing several things at once, and was commenting while waiting for a report to finish running and on a (pointless) conference call. I wanted to comment back that what sounded right at the time I posted it, isn’t quite what I meant to say.

This kid in question was probably at the 100 to 110 IQ range so the coursework would have been work for him, but not out of reach for completion with a GPA in the mid to low 2’s. He may have made it through if he worked hard.

I appreciate that not everyone is college material and that even people with higher IQ’s may have a hard time with Newtonian Mechanics let alone Floquet theory. If they just aren’t inclined to it. “desire and sheer will” goes a long way but eventually you hit a wall.

I felt bad for this NYPIRG kid as he got sold a bill of goods and had some shaky parental guidance to go with it.

[OldPossum]

Thanks for getting back to me on this.

Your friend was indeed sold a bill of goods on his major but he doesn’t sound like a go-getter who would re-enroll and attain a valuable degree. I still am incredulous that he could succeed in such a demanding major as engineering.

From what I’ve read, the ability to do higher mathematics is an innate ability that is either there or not there. If that is true—and I believe it is—all the effort in the world won’t suffice if the “talent” is not there at birth.

I hope that he can find his way in some capacity but from his experience, he cannot depend upon his parents’ wise guidance. It’s going to have to come from friends such as you.

P.S. I have problems, by the way, with college as a strict job-training exercise but it looks like this is the way the world is nowadays.

[Cronos]

80% to 90% of the world should not be going to college. most jobs don’t need college degrees

[Ouderkirk]

College used to be a growth exercise. The idea was to develop the ability to think, and in some cases teach skills not available elsewhere.

Now it is nothing more than a soggy boondoggle of liberal indoctrination.

The ability to do higher mathematics is somewhat innate. I liken it to learning to speak a new language. You must master the basic functions at each level to progress to the next in order for it to make sense. You can go through the motions up to a point, but once you reach the limit of your previous learning, you’re cooked. There is a spatial component to it too. If you cannot comprehend the concept at hand, you can’t just hit the “I believe” button and move on. Either you understand it, or you do not. That is the nature of mathematics and it is unforgiving.

I told the over-educated but unlearned door-knocker that he would be well served to join the military for a dose of the real world and to gain some skills that people might actually be willing to pay him to use.

The college as “credential” is a direct result of Griggs vs Duke Power 1970. If you get past all the racial BS that is most of what is talked about, the college degree is the method by which companies in light of Griggs can assess your abilities. They have ceded the testing and sorting to the colleges for their own protection.

http://www.course-notes.org/US_Gov_and_Politics/Case_Briefs/Griggs_v_Duke_Power_Co

Early in my career I worked with a great many engineers who never went to college, they went through company run apprentice programs, from technician, to drafter, to specialist, to engineer. Griggs ended that.

[OldPossum]

You are on target with the comment regarding what higher education once was. Unfortunately, it has, as you point out, transformed itself into a huge liberal indoctrination camp. I never had children but if I had, I would have never sent them to most of the universities we have today. Hillsdale College comes to mind.

Your comments on mathematics are in accord with what I have been saying.

Your advice to join the military is excellent. This man would benefit enormously from a structured environment in which the military operates while at the same time benefiting from the numerous opportunities to learn marketable skills.

I have been noting on FR how this unholy situation in which “everyone” has to have a college degree originated, i.e., Griggs v. Duke Power.

It is a shame that this incompetent whiner had to go crying to the courts to get Duke Power to promote him and his buddies, because in the process he created a situation in which the former prestige of having a college degree has been watered down. I graduated from college in 1966 and at that time only 6.5 percent of people 25 years old and older had a college degree or better(masters, doctorate, etc.). Now, it’s somewhere in the vicinity of 30 percent.

I appreciate the “correspondence,” Ouderkirk. You are obviously a man of accomplishment and someone who understands what we’re all facing. You and I would probably get along just fine.