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Ukraine Puts Mothballed Mig-29 Fighter Jets Back in Service
Ria Novosti, Russia ^ | 04/04/2014

Posted on 04/04/2014 8:06:36 PM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

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To: Navy Patriot

“It’s the pilot, the training and the experience, not the plane.”

Like being a professional bowler and using a house ball.


41 posted on 04/05/2014 8:39:18 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: GeronL

Hundreds, but that doesn’t we have the manpower to maintain and fly them.


42 posted on 04/05/2014 9:42:51 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: drunknsage

Oops.


43 posted on 04/05/2014 3:44:52 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: Sooth2222

Perhaps I was wrong about using Chernobyl but it would make a good Wonder Woman episode. B-)


44 posted on 04/05/2014 5:24:20 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: drunknsage
What? Do you moonlight as a retarded comic book villain or something?

B-) Reminds me of what something Vector (from "Despicable Me") would do. B-D
45 posted on 04/05/2014 5:26:14 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: dfwgator

“Polish RAF pilots had lower quality planes than their British counterparts during the Battle of Britain, but had a higher kill ratio. It’s the pilot, not the plane.”

That was 73 years ago. This is now. Ever seen an F-22?


46 posted on 04/05/2014 9:30:53 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: dfwgator

Check Google or elsewhere before I do. The Poles flew either Hurricanes or Spitfires, as well as what they had from their original Polish Air Force (perhaps P 39 Aercobras).

I’ll get back here with some infor on this issue.


47 posted on 04/05/2014 10:29:21 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

I’m backkkkk!

Poles flew their own PZL P.11 and P.7 in Poland at the beginning of the war. Took some to other countries with the fall of their country.

Flew French Caudron C 714 and MS 406 fighters.

Flew British Hawker Hurricanes (300 - 303 Squadrons). Then Got Spitfires and P 51 Mustangs.

British nightfighters: Defiants, Beaufighters and Mosquitoes.

In Russia they flew Yak 1 and Yak 9’s.

Best records were obtained in the Hurricanes and Spitfires during the Battle of Britain and over France.

Google “Polish Air Force in WW2” and you’ll get a lot of information on what they flew and how well they performed.

Extremely brave men.


48 posted on 04/05/2014 10:46:51 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: goldstategop

Ukraine is in no condition to fight a war with Russia.


They aren’t in any condition to fight a war with Monaco.


49 posted on 04/06/2014 9:53:06 AM PDT by chessplayer
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To: dfwgator

“It’s the pilot, not the plane.”

Yes and no. There is still only so much a pilot can do to overcome the tech disadvantage. Otherwise one could claim a WWI biplane is the equal of an F-22.

The technology is useless without the pilot, but that doesn’t make the pilot the only consideration.

The expression “It’s the pilot, not the plane.” makes a great movie line. But movie war tactics are a poor way to go to real war.


50 posted on 04/06/2014 11:09:59 AM PDT by LevinFan
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To: Nowhere Man

Worst.idea.ever.

The advantage that the Ukrainians have is that they could engage in long term guerilla warfare against Russia in the event of an occupation, something that would make dealing with the Chechens to be a happy memory in comparison. Particularly in Western Ukraine where there is zero love for the Russians.


51 posted on 04/06/2014 1:41:40 PM PDT by RedForemanRules
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To: goldstategop

Yes but they have enough partisans to make an occupation largely untenable. Russian soldiers returning in coffins arent greeted anymore favorably.


52 posted on 04/06/2014 1:45:50 PM PDT by RedForemanRules
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To: RedForemanRules

Yeah, you’re right, I was unfamiliar with the European weather patterns, a Chernobyl blast would backfire.


53 posted on 04/06/2014 3:43:27 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: LevinFan
Yeah, maybe it is silly to compare a Sopwith Camel to an F-22, although maybe there is always room for luck. At the bare minimum, you'd probably need at least a MiG-15/17, Sabre Jet or a CF-100 Canuck to engage with any hope. Myself, I woulds not go any less than at least an F-4 but an F-14 is more like it.

I think we get too cocky with all this high tech, many times, the more complicated the plane (or whatever is in question), the more Achilles heels you may have. Then again, like I said in the beginning, there could be that Albanian, Cuban or North Korean pilot that jumps you in a MiG-17 and it could be it. Electronics can fail, you need to maintain it and if you run out of parts, the F-22 becomes useful only as a static display for children to crawl into at the local park. Air technology for manned aircraft has pretty much plateaued for the most part say form 1960/65 onward much like firearms tech did in the early 20th Century with the exception of plastics. I could be wrong in the eyes of some but that's generally my take.
54 posted on 04/06/2014 3:57:45 PM PDT by Nowhere Man (Mom I miss you! (8-20-1938 to 11-18-2013) Cancer sucks)
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To: Navy Patriot
It’s the pilot, the training and the experience, not the plane.

Don't forget motivation, the willingness to get into the fight, of which the Polish pilots had plenty. A pilot can be as trained and experienced as you want, and can have an excellent plane. None of that matters squat if he refuses to engage.

Look at the Iraqi pilots at the start of the first Gulf War, who fled to Iran rather than face US forces.

55 posted on 04/06/2014 4:06:02 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Yeah. I heard they were remaking Top Gun.


56 posted on 04/06/2014 4:15:30 PM PDT by Starstruck (If my reply offends, you probably don't understand sarcasm or criticism...or do.)
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To: Starstruck
Yeah. I heard they were remaking Top Gun.

Will they actually have straight people in the leading roles this time?

57 posted on 04/06/2014 4:16:06 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Nowhere Man

As it stands, an F22 pilot has to face several gen4 opponents to get a workout. F22 isn’t magic, but it is a superior craft that only the foolish take lightly.
Information technology has been the
biggest boon for aviation since the 60s and 70s. Now they have a heads up helmet, with intigrated tracking and ID data. If one plane sees a missile, all of them see it, track it, and know who it is engaging. And it is done with a simple icon on the helmet display.

And rumor has it their newest weapon is a radar almost impossible to detect, and able to pulse as an emp weapon to jam or fry an incoming missile.


58 posted on 04/06/2014 8:20:59 PM PDT by LevinFan
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Does Ukraine have adequate spare parts on hand? They might experience a back order from the Mikoyan factory, maybe...just guess’in.


59 posted on 04/07/2014 5:14:40 AM PDT by Fitzy_888 ("ownership society")
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To: GeronL
How many older mothballed fighters could the US return to service?

I saw a P-51 at the Cody airport the other day and it looked far more effective than any F-35 I haven't seen.

60 posted on 04/07/2014 9:15:19 AM PDT by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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