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Serbia’s office for KiM: "Obama, there was no Kosovo referendum"
In Serbia Independent News ^ | March 27, 2014 | Tanjug

Posted on 03/27/2014 6:24:46 PM PDT by Ravnagora

President Barack Obama on Wednesday sought to debunk criticism that America has acted hypocritically in condemning Russia’s actions in Ukraine, dismissing any comparison to the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, MSNBC reported.

The president also argued that the comparison between Crimea and Kosovo makes no sense.

“Russian leaders have further claimed Kosovo as a precedent, an example, they say of the West interfering in the affairs of a smaller country … But NATO only intervened after the people of Kosovo were systematically brutalized and killed for years.”

“And Kosovo only left Serbia after a referendum was organized not outside the boundaries of international law, but in careful cooperation with the United Nations with Kosovo’s neighbors,” Obama added. “None of that even came close to happening in Crimea,” MSNBC reported.

Office for Kosovo and Metohija recalled in tonight’s statement that a referendum on the subject of independence was not conducted on the territory of Kosovo and Metohija, as well as that Albanians, Serbs or any other ethnic group that lives in Kosovo and Metohija did not participate in it, TANJUG reported.

The office points out in its statement that the unilateral independence of Kosovo and Metohija was proclaimed on February 17 2008 at the meeting of the so-called Kosovo Assembly, “which was not preceeded by any referendum of the citizens of Kosovo and Metohija, whether on a part or on the whole territory of Kosovo and Metohija”.

“The Office for Kosovo and Metohija, without intent to engage in the debate of great powers of the nature of the international law, wants to eliminate the confusion caused by certain statements about Kosovo and Metohija, in the context of the Crimea. The statement that could have been heard at the EU-US summit in Brussels ‘Kosovo has left Serbia after a referendum was organized which was not outside international law, but with careful collaboration with the United Nations and Kosovo’s neighbbours’, in our opinion, is unintended mistake or a consequence of error in the translation,” says the statement.

It also says that the UN, OEBS, “or any other international organization did not participate in the declaration of independence, niether with advice or confirmation”.

Earlier, Serbian historian Nebojsa Malic told RT that it could be the case that Obama’s speechwriter just “mistook the non-existent referendum in Kosovo with the referendum in Montenegro that took place in 2006.”

“If that is the referendum they were referring to, first of all, it is just baffling that they can’t tell apart Kosovo and Montenegro. Secondly, that is not exactly a paragon of democracy in international laws either,” Malic said.

“I am really not sure what sort of point they were trying to make, but you can’t just make up your own facts to boost your own argument. That is ridiculous,” he concluded.

There was one independence referendum in Kosovo in 1991. Its results were recognized by just one UN member, Albania.

*****


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: crimea; kosovo; russia; serbia

1 posted on 03/27/2014 6:24:46 PM PDT by Ravnagora
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To: joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; vooch; ...

2 posted on 03/27/2014 6:27:17 PM PDT by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora

That photograph of BHO2 really makes him look like what he is: an Indonesian.


3 posted on 03/27/2014 6:27:35 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE USA OF USA CITIZEN PARENTS)
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To: SatinDoll

btt


4 posted on 03/27/2014 6:29:07 PM PDT by Jane Austen (Boycott the Philadelphia Eagles!)
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To: Ravnagora

It is pretty obvious that the Muzzies would have voted to secede so a vote would have been pointless. There was a such a rush to bomb Serbia you think Obama logically would consider maybe there wasn’t any time for a ballot after all.


5 posted on 03/27/2014 6:30:19 PM PDT by ObamahatesPACoal
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


6 posted on 03/27/2014 6:31:08 PM PDT by Nachum (Obamacare: It's. The. Flaw.)
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To: Ravnagora

I would love to see Serbia re-assert itself in Kosovo. That way at least some good can come out of this miserable Putin situation.


7 posted on 03/27/2014 6:36:52 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Ravnagora

I am really not sure what sort of point they were trying to make, but you can’t just make up your own facts to boost your own argument. That is ridiculous,” he concluded

This sums up the entire Democratic platform.


8 posted on 03/27/2014 6:47:09 PM PDT by griswold3 ("Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8".)
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To: Ravnagora; joan; Smartass; zagor-te-nej; Lion in Winter; Honorary Serb; jb6; Incorrigible; DTA; ...
Obama “Russian leaders have further claimed Kosovo as a precedent, an example, they say of the West interfering in the affairs of a smaller country … But NATO only intervened after the people of Kosovo were systematically brutalized and killed for years.” The Mombasa MF ought to review the NYT coverage of Kosovo. Back when their "independent Marxist" hero Tito was running the show, the NYT often decried the savage excesses of the Albanians against the wonderful communist leader and his wonderfully progressive government. The minute the commies were out, the NYT ran the same stories, just juxtaposing "Albanian," and "Serbian."

Yesterdays barbarous terrorist criminals were miraculously transformed into intrepid Albanian "Freedom Fighters," as they poured in to destroy churches, monasteries, Serbian villages, rape nuns, burn their convents and fought to ethnically cleanse Kosovo of Serbians.

But then, those rascally Serbians had the nerve to actually fight back and bring the wrath of the West down on themselves to take Kosovo away and hand it to the Albanians. Putin is, IMNVHO, exactly correct. If NATO can take Kosovo from Serbia (without a referendum,) why can't Russia take back the Crimea with one? Turnabout is fair play.

But forget foreigners for a moment. Does our POTUS actually not know there wasn't any Kosovo "referendum"? Does this man know anything? Can he say anything intelligent or even intelligible that is not put before him on a teleprompter?

What was 53% of the electorate (of those who bothered to show up ... which means 26.5% of the eligible voters) thinking when they chose this turd?

9 posted on 03/27/2014 9:05:30 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: Ravnagora

Wow - imagine if this had been GW.

My guess is this won’t make any of the the major US news outlets...


10 posted on 03/27/2014 10:15:06 PM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: Kenny Bunk

“But then, those rascally Serbians had the nerve to actually fight back and bring the wrath of the West down on themselves to take Kosovo away and hand it to the Albanians. Putin is, IMNVHO, exactly correct. If NATO can take Kosovo from Serbia (without a referendum,) why can’t Russia take back the Crimea with one? Turnabout is fair play.”

Such hypocritical remarks by you demonstrate how you are just as much an apologist for rape, robbery, torture, murder, genocide, and other crimes against humanity as were the German NAZIs, the Muslim allies serving as Germany’s SS troops, and the Stalinist Russian regime. You totally disregard the fact that the extremists in both camps, so-called Christians and Muslims, are guilty since millenia ago of the most atrocious crimes and war crimes in defiance of the condemnations of people on both sides who want only peaceful relations with each other. You also omit altogether the role of the Serbian government with inciting the Muslims and others in Kosovo to resist the Serbian’s inhumane crimes perpetrated against them before they organized to defend themselves militarily.

To further your pathetic attempt at propagating disinformation, you omit how the lawfully elected legislature of Kosovo exercised the powers it had under the laws of the Yugoslavian government to separate the already autonomous government of Kosovo while remaining a federal state of Yugoslavia.

You omit how the government of Serbia intensified the criminal persecution of the inhabitants of Kosovo, the ethnic cleansing of tens of thousands of Kosovars, including the same rapes and murders about which you hypocritically complain.

You omit how Serbia likewise refused to halt its criminal acts of persecution in Kosovo while also refusing to negotiate with the leaders of Kosovo to end the conflict without the people of Kosovo resorting to armed resistance to such crimes by Serbians.

You omit how the United Nations and NATO have formal obligations to act as peacemakers in situations like this, where extremists on both sides must be forcibly restrained from combatting each other and perpetrating crimes against humanity upon their respective populations.

You omit how Russia obstructed often efforts to restrain the Serbians and Bosmian Serbs from continuing with the atrocities in the rape camps, mass murders, and ethnic cleansing.

The United Nations and NATO performed their obligations and duties to stop the war crimes being committed by all parties to the conflict, reestablish peaceful civil affairs and government, and reconcile the belligerents to whatever extent the belligerents would accept. In the case of Kosovo, Serbia remained intransigent about recognizing the Yugoslavian legal authority for Kosovo to elect a separate status as a state within the Yugoslavian federation. The legislature elected by the voters in Kosovo voted for separation from Serbia and federation with Yugoslavia. On the later occasions this was also accomplished lawfully under the supervision of the united Nations, OSCE, and NATO.

Consequently, it is an atrocious lie to claim for one second that the lawful intervention of NATO and the United Nations to compel an end to the violence Serbia imposed upon the people of Kosovo is somehow supposed to be comparable to Russia’s invasion, conquest, and annexation of Ukrainian territory in the Crimea.

“Turnabout is fair play.”

Since Russia’s invasion and annexation of the Crimea is a breach of its agreement to respect the territorial integrity of the Ukrain, a grave breach of international law and international peace, and in no way comparable ot the situation in Kosovo’s status in the Yugoslavian federation; the situation is not a turnabout or fair play at all. Instead, it is just more malicious disinformation used as false propaganda to incite more ethnic cleansing, mass, murders, and a Russian war upon its neighbor states.


11 posted on 03/28/2014 1:46:45 AM PDT by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: WhiskeyX

I had relatives involved in satellite imagery analysis at the time.

The Serbs are not any conservatives’ fight. The Putin and Serb apologists on FR can GFYSs.


12 posted on 03/28/2014 2:10:18 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: rbmillerjr

Yes, a brother-in-law’s ex-wife was assasinated by them because she was a UN-NATO police/penal administrator.

Both sides had people committing war crimes, and the UN-NATO authorities made the effort to bring those of both sides to justice and stop both sides from making war upon each other. NATO certainly did not annex Serbian territory the way in which Russia has committed the same crime we prosecuted and punished the Third Reich officers of Germany.


13 posted on 03/28/2014 2:48:22 AM PDT by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: Ravnagora

“I am really not sure what sort of point they were trying to make, but you can’t just make up your own facts to boost your own argument. That is ridiculous,” he concluded. “

But why can’t they make up their own facts? Zero and the Rats do it all the time on just about every topic. One could use the above quote for a myriad of Zero/Rat statements!

Pathological liars don’t think they are lying......


14 posted on 03/28/2014 3:50:37 AM PDT by Mrs. B.S. Roberts
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To: WhiskeyX

Someday Serbia will retake kosovo—it may be in 10 years or 20—or even 50—but it will happen. Maybe with Russian support and when that day happens it will be a bad day for muslims. What we have seen is a look into the future when Russia will dominate Europe. The EU will be more like the old Warsaw Pact. That will also be a bad day for Mulims in Europe—they will face many hardships.


15 posted on 03/28/2014 4:05:31 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Ravnagora
“I am really not sure what sort of point they were trying to make, but you can’t just make up your own facts to boost your own argument. That is ridiculous,” he concluded.

LOL LOL LOL LOL

Oh, yes he can! Who's ever stopped him?

16 posted on 03/28/2014 5:04:19 AM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1!)
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To: rbmillerjr

Au contraire. Serbia is the last stronghold against US?SAUDI sponsored Islamic fundamentalism taking over in the Balkans. Take those blinders off there buddy.


17 posted on 03/28/2014 8:23:24 AM PDT by eleni121 ("All Along the Watchtower" Book of Isaiah, Chapter 21, verses 5-9)
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To: eleni121

Serbia is the backwater beeyotch of Russia.

Russia is a paper tiger only capable of attacking the defenseless.


18 posted on 03/28/2014 8:35:59 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: Ravnagora; Kenny Bunk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M42BAJAk84&feature=player_embedded#at=161

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9tX8onPsnM&feature=player_embedded#at=86


19 posted on 03/28/2014 2:42:21 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: rbmillerjr; WhiskeyX
At no time would I presume to suggest that Serbia's internal affairs concern the United States.

The Serbs are not any conservatives’ fight

And neither is jumping in to help the Albanians. The outrages committed by the Albanians when Tito favored them and extended a measure of autonomy to Kosovo in order to suppress the Serbs, were duly reported by the NYT. I particularly direct your attention to the campaigns against Serbians directed by the police and militias which were dominated by Albanians. However, the Serbians, as stalwart as they are in the cause of the Christian West against Islam, their reaction to the Albanian terrorism was equal ... or on occasion worse than the acts perpetrated against them.

Why then take the side of the Albanians against the Serbs? Americans came into the Balkan ball game in the bottom of the 7th. This was after a multi-million dollar PR campaign masterminded by no less than Ruder and Finn (google that).

As far as Albania itself goes, I should think one might have a hard time taking a country seriously whose biggest industries are heroin and stolen cars, and who rave on about "The Greater Albania," which doubtless includes parts of the US. Talk to Interpol about Albania.

As far as being a "Serb apologist," so be it. They have a case. It's also true that we don't have a dog in their fight with the Albanians, or anyone else.

There are no angels in Balkan Wars. We picked a side. Consider that we
(a) we should have stayed out of it.
and (b)The side we picked doesn't automatically become the angels.

Far from it. Try and remember that we are dealing with the flotsam and jetsam of the Ottoman Empire. Muslim Bosnians used Muslim Albanians as their hitmen in a 400-year campaign of oppression against the Christian nations of Serbia and Montenegro, a campaign that did not end until 1913, which isn't that long ago.

20 posted on 03/28/2014 8:58:13 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: rbmillerjr

How were you brainwashed? HS Social Studies?


21 posted on 03/29/2014 4:45:23 PM PDT by eleni121 ("All Along the Watchtower" Book of Isaiah, Chapter 21, verses 5-9)
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To: Ravnagora

Serbs to Obama, “You Lie!”


22 posted on 03/29/2014 4:45:59 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ObamahatesPACoal

Don’t forget that McCain was the biggest cheerleader for bombing Serbia.


23 posted on 03/29/2014 4:46:46 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator; neverdem; narses; Nachum; SunkenCiv

More important than ANYTHING else, Clinton (Hillary!) NEEDED Bosnia/Kosovo/Serbian (ex-Nazi-white-evil-bad-guys-Christians!) immediatey after the impeachment was over to flush the news cycle with “we are good guys” propaganda.

The Sebian/Kosovo bombing was never about doing anything good or valid. Nor “justice” or “peace” or “right”. ANd not even about fixing problems that have festered in wounds created in 700 AD.

ALWAYS was bout Clinton’s propaganda and publicity.


24 posted on 03/29/2014 5:07:49 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: Kenny Bunk

“As far as being a “Serb apologist,” so be it. They have a case.”

The only case the Serbs made were viewed by satellites, showing Serbs slaughtering thousands in mass executions and mass burial sites.

If they wish to imagine themselves the great Christian saviors of Europe, they must act like Christians, not the savages they claim to wish to eradicate by Nazi Holocaust methods.


25 posted on 03/29/2014 5:35:15 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: eleni121

“How were you brainwashed? HS Social Studies?”

Says the idiot spewing RT BS all over FR. Take your Russian/Serb sensibilities and shove them.


26 posted on 03/29/2014 5:37:11 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: rbmillerjr
If they wish to imagine themselves the great Christian saviors of Europe, they must act like Christians, not the savages they claim to wish to eradicate by Nazi Holocaust methods.

Absolutely agree. Might we also not require the same from the Bosnians, and especially the Albanians?

There are no angels in the Balkans. The United States taking one side or the other does not change that side into angels.

Imagine this scenario: illegal and quite legal aliens become the dominant demographic in a sovereign state. After a period of autonomy, and then independence supported by foreign powers, they wish, vote, or fight to annex that state to their own neighboring country, dominating, confiscating the property, exiling, or worse all those not of their particular demographic.
Texas/Mexico? Kosovo/Albania>

27 posted on 03/30/2014 6:31:52 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: Kenny Bunk

“Might we also not require the same from the Bosnians, and especially the Albanians?”

Absolutely. But, let’s not equivocate the mass murder of thousands by decree of Serbian government officials with acts by non-sanctioned individuals.

“Imagine this scenario: illegal and quite legal aliens become the dominant demographic in a sovereign state. After a period of autonomy, and then independence supported by foreign powers, they wish, vote, or fight to annex that state to their own neighboring country, dominating, confiscating the property, exiling, or worse all those not of their particular demographic.”

And this is exactly what the Russians have done over time in Ukraine. They shipped off thousands to Siberia during Soviet era purges. The then sent many more thousands to replace these inhabitants from Russia proper.

Now, they wish to hold “elections”, which are entirely illegal according to the Ukraine constitution, inside of Ukraine. Using the “replacements” of Russian extraction to give the ignorant-to-history crowd of useful idiots, cheap, though invalid reasoning to declare Crimea...desiring to be part of Russia.


28 posted on 03/30/2014 11:52:35 PM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: rbmillerjr
.....Using the “replacements” of Russian extraction to give the ignorant-to-history crowd of useful idiots, cheap, though invalid reasoning to declare The Southwest part of ? ... Kosovo part of ?"

There is a lot more rationalization available for a Russian Crimea than there is for an Albanian Kosovo ... or a Mexican Texas. Yes, the Russians, first under the Czars and then the Communists, continually removed the Tartars to resettle more Russians in The Crimea. But our own history has the Cherokee Removal in its pages, which oddly parallels the Russian treatment of the Tartars.

You are absolutely correct about the rest of the Ukraine, and for that matter the Baltic Republics. To top it off, The Russians also partitioned Poland with the NAZIs, and permanently seized Karelia from the Finns, Finland also being a former possession of the hegemonic Czars.

At the risk of echoing Pat Buchanan, what does this lugubrious history have to do with the United States? More important, what ought we to do for those in these contested lands on the edge of Europe to insure "fairness" for their inhabitants? Does this give the Russians the moral right to redress the grievances of the Cherokee? Does it give the Mexicans the right to reclaim Aztlan, that vast area which was home to a few thousand Mexicans of European descent, and is now home to many millions of Mexican mestizos who have arrived in the last 70 years?

29 posted on 03/31/2014 8:40:56 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: Kenny Bunk

“There is a lot more rationalization available for a Russian Crimea”

Please explain this rationalization for Russia to simply annex Crimea from a sovereign country. I really want to hear this.

Do you agree with this? Do you support this?


30 posted on 03/31/2014 9:02:40 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: rbmillerjr
Perhaps it was wrong to include The Crimea in the Ukraine after the demise of the Soviet Union when it was an integral part of Czarist Russia and then the USSR. It was definitely wrong for the Russians to unilaterally annex it after agreeing not to. However:

Perhaps it was wrong to include Eastern Poland in the USSR and then Russia, as it was probably a mistake to annex German territory to Western Poland. However:

Perhaps it was wrong to allow the Soviet Union and then Russia to keep Karelia.

Perhaps it was wrong of the Soviets to flood Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia with Russian emigrants.

It was definitely wrong for Bosnian militias to drop artillery on their own area and blame it on Serbian Militias. It was definitely wrong for Serbians to torture and murder Bosnians.

It was definitely wrong for President Jackson to ignore the Supreme Court and exile thousands of Cherokees to Oklahoma.

Perhaps it was wrong for the Allies to give The Tyrol to Italy and in the next war to give Istria to Yugoslavia.

You may vote to spend American Blood and American Treasure to 'right any wrong' you espy in any of the above. Simply gather support and get a Declaration of War from Congress.

I'll do the opposite and perhaps the more righteous protagonist shall emerge vindicated.

31 posted on 03/31/2014 9:54:01 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: Kenny Bunk

All of your arguments are.....”...but this was also wrong, and this was also wrong...”

That is really no argument at all.

“You may vote to spend American Blood and American Treasure to ‘right any wrong’”

A weak straw man argument. I have never said anything about sending troops to any part of Ukraine...and further, nobody in our government has.

Now, if a NATO country is attacked, by treating we will help defend said NATO country.


32 posted on 04/01/2014 4:06:03 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: All

...by Treaty...rather


33 posted on 04/01/2014 4:46:52 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: Ravnagora

blah blah blah....... nothing happens

Possession trumps words and claims of international law.

What seems to be is not what is

The posturing is to later claim Putin was stopped.

Meanwhile, he keeps Crimea which was his goal all along.

End result...... win win


34 posted on 04/01/2014 4:54:36 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: rbmillerjr

So I take it then you were against the war against Serbia?


35 posted on 04/01/2014 4:24:02 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: Kenny Bunk

I have no sympathy for the Serbs due to talking to family members who saw the satellite imagery of the atrocities.

But you are correct, I did not support a war against the Serbs.

And are you against the annexation of Crimea by the Russians ?


36 posted on 04/02/2014 3:24:24 AM PDT by rbmillerjr (Russians to the Left of me, Useful Idiots to the Right...)
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To: rbmillerjr
And are you against the annexation of Crimea by the Russians ?

Yes I am.
I do think that the eventual solution will be a Federation of the Ukraine within the Russian sphere of military and economic influence. The US and NATO, especially this administration, do not really impress me as contesting this.

The Russians are passed masters at drawing artificial borders, as they did in Khazakstan, so that included ethnic groups (e.g. in that case, The Armenians) will have a perpetual grievance against the central government, making it easier for Russia to control both.

OTOH, I am not impressed with the official government of the Ukraine, IMNVHO, their corruption and inefficiency has had quite as much to do with this mess as the Russians who capitalized on it.

37 posted on 04/02/2014 7:22:06 AM PDT by Kenny Bunk ( The Republican Party is very sick . Hold all contributions until we see who picks up the patient..)
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To: rbmillerjr

this “satellite photo” business is often repeated. Noone has ever shown any satellite photos of the kind you describe. Madelein Albright stood at a screen after “Srebrenica” saying that satellites showed this and that. Satellites showed nothing. And if your relatives saw and interpreted them that’s one thing but the camera did not show any such thing as a massacre or atrocities. If so, show the satellite photos that are so clear that Albright could see who did what. Unfortunately, there is nobody in this discussion who has the supporting material to challenge this.


38 posted on 04/11/2014 3:31:24 PM PDT by gershwin
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