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Crimeans vote on union with Russia as troops build up rapidly
Reuters live coverage of events around the world. ^ | 16 March 2014 | Brian Tracey

Posted on 03/16/2014 9:58:15 AM PDT by Errant

SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine/KIEV (Reuters) - Crimeans voted in a referendum on Sunday on whether to break away from Ukraine and join Russia, with Kiev accusing Moscow of rapidly building up its armed forces on...

(Excerpt) Read more at live.reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: bhorussia; crimea; crimeareferendum; putin; ukraine; war
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Breaking...
1 posted on 03/16/2014 9:58:15 AM PDT by Errant
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To: Errant

Amazing what fear can do.


2 posted on 03/16/2014 10:00:26 AM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Errant

All Russia needs now is a legal fig leaf to make its covert troop presence legal.

The referendum will be a prelude to Russian troops openly displaying official patches on their uniforms again.

And they were invited by the Crimeans to protect them.


3 posted on 03/16/2014 10:04:54 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: EagleUSA

Have you read the tweets? Start reading them upward from 02:00 EDT. I’m surprised they didn’t bring their chickens to vote also.

http://www.reddit.com/live/3rgnbke2rai6hen7ciytwcxadi/


4 posted on 03/16/2014 10:09:55 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Errant

The turnout for the referendum in Crimea at 5.p.m. local time was 70%. The vote will be closed at 8.p.m. Fabrizio Berto, a member of the European Parliament, who came to Crimea to monitor the referendum, said: “I have seen no violations there. People have been voting as usual. Nothing out of the ordinary. Everything is like at elections in Italy. The way it should be everywhere.”


5 posted on 03/16/2014 10:11:10 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: 1_Rain_Drop

The official referendum turnout to be valid is 50+1%. I think the reported figure is genuine.

Option One should get better than 80%. Its all over but you knew that already.


6 posted on 03/16/2014 10:12:46 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: EagleUSA
"Amazing what fear can do"

Yep.


7 posted on 03/16/2014 10:19:58 AM PDT by icwhatudo (Low taxes and less spending in Sodom and Gomorrah is not my idea of a conservative victory)
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To: icwhatudo

No, no, no. That picture is of a third world location.


8 posted on 03/16/2014 10:21:49 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (Screw the farmers. I can get everything I need at the grocery store.)
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To: Errant

Why would any non-suicidal resident of the Crimea vote to remain in the Ukraine now that Vladimir Putin has made it clear he intends to invade the Ukraine and smash any opposition to a Russian takeover?

One way or another, the Crimeans will be under Russian rule. Their only choice is if they want to be dead or alive when the Russian flag is raised over Kiev. Choosing life means choosing to appease the Russian bear today with a Yes vote.

If life in the new, expanded Russia does not meet with the Crimeans’ approval, they can mount an organized opposition movement — not the kind of ad hoc radical uprising by a crazed mob of arsonists that took place in Kiev and wound up igniting Vladimir Putin’s wrath, which is now leading NOT to freedom and democracy but to the crushing of the entire Ukraine.


9 posted on 03/16/2014 10:31:11 AM PDT by Bluestocking
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To: goldstategop
"But ethnic Tatars - Sunni Muslims who make up 12 percent of Crimea's population - said they would boycott the vote despite promises by the regional authorities to give them financial aid and proper land rights."

In USA, they only gave obamafoams.

On a serious note, what were the other people bribed with?

10 posted on 03/16/2014 10:37:14 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: Marguerite

How many hours is Crimea ahead of the US.?

Thanks,


11 posted on 03/16/2014 10:38:59 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Bluestocking

I believe the real question will be if Russia has its sights on Eastern Ukraine as well.


12 posted on 03/16/2014 10:40:27 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Errant

Looks like they understand the value of strongly worded “threats” from Obama and Kerry...


13 posted on 03/16/2014 10:43:00 AM PDT by trebb (Where in the the hell has my country gone?)
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To: Errant
How many hours is Crimea ahead of the US.?

Thanks,

It's on the Eastern European Time (EET) 7 hours ahead of Eastern Standard Time. Currently they haven't gone back on daylight savings time, so they are temporarily 6 hours ahead of EDT. They are 1 hour behind Moscow time and 2 hours ahead of Greenwich Mean Time.

14 posted on 03/16/2014 10:47:30 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Errant
I believe the real question will be if Russia has its sights on Eastern Ukraine as well.

I'm fairly certain that since Kiev is the seat of Ukrainian independence, they'll take Kiev and with it, the rest of the Ukraine.

Then Putin will promise that's all he wants, and after all, it was to protect ethnic Russians in Crimea. And Horseface Kerry will get a "treaty" signed stating that's all Putin wanted, and will wave it around in victory, claiming "Peace in our time!"

History repeats itself. Last time, it was The Sudatenland, this time, Ukraine. Same 5#it, different era, only the names and geography have changed.

Mark

15 posted on 03/16/2014 10:48:25 AM PDT by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: icwhatudo

I believe Russia would do a better job of handling thugs like that than our race baiting JustUs department did.


16 posted on 03/16/2014 10:48:44 AM PDT by soycd
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To: Paleo Conservative; Marguerite

A couple more hours until the polls close at 8:00 PM their time then.

Thanks!


17 posted on 03/16/2014 10:50:03 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Errant; Bluestocking
I believe the real question will be if Russia has its sights on Eastern Ukraine as well.

I think they have their sights on the whole of the former Warsaw Pact countries that used to be Soviet satellites. I've gotten reports that the Russians are sending in lots of men and supplies to Moldova which is located between Romania and Ukraine.

18 posted on 03/16/2014 10:51:25 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Errant

They’re starting already

http://www.businessinsider.com/pro-russian-demonstrators-burn-books-storm-buildings-in-eastern-ukraine-2014-3


19 posted on 03/16/2014 10:53:51 AM PDT by 1_Rain_Drop
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To: EagleUSA

Are they voting for YES - A or YES - B? NO does not appear on the referendum.


20 posted on 03/16/2014 10:54:30 AM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: Paleo Conservative
I've gotten reports that the Russians are sending in lots of men and supplies to Moldova which is located between Romania and Ukraine.

That could may be a strategic move to cut off support of insurgency based out of Western Ukraine. It does seem to indicate they are indeed going after Eastern Ukraine tho.

21 posted on 03/16/2014 10:55:51 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Ingtar
NO does not appear on the referendum.

:-)

22 posted on 03/16/2014 10:56:33 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Errant

They have their sights on all of The Ukraine, and every other former Soviet territory.


23 posted on 03/16/2014 10:57:00 AM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: Errant

We encourage Kosovo to break away, then get upset when Russia tries to do the same in Crimea. What’s good for the goose, right?


24 posted on 03/16/2014 10:57:06 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

I suppose what we did in Kosovo is ok, then.


25 posted on 03/16/2014 10:59:29 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: dfwgator

Yep, ‘em chickens are coming home to roast alright. O is getting paid back with his ‘own coin’...


26 posted on 03/16/2014 10:59:52 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: soycd

Those two clowns would never dare to be standing there if they were in Russia.

But in the US they have privileged status.


27 posted on 03/16/2014 11:02:02 AM PDT by 353FMG
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To: dfwgator; Errant
We encourage Kosovo to break away, then get upset when Russia tries to do the same in Crimea. What’s good for the goose, right?

We weren't in any way trying to add Kosovo as a territory or state in the US. There's a very big difference!

28 posted on 03/16/2014 11:02:21 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Errant

I think is plus 2 ahead of GMT time. That makes 9 hours ahead of EST.


29 posted on 03/16/2014 11:02:47 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: 1rudeboy

Of course not....But it’s the height of hypocrisy on our part to suddenly be the “Conscience of the World” against Russia.


30 posted on 03/16/2014 11:03:38 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

“We encourage Kosovo to break away, then get upset when Russia tries to do the same in Crimea. What’s good for the goose, right?”

The internationally recognized right to self-determination is satisfied when a defined group is able to exercise its own choice regarding its political future. On July 2010, the International Court decided that the declaration of independence of Kosovo did not violate general international law, basically because the international law contains no prohibition on declarations of independence. WHY would be any different for the Republic of Crimea, who declared already its independence from Ukraine prior to the referendum?


31 posted on 03/16/2014 11:04:11 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Ingtar

“Are they voting for YES - A or YES - B?”

FALSE.

The voters are given two choices on the ballot during the Crimean referendum; the voters being able to choose only one:

1) in favor of the reunification of Crimea with Russia as a part of the Russian Federation

2) in favor of restoring the 1992 Constitution and the status of Crimea as a part of Ukraine.


32 posted on 03/16/2014 11:08:00 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite
From your selection:

According to current principles of state practice, most recently used to analyze the secessions of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, and Macedonia, minorities within existing states can secede as a means to gain self-determination only when they meet the following six criteria for self-determination: (1) the existence of a distinct, self-defined group within a state that overwhelmingly supports separatism; (2) a legitimate claim to the territory; (3) a pattern of systematic discrimination or exploitation against a sizable, self-defined minority; (4) the central government's rejection of compromise solutions; (5) the prospect of the territory and people concerned becoming a viable state; and (6) the effect of granting or refusing self-determination on regional and international peace, the effectuation of authoritative governmental processes and respect for human rights, and the impact on both regional and global value processes.

33 posted on 03/16/2014 11:08:07 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: 1rudeboy; dfwgator
I suppose what we did in Kosovo is ok, then.

The Serbs were engaging in ethnic cleansing. The US didn't annex Kosovo as a territory or colony.

34 posted on 03/16/2014 11:08:31 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Marguerite

I don’t think there is much doubt which way this vote is going anyway.


35 posted on 03/16/2014 11:09:27 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Marguerite

The question should have been solved in 1994. Crimea only belonged to Ukraine because of a drunken Khrushchev trying to atone for his sins as Stalin’s man in the Ukraine.


36 posted on 03/16/2014 11:11:31 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Paleo Conservative; dfwgator
We weren't in any way trying to add Kosovo as a territory or state...

Kosovo didn't border the US or offer an all weather port either.

37 posted on 03/16/2014 11:12:12 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: dfwgator

“The question should have been solved in 1994. Crimea only belonged to Ukraine because of a drunken Khrushchev trying to atone for his sins as Stalin’s man in the Ukraine.”

Correct!


38 posted on 03/16/2014 11:12:23 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Marguerite; Errant
I think is plus 2 ahead of GMT time. That makes 9 hours ahead of EST.

Wrong! I've been to all the time zones involved. It is 2 hours ahead of GMT, but GMT is just 5 hours ahead of EST not 7. They haven't gone on daylight savings time yet, to it is currently only 6 hours ahead of EDT.

39 posted on 03/16/2014 11:13:04 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Marguerite; dfwgator

The Crimean Tatars don’t want to be under the control of Russia.


40 posted on 03/16/2014 11:14:07 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Errant

“I don’t think there is much doubt which way this vote is going anyway.”

Not the shadow of a doubt.

61% of the population are ethnic Russians and 79% declare Russian as their mother tongue. 98% of the population speak Russian, which the official language in Crimea.


41 posted on 03/16/2014 11:15:58 AM PDT by Marguerite (When I'm good, I'm very good, but when I'm bad, I'm even better)
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To: Bluestocking

Life might be better under Putin—More jobs—more support for army-Navy. There may be a bright spot for the area—I believe there are good reasons to vote for Russian Union.


42 posted on 03/16/2014 11:16:35 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Paleo Conservative

I don’t care what Muslim Tartars want.


43 posted on 03/16/2014 11:18:10 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Errant
Kosovo didn't border the US or offer an all weather port either.

So what? Back in the era of the European empires, the British especially would use local conflicts such as this as a method of adding to their empire. The US wasn't involved in the former Yugoslavia for economic or territorial gain.

44 posted on 03/16/2014 11:18:15 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Errant

Been hearing that there is a lot of voter fraud going on..gee, maybe they should have Photo ID’s oh wait that would be racist


45 posted on 03/16/2014 11:18:57 AM PDT by Sarah Barracuda
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To: Marguerite

The ballot asks two questions and leaves no option for a “no” vote. Voters are simply asked to check one of two boxes:

Do you support joining Crimea with the Russian Federation as a subject of Russian Federation?

And:

Do you support restoration of 1992 Crimean Constitution and Crimea’s status as a part of Ukraine?

That Constitution declares that Crimea is an independent state.


46 posted on 03/16/2014 11:19:53 AM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: Paleo Conservative

No we were interested in establishing a Wahhabist base for our Saudi “friends” in Europe.


47 posted on 03/16/2014 11:19:59 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Paleo Conservative
So what?

Back in the era of the European empires, nuclear weapons weren't available.

48 posted on 03/16/2014 11:20:46 AM PDT by Errant (Surround yourself with intelligent and industrious people who help and support each other.)
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To: Ingtar

Question—What will Ukraine do? Will they attack? Crack down on Russians not living in Criemea? Will they re-arm? Will they cut the gas pipes? Try to cut off Criemea in some way? The ball is now in their court. Today and tomorrow are the most important time for Russia—Ukraine, the world. Fighting could become the spark that could set off the whole of Europe and the world.


49 posted on 03/16/2014 11:21:14 AM PDT by Forward the Light Brigade (Into the Jaws of H*ll)
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To: Errant

More hope and change. So glad Bush is gone; the world only had conflict happen because Bush made everyone hate the United States.
So glad things are different now.


50 posted on 03/16/2014 11:21:17 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Obama lied; our healthcare died.)
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