United Methodist Bishop drops all charges..calls for end of “disciplining”..who perform gay weddings

Patheos ^ | March 10, 2014 | John Shore

[C19fan]

Last October Dr. Thomas Ogletree (above), a clergyman in the United Methodist Church (UMC), performed the wedding ceremony for his gay son. UMC pastors are not supposed to marry gay couples, family members or otherwise. They’re instead supposed to believe what their Book of Discipline (which is to the UMC what, say, the Tax Code Book is to the IRS) tells them to believe, which is that “homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching.”

.......................................................

So guess what happened this morning instead of the trial of Thomas Ogletree? The UMC bishop overseeing the trial dropped all charges against the pastor. And he didn’t just drop them, either. He turned them into a huge brass bell he used to ring what will likely be remembered as the death knell of the anti-gay policy of the largest mainline Christian denomination in the world.

[AppyPappy]

Our current pastor also has a problem with Hell. I imagine many of them do. It makes Santa Claus sound “mean”.

Oh, I mean God.

[Rapscallion]

Soon real Christians will have to turn away from the abominations being created by “mainline” denominational churches going rogue and leaving Jesus’ Christianity behind.

And so it was in Sodom and Gommorah.

[aimhigh]

The UMC does not ordain gays, does not perform same-sex marriage and the church is officially pro-life.

Maybe in your area. I've seen gay and lesbian UMC pastors in Oregon. The UMC is like the USA under Obama. On paper, we have the constitution, but reality is sadly going down hill quickly.

[HiTech RedNeck]

To frame the person who prays it as “repeater” is to beg the question your own self. Watch about smuggling assumptions into the picture.

Yes, SBC Baptist leans either Calvinist or Calminian, with genuine salvation being permanent. That’s a robust affirmation of the destining power of God, which so happens to be true.

There’s a reason Baptists see a lot of miracles. The more ways God is praised, the more ways He blesses.

[Cyber Liberty]

I find this news shocking. I’m shocked the UMC *ever had* a prohibition against homo weddings. UMC is about as lost as a church can get.

[lexington minuteman 1775]

All the UMC in all of obamas 57 states can OK this God still holds the final vote and he has said its an abomination. So good luck to the Bishops et al. who have swallowed the LGBT line hook line and sinker.
there is a reason that narrow is the gate into heaven.
Freegards
LEX

[crusher]

Sorry, the battle is over and lost. As soon as a “faith” entity entertains the consideration of the benefits/legitimacy of sinful living, it has ceased to be Christian.

The only way I could see this as being otherwise is if the apostate bishop is denounced, removed and defrocked instantly. which of course he will not be. Not from the denomination that hosts an abortion celebration in their national headquarters annually on Roe v. Wade Day.

[only1percent]

The UMC’s doctrinal legislative body is international and proportional to regular congregants, and the liberal U.S. delegates have been outvoted on the issue by the growing foreign delegations. Given that they can’t change the demographics nor persuade the foreign (heavily African) delegates, my guess is that the U.S. church will separately caucus before the next convention and adopt a U.S. (pro-gay ordination and -marriage) rule, and present it as a fait accompli to the foreign delegates, who will face the hard choice of expelling the U.S. church (and losing its considerable financial support) or tolerating its local rule.

[Hostage]

John Lennon was young and reckless with much of his political thinking. Politically he was naive and unrealistic.

John was a tortured soul since he was a little adorable boy. Rent the film ‘Nowhere Boy’ to see a very accurate portrayal of his young life, of how the tragic and abusive conflict of his parents was thrust on him at such as early and tender age. It’s a great teaching aid for parents in divorce to show how parental conflict damages young children.

People close to John (Ringo) say he had come around to Christ and was entering a period of his life where he would devote himself to Christ. Sadly his life was taken before we witnessed the full conversion.

Younger people and their naive thoughts and actions can frustrate us who are older. I won’t judge them.

As we grow older and wiser, it’s amazing how much more we appreciate Jesus Christ and his infinite wisdom; it’s just amazing how awareness grabs hold. So I let young people make their mistakes and try to be there for them when they start to realize they may have made mistakes.

John was loved by so many people even with all his flaws. I am sure he would have led enormous numbers of people to Christ had he lived to express his new found devotion.

[ZULU]

Methodist, Episcopal, Presbyterian, are all POST-CHRISTIAN Churches.

[ZULU]

UMC formed when the Methodist Church and a group of weird pacifists called the United Brethern, linked arms in the 50’s. Since then, the UMC has been officially a pacfist church.

[rusty schucklefurd]

re: “It is vacuous. It completely skirts the issue of whether the “repeater” really thinks they need a Savior. If you don’t think you need a Savior, what’s the point?
But of course, I am colored by my Methodism where you can always Fall from Grace so the prayer doesn’t ensure anything.”

The “sinner’s prayer” is only a suggested prayer. It mentions the minimum requirements for salvation as given in the New Testament:

1- Admitting one’s helpless, sinful condition before a Holy God.
2- Professing belief that Jesus is God’s Son, and that salvation of one’s sins are only through His atoning sacrifice of Himself on the cross, and that Jesus rose from the dead.
3- Asking for God’s forgiveness of one’s sins and confessing Jesus as Lord and Savior of one’s life.

Any prayer is “vacuous” if the one saying it doesn’t really mean it - only God alone knows the heart of the one praying - right? Before one prays the “sinner’s prayer”, the one sharing his/her faith must explain what the prayer means before asking someone to pray the prayer. Since we do not have God’s insight into people’s hearts, if someone says they understand it and are willing to pray that prayer - who are we to judge whether or not they are sincere? Leading them through the prayer is not an automatic given that what they prayed was meaningless - right?

re: “Also every Baptist I have met recently come across as Reformed. They define “Once Saved Always Saved” as classical “Perseverance of the Saints”. Strange.”

I agree with you on that one. The SBC is going through a “Calvinist” controversy. I am aware that in the SBC’s history, that many were Calvinistic, but that is by no means universal among Southern Baptist churches. I can tell you that this “Reformed” Baptist movement is splitting churches apart.

In my city, at least one “reformed” SBC church refuses to allow any pastors preach at their church if they aren’t Calvinist in theology. There have been at least two SBC churches split over the issue as well.

I’ve been in the SBC all my life and I never heard the doctrine of predestination (the Calvinist view of predestination) that I hear from the “reformed” Baptists today. I did hear of “security of the believer” (the “once saved always saved” doctrine). But, that was never taught to me as being because we were “Calvinist”, but that our salvation is based on God’s promise to save all those who call upon Him for His forgiveness and profess faith in Christ Jesus.

Since our salvation cannot be earned by our righteousness, our security is also based on His promise to save us completely, now and forever - not because of our righteousness, but, because of His promise to do so.

The so-called “reformed” Baptists are tearing churches apart with their insistence on believing that God has already pre-determined who will be saved and who will be damned. That the individual really has no free will in acceptance or rejection - God has already fixed that before time began (in the Reformed/Calvinist view). They think that if you have the ability to respond to God’s gift of grace to you through Christ, that that somehow takes away from His sovereignty and His glory.

I do not believe that we have no ability to respond to God. I do not believe that God has fixed it so that only certain individuals are called to salvation, and others condemned to hell. That is not the God that I know from the Bible. I do know there is predestination, but not of the Calvinist interpretation. There are even some Reformed Baptist/Calvinists who believe the infants who die do not go to heaven, but that some actually go to hell because God has already ordained it so. I believe that is a terrible slap at the graciousness of God and at His character.

I really don’t wish to argue Calvinism with anyone as it is pointless and only generates heat, not light. I have dear brothers as friends who are Calvinist in their outlook, but we just choose not to argue about it. Instead we serve together Christ’s church and do what we can to tell others about the Gospel. But, I have seen it tear friendships and churches apart. That grieves my heart.

[thackney]

So when CT passed their gun bill, the whole US was lost?

This wasn’t the general council, this is a New England Bishop trying to push his agenda.

[jagusafr]

There’s a UMC in every wide spot in the road here in Texas. Methodist preachers were the first circuit riders. The Methodist church started its downhill slide when it merged with the United Brethren to create the United Methodist Church. I am a solid Wesley Methodist and there are many of us still fighting for the heart of the UMC. The people in the pews are MUCH more conservative than the “leadership”.

[aimhigh]

Check out this page from an Oregon UMC church: Inclusive ministries

And don't miss this one: Oregon-Idaho Reconciling United Methodists

Not a word about repentance or salvation through Jesus Christ.

[thackney]

I am a solid Wesley Methodist and there are many of us still fighting for the heart of the UMC.

BTTT

[MacNaughton]

A Fundamentalist cartoon portraying Modernism as the descent from Christianity to atheism, first published in 1922 and then used in "Seven Questions in Dispute" by William Jennings Bryan.

Basically, the "mainstream protestant" churches are ...
1. Lutheran (all flavors)
2 Presbyterian (all flavors)
3. Episcopal (all flavors)
4. United Church of Christ

The UMC and Baptist (many, many different flavors with the SBC by far being the largest) generally are not considered as part of the old mainstream protestant denominations.

Top 25 U.S. churches reported in the 2012 Yearbook of American & Canadian Churches

DENOMINATION 2010 % of top 25
Members
Catholic 68,202,492 46.2
Southern Baptist 16,136,044 10.9
United Methodist 7,679,850 5.2
Mormon-LDS 6,157,238 4.2
Church of God in Christ 5,499,875 3.7
National Baptist - U.S.A. 5,197,512 3.5
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 4,274,855 2.9
National Baptist – America 3,500,000 2.4
Assemblies of God 3,030,944 2.1
Presbyterian (U.S.A.) 2,675,873 1.8
African-Methodist-Episcopal) 2,500,000 1.7
National Missionary Baptist 2,500,000 1.7
Lutheran - Missouri Synod 2,278,586 1.5
Episcopal 1,951,907 1.3
Pentecostal Assemblies 1,800,000 1.2
Churches of Christ 1,639,495 1.1
Greek Orthodox - America 1,500,000 1.0
United Church of Christ 1,058,423 0.7

Growth From 1960 to 2011
DENOMINATION %
RCC +62%
SBC +66%
UMC -29%
ELCA -19%
AoG +498%
PCUSA -35%
TEC -43%
UCC -48%

As other Freepers have pointed out, the UMC will go through a schism over the issue of homosexuality. But the denomination will continue with a majority of conservative parishes. Those parishes advocating "social justice" and which have female pastors will most likely leave the UMC when the schism arrives. The African churches are growing and vote conservative in the quadrennial General Conference.

The SBC is continuing to fragment. Many excellent observations by Freepers. The national committees of the SBC have been working for several years to find a new name for the denomination so they can drop "Southern" from the title because of its percieved negative connotation. For those who don't know the history, the Baptist churches in the pre-Civil War South were ostracized by the Baptist Sunday School Board in the North over the issue of slavery. So the "Southern" Baptists schismed and formed the SBC. The latest SBC schism occurred in 1991 when the CBF, Co-operative Baptist Fellowship, split off over the issue of women's ordination - they approved of it. POTUS #39 JEC's church left the SBC to join the CBF.

The SBC is engaged in several social/cultural war issues at the moment. Their national committees recommend non-binding resolutions on ...

1. racism - advocating more outreach to black communities
2. illegal immigration - supports amnesty
3. homosexuality - opposed to ordination and marriage
4. abortion - still opposed to it

More and more SBC churches are leaving the "SBC" affilation off their front yard signs. I attend a Baptist church which voted to affiliate with the SBC and CBF. Not sure what the future holds there.

10/06/1968 – Troy Perry, a former pastor in the denomination of the Church of God of Prophecy, founded the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) in Los Angeles, CA. He had been married but his wife left him when she discovered his copy of the book, The Homosexual in America by Donald Webster Cory. The MCC is an international Protestant Christian denomination with 222 member congregations in 37 countries. MCC sees its mission being social as well as spiritual by standing up for the rights of minorities, particularly those of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender people (LGBT). MCC has been a leading force in the development of Queer theology.

[SECURE AMERICA]

Their punishment will come later. Those that mock the Word of God will reap what they sow.

[fwdude]

And the vacuous “sinner’s prayer”.

Agreed. It's no more effective than the Catholic canned "prayers."

[wontbackdown]

I was baptized in the Methodist Church at age 12. In the past 20 years I only attended sporadically because I felt that the sermon was being directed against me - the message was always anti-conservative, pro-abortion, pro-gay, etc. I finally took the plunge and went church shopping. Some people would make you believe that conservative churches are full of illiterate backwoods snake-handlers. We found a local Baptist church that is very high-tech. They have multimedia screens during the service, a band, an orchestra, a choir, and comfortable movie theater style seats. There are no rituals, just music and the sermon. On our first visit, when the pastor railed against abortion, I knew that I was home. Other than Jesus, my favorite bible character is John the Baptist. He wasn’t afraid to identify sin when he saw it and call for repentance, even though it cost him his life. A far cry from the “anything goes” attitude of the liberal churches.