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Smith & Wesson protests California gun law (won’t sell its newest firearm in California)
Washington Post ^ | January 24, 2014 | By Reid Wilson

Posted on 01/24/2014 1:25:25 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee

One of the nation’s largest gun manufacturers won’t sell its newest firearm in California because of a state law that requires firearms to imprint a unique stamp on bullet casings.

Smith & Wesson said Thursday it would not sell a semiautomatic pistol in California because of the law, signed in 2007 by then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) and implemented last year. It’s the second big gun manufacturer to pull some of its products out of California in the last several months.

The gun companies said the law, which requires each firearm to imprint a so-called “microstamp” on bullet casings, impose unbearable cost burdens. The manufacturers also said the microstamps don’t reliably achieve the goal of providing evidence to law enforcement authorities.

In a statement released to the Los Angeles Times, Smith & Wesson CEO James Debney said the law would prevent Californians from having “access to the best products with the latest innovations.”

Only newly designed semiautomatic handguns and updated or modified older models are covered under the 2007 law. The microstamp would leave a tiny etching identifying the make, model and serial number of the weapon that fired a bullet. . .

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; california; guncontrol; guns; rkba; smithandwesson; smithwesson
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The firearm makers associations have sued California over this law.
1 posted on 01/24/2014 1:25:25 PM PST by Brad from Tennessee
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To: Brad from Tennessee

I read an article recently that hypothesized that America was in a liberalism bubble. It suggested that the recent elections of out-right card carrying communists in New York and Washington state indicated the bubble was about to burst. I certainly hope they’re right and California rejoins the union as a sane state.


2 posted on 01/24/2014 1:33:40 PM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: Brad from Tennessee

So much for the second ammendment


3 posted on 01/24/2014 1:34:35 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

But will they stop selling to LEO in California? Stop servicing LEO guns as well?


4 posted on 01/24/2014 1:37:16 PM PST by DBrow
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To: Brad from Tennessee

So, S&W, how’d kowtowing to the lefties work out for ya?


5 posted on 01/24/2014 1:38:27 PM PST by Fido969 (What's sad is most)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

How about a law that dictates that bullets must have the name of an anti-liberty socialist on them?


6 posted on 01/24/2014 1:38:42 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

Stop selling the guns to the police in California. Let them try to find them elsewhere.


7 posted on 01/24/2014 1:41:10 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: DBrow

“...But will they stop selling to LEO in California? Stop servicing LEO guns as well?...”

The article I read on Fox said that LEO organizations are exempt from having to have the microtechnology. However, EVERY gun manufacturer needs to quit selling in CA to EVERYONE; LEOs included and quit providing parts and service.
Just isolate the miserable communist POS completely.


8 posted on 01/24/2014 1:41:24 PM PST by lgjhn23 (It's easy to be liberal when you're dumber than a box of rocks.)
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To: lgjhn23

Having all the gun manufacturers stop shipping to CA may have been the goal, consequences or no.


9 posted on 01/24/2014 1:50:15 PM PST by DBrow
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To: DBrow

***Having all the gun manufacturers stop shipping to CA may have been the goal, consequences or no.***

Back in 1982, the VOTERS rejected Prop 15, to ban the sale of handguns in Cali.

Since that day, the politicians have been trying to find all sorts of ways to get around the WILL OF THE VOTERS, one bite at a time.


10 posted on 01/24/2014 1:56:43 PM PST by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

Actually, the article is, as usual for these types, misleading. S&W is still submitting it’s handguns to the state for “safety” testing, but the state is refusing to take them as they do not have the microstamp feature.

The nuts running this state got what they wanted.


11 posted on 01/24/2014 1:57:56 PM PST by TheDon (Inside Every Liberal is a Totalitarian Screaming to Get Out.)
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To: lgjhn23

That’s the way it should be. Anyone organizing anything?


12 posted on 01/24/2014 1:58:05 PM PST by Bogey78O (We had a good run. Coulda been great still.)
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To: DBrow

LEO’s are exempt from the legislation.


13 posted on 01/24/2014 2:02:25 PM PST by dirtymac (Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country)
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To: dirtymac

“LEO’s are exempt from the legislation.”

That does not mean S&W has to do business with them. Let’s pressure CA from all over. Barrett stopped servicing their rifles in CA.


14 posted on 01/24/2014 2:05:39 PM PST by DBrow
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To: Brad from Tennessee

The worst thing is, the pigs are EXEMPT from this law. Why don’t THEY want the people to know who shot them? And if it makes the guns less reliable for them, TOUGH. If the people have to live with unreliable guns, so can the pigs.


15 posted on 01/24/2014 2:05:40 PM PST by 2harddrive
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To: DBrow

“But will they stop selling to LEO in California? Stop servicing LEO guns as well?”

The answer, I hope, is YES!!


16 posted on 01/24/2014 2:06:32 PM PST by 2harddrive
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To: lgjhn23

“The article I read on Fox said that LEO organizations are exempt from having to have the microtechnology.”

SO: Only the PEOPLE will be stuck with defective guns, not the pigs!


17 posted on 01/24/2014 2:10:56 PM PST by 2harddrive
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To: dirtymac

“LEO’s are exempt from the legislation.”

I would love to see a law requiring LEOs to abide by the same gun laws as non-leos. In NY that would mean no mags over 10 rounds, no “assault weapons”, no full auto, etc. They would pizz their pants like they did when the law first passed and they werent exempt. They fixed that QUICK.


18 posted on 01/24/2014 2:11:26 PM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: 2harddrive

“If the people have to live with unreliable guns, so can the pigs.”

Pigs? That’s hippie talk.


19 posted on 01/24/2014 2:14:06 PM PST by Brooklyn Attitude (Things are only going to get worse.)
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To: 2harddrive; DBrow
“But will they stop selling to LEO in California? Stop servicing LEO guns as well?”

The answer, I hope, is YES!!

That's exactly what Ronnie Barrett did!

Mark

20 posted on 01/24/2014 2:15:21 PM PST by MarkL (Do I really look like a guy with a plan?)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

because primers can’t be punched out and destroyed and firing pins can’t be swapped out or modified by even the dumbest criminals.


21 posted on 01/24/2014 2:19:44 PM PST by RC one
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To: DBrow

“..But will they stop selling to LEO in California? Stop servicing LEO guns as well?..”

Barrett Firearms did. They outright flat refused to do business - sales, parts, repairs - with CA because of the .50 ban.


22 posted on 01/24/2014 2:23:41 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: FatherofFive

Might become the 2nd annulment.


23 posted on 01/24/2014 2:25:07 PM PST by Scrambler Bob ( Concerning bo -- that refers to the president. If I capitalize it, I mean the dog.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

This site is insured by Smith & Wesson.


24 posted on 01/24/2014 2:29:06 PM PST by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: DBrow

The law has the potential to disarm California LEOs

No manufacturer is going to comply, because it affects their entire operations.


25 posted on 01/24/2014 2:37:54 PM PST by editor-surveyor (Freepers: Not as smart as I'd hoped they'd be)
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To: Fido969

“...kowtowing to the lefties ...”

Fido, I don’t think the same crew that did deals with Clinton back in the day is running S&W anymore.

If I remember correctly, they were owned for a time by a British firm (anyone clarify, please jump in)... Then that fell through, and they were re-acquired by an American firm.


26 posted on 01/24/2014 2:39:55 PM PST by NFHale (The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)
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To: editor-surveyor

Huge victory for gun grabbers. Look for other blue states to follow suit. Next? How about micro-stamping for all semi-auto rifles. This would be a backdoor AWB.


27 posted on 01/24/2014 3:03:39 PM PST by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: RC one
because primers can’t be punched out and destroyed and firing pins can’t be swapped out or modified by even the dumbest criminals.

As I recall, it was claimed that the microstamping wears out after a hundred rounds - especially if the owner makes no effort to keep the primer area free of fine dust and sand.

But, of course, the purpose of the law is not traceability of the brass. It's to further complicate ownership of firearms, and to limit their legal supply. Illegal supplies are not affected - one can drive an 18-wheeler full of firearms across the CA state line.

Additionally, anyone can come to a range and collect as much empty brass as he cares, with all the microstamping, and leave it at the crime scene. The police will happily execute a 3am arrest, in best traditions of Stalin's NKVD, on an entirely innocent person - this will buy the real criminal an extra week.

28 posted on 01/24/2014 3:07:08 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Bogey78O

Definitely time for an initiative to throw out the so called “Unsafe Gun Act”.


29 posted on 01/24/2014 3:22:13 PM PST by TheDon (Inside Every Liberal is a Totalitarian Screaming to Get Out.)
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To: TheDon

hopefully they stop selling guns to the police departments in CA too


30 posted on 01/24/2014 3:26:14 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Jim Robinson
100%!!! mine too...
31 posted on 01/24/2014 3:28:53 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: SampleMan
How about a law that dictates that bullets must have the name of an anti-liberty socialist on them?

Millions of bullets already do.

32 posted on 01/24/2014 3:29:06 PM PST by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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To: Fido969

Everybody forgets Clinton’s deal but I don’t!


33 posted on 01/24/2014 3:29:24 PM PST by maxwellsmart_agent
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To: Greysard

“Additionally, anyone can come to a range and collect as much empty brass as he cares, with all the microstamping, and leave it at the crime scene. The police will happily execute a 3am arrest, in best traditions of Stalin’s NKVD, on an entirely innocent person - this will buy the real criminal an extra week. “

You have raised the death nell issue with this nonsense. No court is going to allow evidence of a crime via microstamping because there is simply no way to trace the shell casing to the weapon simply because it’s found at the scene. No one could say for certain that it was actually the cartridge case from which the bullet that killed someone came. Cops will have another “throw down” to use to try and convict someone that they don’t like.


34 posted on 01/24/2014 3:46:07 PM PST by vette6387
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To: Brooklyn Attitude

In my opinion, carve outs such as these are a clear violation of the equal protection clause in the 14th amendment.


35 posted on 01/24/2014 4:02:40 PM PST by taxcontrol
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Fight the Leftist Gun Grabbers.
Support Free Republic.

36 posted on 01/24/2014 4:16:51 PM PST by RedMDer (Happy with this, America? Make your voices heard. 2014 is just around the corner. ~ Sarah Palin)
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To: Brad from Tennessee
Whats to prevent someone from picking up casings from a range then commit a crime and leave some of the casings around for police to pickup.
37 posted on 01/24/2014 4:36:45 PM PST by bikerman (Obama! if his lips are moving he's lying.)
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To: vette6387
No court is going to allow evidence of a crime via microstamping because there is simply no way to trace the shell casing to the weapon simply because it’s found at the scene. No one could say for certain that it was actually the cartridge case from which the bullet that killed someone came.

Plenty of people are cooling their heels in prisons, convicted by the weight of circumstantial evidence. Per Wikipedia:

Circumstantial evidence is evidence that relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact—like a fingerprint at the scene of a crime. By contrast, direct evidence supports the truth of an assertion directly—i.e., without need for any additional evidence or inference.

On its own, it is the nature of circumstantial evidence for more than one explanation to still be possible. Inference from one piece of circumstantial evidence may not guarantee accuracy. Circumstantial evidence usually accumulates into a collection, so that the pieces then become corroborating evidence. Together, they may more strongly support one particular inference over another. An explanation involving circumstantial evidence becomes more valid as proof of a fact when the alternative explanations have been ruled out.

Circumstantial evidence allows a trier of fact to deduce a fact exists.[1] In criminal law, the inference is made by the trier of facts in order to support the truth of assertion (of guilt or absence of guilt).

In practice, this is yet another tool for prosecution to apply pressure to the defendant and to extort confession of some guilt from an innocent person. The prosecution can always connect several seemingly unrelated facts into an "obvious" conclusion that Mr. X was the killer. All too often the justice system is not interested in finding the real killer - it is instead interested in solving the crime quickly, getting the conviction, and moving on. It all depends on morality of people who are doing the job. People like Mike Nifong and Angela Corey do not leave much hope to the accused. Juries are carefully selected among the most malleable people; judges can favor one side against the another - all this was seen aplenty in last years.

38 posted on 01/24/2014 4:45:49 PM PST by Greysard
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To: 2harddrive

Off The Pigs!

Damn I haven’t said that in 40 years.

Anyway Cali Gov. should not get any guns what so ever.


39 posted on 01/24/2014 4:47:15 PM PST by kennyboy509 ( Ha! I kill me!!!)
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To: kennyboy509

40 posted on 01/24/2014 5:30:08 PM PST by caww
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To: Greysard

“Juries are carefully selected among the most malleable people; judges can favor one side against the another - all this was seen aplenty in last years.”

Right you are! I’ve been challenged off of two juries that involved product liability. As an engineer, the lawyers representing the “defective product” wanted me gone immediately. They were looking for welfare mothers and retired blue collar types.
The major questions during voir dire were about awarding money for “pain and suffering.”
But as regards the microstamped shell casings a defense attorney has plenty of room to rule them out as well. I can’t imagine anyone not polishing off the firing pin on his semi on general principles the day he received the weapon.


41 posted on 01/24/2014 5:36:13 PM PST by vette6387
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To: Gen.Blather

Gen.Blather, do you have the link or source for that article? I’d be interested to read something hopeful for a change.... Thanks.


42 posted on 01/24/2014 6:41:53 PM PST by NewJerseyJoe (Rat mantra: "Facts are meaningless! You can use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!")
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To: DBrow

It’s not simple as Smith deciding not to sell to LE. Smith sells to distributors, who in turn sell to stores and any LE agency.
So while Smith could request none of their distributors sell to CA LE agencies, it would be up to them to decide if they wanted to comply.
And if somehow each one of these distributors did decide to turn down a lucrative LE purchase, it would be easy for someone in the CA gov to set up an out of state shell corp to make the purchase (for a nice little fee paid for by the taxpayers of course) and then transfer them to whatever CA LE agency wanted a new Smith.

So there’s really not a lot Smith or Ruger can do here, but hopefully Kimber won’t be making any new SIS models now.


43 posted on 01/24/2014 6:50:30 PM PST by Gen4ten
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To: Brooklyn Attitude

Technically, 10 rd mags, but only loaded to 7.


44 posted on 01/24/2014 6:58:50 PM PST by matt04
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To: Gen4ten

I rather see FA owners nationwide boycott anything being sold in CA as a protest against the controlling Communist and Socialist insurgents who’ve gained control of government at all levels in the state.


45 posted on 01/24/2014 8:24:30 PM PST by dragnet2 (Diversion and evasion are tools of deceit)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

Smith & Wesson, no problem. But if it were Wesson Oil...


46 posted on 01/24/2014 8:33:01 PM PST by SunkenCiv (;http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: Brooklyn Attitude
I would love to see a law requiring LEOs to abide by the same gun laws as non-leos.

The Second Amendment doesn't have multiple tiers of the RKBA, neither should any law. It flies in the face of Equal Protection to have the law apply one way to one group of people and another way to the rest.

47 posted on 01/24/2014 11:58:36 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee
This isn't so much a protest by S&W as it is a "Y' cannah break the laws of physics, Cap'n!" moment for them. Microstamping, as required by the law, isn't possible in a mass production environment.

The law reads in part:

(7) Commencing January 1, 2010, for all semiautomatic pistols that
are not already listed on the roster pursuant to Section 12131, it
is not designed and equipped with a microscopic array of characters
that identify the make, model, and serial number of the pistol,
etched or otherwise imprinted in two or more places on the interior
surface or internal working parts of the pistol, and that are
transferred by imprinting on each cartridge case when the firearm is
fired
So three unique data must be written onto the face of the firing pin and/or chamber. A firing pin's tip measures approximately 1.5mm in diameter. That's the canvas you have to work with. Now while there have been demonstration projects (With hand-crafted firing pins) showing reliable imprints made of a few characters, the text of the law requires more than that. To squeeze that much information into that small a space, you need to use machine readable marks; something like a barcode.

In the lab, this works great. In the real world, however, firing pins and chambers wear. Schmutz builds up in fine little details such as the ID mark you're trying to make. To make the degraded marking readable, you must do a Fourier transform on the image to turn it from a messy spatial domain signal into a frequency domain signal. The noise from the schmutz is random and can be filtered out of the transform. (It's all at the origin if you're plotting the data on an X-Y plane.) The filtered signal is then inverse transformed and the original image is recovered.

Again, it works great in the lab, but not the real world. In the real world, large pieces of the "signal" can be completely missing. To compensate, the marking must contain at least 2 copies of the signal to be recoverable. (If some of you are thinking Nyquist frequency, you're on the right path.) If the marking is 2D, like a QR code, then there must be at least 4 copies of the mark; 2 in the X axis and 2 in the Y axis.)

Again, again, it works in the lab, but not in the real world. In the lab, you can pay an intern minimum wage to spend a few days carefully etching numbers into a firing pin. In the real world, you're making dozens or hundreds of pin a day. You must do all of the normal machining steps and then add in the writing process. How do you do that? Absent Harry Potter and some variation of a patronus spell, there aren't any manufacturing techniques that can mark each part with its own, unique imprint; not with this kind of information density.

S&W isn't doing the protesting here. Nature is.

48 posted on 01/25/2014 12:57:24 AM PST by Redcloak (Winter is coming.)
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To: NewJerseyJoe; Gen.Blather
This may be it:

Enthusiasm on the left is like a bubble about to burst

49 posted on 01/25/2014 3:58:32 AM PST by BlessedBeGod (Democrats are Cruz'n for a Bruisin' in 2016. / Obama=Unspeakable Audacity)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

the law, signed in 2007 by then-Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R)


50 posted on 01/25/2014 4:43:38 AM PST by omega4179
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