Posted on 01/20/2014 6:43:00 AM PST by Baynative
I'm watching Martin Luther King's speech at the mall in Washington D.C. - I'm looking at the reflecting pool and thinking where America has gone...
I don’t disagree. Communism in this mortal coil is a recipe for hell.
I know far, far better than you wish to give credit for.
As a primer for you, go read the book of Job.
I.e. please do not presume to hold me captive to your ignorant attitude. But do something to help your ignorance. You probably will find Job hard to swallow. You will probably say what kind of cruel God would let Satan just DO that. And then God’s explanation was to display His surpassing glory before Job... what is God, some crazy egotist?
Well, no. God is the one who blesses. But we are in a battle zone, this mortal coil. However God is so wise that God can give selective permission to evil and STILL arrange for goodness to win in the end.
I think there is a sort of bell curve example to illustrate America's attitudes toward acceptance.
After Dr. King's speech and through much of the 70s there was a true movement toward becoming a color blind nation. But as the race baiters became more vocal and injected themselves in issues and when militant organizations like New Black Panthers and LaRaza worked to foment separation the trend began to slide.
When I was in college ('68-'72) there was a building atmosphere of cooperation and getting to know each other. There would never have been talk of a Black Student Union or Latino Caucus.
But you have to keep context in mind, as well as some theological truth.
Hell is the devil’s feeble imitation of heaven. Sin is the devil’s feeble imitation of righteousness. But instead of generosity and joy, all he can create is poverty and misery.
Communism is trying to implement heaven on earth with only hellish resources. It Will. Not. Work. (Unless your goal is to create a kakotopia.)
Note please that with the early Christian church, many things were voluntarily shared in common. If not literally donated, then offered for shared use (such as homes). That is a little preview of heaven. And it depended on all agreeing on the love of God down to the hilt.
They decided to implement a collective society along the classic Marxism lines of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need".
It was a disaster. People who worked hard resented their surplus produce being handed to those who did not work as hard. So they eventually produced only enough to meet their own needs. Eventually the concept had to be scrapped.
That's a great description of many facets of American culture; from education and justice to social interaction and employment.
Bouncing from pillar to post with no guide.
Remember even punishment is not intended by God for its own sake. “His wrath lasts but a moment, his lovingkindness endures forever.” It brings attention to what’s at stake, i.e. good and evil. With the robust rejection of any idea of the grace of God, has come a profound inability to deal sanely with the concept of penalties.
Talking about these things to people is a bit like trying to describe water to a fish. It’s so ubiquitous that it’s hard to transcend it in thought.
I’m sorry to tell you that this was not a duplication of the power of the early church. So your straw man falls flat.
In our over-hyped modern parlance we might call it a CINO (church in name only).
Don’t compare weak churches to strong ones.
[Don’t compare weak churches to strong ones.]
Well, actually, DO compare them. And learn some lessons.
[Well, actually, DO compare them. And learn some lessons.]
And in fact the chesty-thumpers over the trumpeted Christian roots of America would do well to note that, as the saying goes, “You ain’t seen nothin’ yet.” I don’t want to say it was NOTHING, but it was weak even historically speaking. It was a mile wide, an inch deep.
Oh my, we prided ourselves on our religion. I am sorry to put it that way, but I am being utterly candid. That’s how we got unstable arrangements with Caesars being expected to carry the gospel, then getting all bent out of shape when Caesars reverted to being honest, self-revering Caesars.
The early churches were an inch wide, a mile deep. That made the voluntary sharing system possible.
I am pained to see the sloppiness with which non-equivalent situations are compared here on FR. It results in impotent thinking, because we are chasing around after blurry forms.
Oh, don’t get me wrong—I’m not for the reverse discrimination that has become our norm.
But to downplay what MLKJ symbolizes and how unjust too much of our country was until his time is noxious.
I know a white fellow who lived during Jim Crow years of the south and he is utterly disgusted at some of the things he saw. He is an interesting one to talk about rednecks to, because he saw the ugly side of redneck that prided itself in “not being nigger.” I kid him about good rednecks from time to time, trying to get him to put it in a broader context, and actually he does see, it’s just that something so ugly is hard to put in a broader context.
But as I pointed out, the voluntary sharing system was an epic fail.
In fact, if you truly knew your history, you would know that the early churches were incredibly corrupt and ridden with scandal. Especially the Catholic church of Medieval times.
And as I pointed out, spiritual milieu matters.
If you think I was coming at this thing in the slightest to insinuate that a religious system could make communism work for a country in this mortal coil, then please disabuse yourself of that notion. At once. Because it dishonors what I have to say and because you look silly flailing at a straw man :-).
Being a church doesn’t mean being a very powerful one. You can be saved and still be weak on earth. What one displays of God’s glory on earth is up to the Christian.
I’m talking theory that applies to powerful churches. Which also tend to either helpfully inspire or else repel the lukewarm believer. Like I said, inch wide, mile deep.
Communism is an idea that is not so much wrong as too far ahead of its time.
Later in the post, you were implying that Communism is a good idea and that we just aren't ready for it yet because we haven't willingly accepted goodness and God. So yes, it would be good to have you explain what you are talking about.
There is a time when we will be in heaven (if saved).
Clear enough? Do you feel sheepish now?
I mean... what am I supposed to do, “feel sheepish” and tie myself to an earthbound viewpoint? I have long left that. Without a view of eternity, we can’t even make sense of earth.
Incidentally what do you think the 1000 years of iron rule by Christ on earth (if it happens according to a more or less literal read of the book of Revelation) would be like.
To be fair the scripture is silent. But if anyone had the knowledge to be able to make a system, that is like a pyramid balanced on a tip, work, it would be God directly.
I’m trying to raise people’s sights past earth. Maybe I am failing.
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