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If Your State is a Mess . . .

Posted on 10/12/2013 4:18:05 AM PDT by Jacquerie

As opposed to what the Left believes, the purpose of government is not to impose social justice.

As often happens, that was forgotten in Scotus’ 1964 Reynolds v. Sims ruling.

Citing a non-existent “one man one vote” principle, eight Warren Court black-robes ruled that state legislative districts must be of approximately equal populations. Through a rogue interpretation of the equal protection clause, these masterminds imposed a democratic republic form of government on all fifty states! Never mind the constitution simply guaranteed a republican form of government, Scotus illegally overruled centuries of wisdom and imposed democracy.

Republics demand consent of the people. Without our consent, no law is legitimate. But, when law making is entirely in the hands of the people or their representatives, the result is a democratic republic, which history has proved to be hostile to minority rights and eventually end in strongman tyranny.

Instead of representation by county, state senates were transformed into mini-assemblies. By this, Scotus gave large metropolitan areas control of both houses of state legislatures. No longer did rural areas have a counterbalancing voice. No longer was the damage done by urban demagogues limited to high density cities. Reynolds guaranteed the states would eventually succumb to the same leveling, social justice forces that have always typified big city government.

From Wiki, Senator Dirksen of Illinois warned that Chicago would come to dominate Springfield. He was right, and due to Reynolds, Illinois is near bankruptcy and losing population as people flee high taxes, higher unemployment, and societal destruction..

By what power did Scotus so easily, and by a large majority, impose breathtaking change on the fundamental structure of state government?

Because of the 17th Amendment, the states were defenseless. Without representation in the US Senate, Scotus black-robes had nothing to fear. Why would popularly elected US Senators oppose the decision? Some, like Dirksen did. But in the aggregate, popularly elected US Senators were not going to risk criticism for opposing the lofty ideal of “one man one vote.” The media would ask, “How could anyone be against democracy? How can anyone oppose the right of the people to elect state Senators?”

So, when you look around your state and cringe at rising taxation and read of rural county secessionist movements, take the time to consider the long chain of events that brought these situations about. It all began with the 17th Amendment, and cannot end until a convention of the states votes to repeal it.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; FReeper Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 17th; constitution; statesrights

1 posted on 10/12/2013 4:18:05 AM PDT by Jacquerie
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To: Jacquerie

So where do you go when the Supreme Court is unconstitutional?


2 posted on 10/12/2013 4:20:01 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: Jacquerie

I live in Maryland.. it’s a given the state’s a mess.


3 posted on 10/12/2013 4:31:05 AM PDT by maddog55
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To: txrefugee
Begin the process of restoring federalism. That can only happen through an amendment convention of the states.

Among Mark Levin's solutions is to grant three fifths of the state legislatures the power to overturn Scotus decisions.

It took a hundred years to stand where we are, on the cusp of despotism. It may be too late, but it is worth the effort.

4 posted on 10/12/2013 4:40:45 AM PDT by Jacquerie (An Article V amendment convention is our only hope.)
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To: txrefugee
So where do you go when the Supreme Court is unconstitutional?

I think you have to start interpreting the Constitution as written yourself. One example of that is that the Supreme Court has a nice name, but it's only "supreme" over other Federal courts. In our government, it's just another co-equal branch, along with the Congress and Presidency—which are interpreters of the Constitution with the same standing as SCOTUS.

That's why Congress has the power to impeach and convict justices of that Court. And in practice, they've set themselves the bar way too high for that. Failing to uphold your oath of office by over-reaching your powers or acting against the plain meaning of the USC is plenty.

And by the way, it says nowhere in the USC who is the ultimate interpreter of the document—and that's because the People, using plain language, are the ultimate interpreters. It begins "We, the People . . ." rather than "We the Supreme Court . . ." or "We the President . . ." or even "We the angry nerds who were unpopular in high school, and therefore went to law school. . ." (No offense to patriotic lawyers.)

I never understood my father fulminating against the absurdity of "one-man, one-vote" back when that decision came out. Thanks to this excellent vanity post, I get it. If we need to up-end Reynolds, the 17th Amendment, and also the 16th, to take back the last, best hope of mankind, then let's get 'er done.

5 posted on 10/12/2013 4:50:54 AM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: Jacquerie

I live in Alabama. Beautiful beaches and great football, but we have more people on welfare than those of us employed, an archaic state constitution, dramatically bad public education, overcrowded prisons, significant population with drug/alcohol problems, human trafficking, gangs, illegal aliens, racial prejudice (by all groups—white, black, etc), poor economic base, poor tax structure, etc. Things will only get worse...


6 posted on 10/12/2013 5:10:03 AM PDT by sassy steel magnolia
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To: sassy steel magnolia

All states have similar problems.

Last June, I wrote my state representative about a convention of the states.

He responded and asked when it would be convenient for me to have a chat.

We got together for about an hour. He was aware of a growing grass roots movement to reassert state sovereignty and thanked me.

Now, I didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday. I don’t imagine anything will happen soon. But, great things begin with great ideas.


7 posted on 10/12/2013 5:22:44 AM PDT by Jacquerie (An Article V amendment convention is our only hope.)
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To: SamuraiScot
So true. Our Framers thought Presidents and judges would be in the habit of looking over their shoulders and wonder if they risked impeachment. A few black-robe political scalps per year would do wonders.

As for reform, the people clearly oppose Obamacare.

What could be politically safer than to vote to defund it?

When I consider how the pubbies are likely to fold under rat and media pressure and give way to the forces of evil, it is silly to think reform can possibly emerge from Washington DC.

It is up to us, through our states, to save what little remains of our republic.

8 posted on 10/12/2013 5:32:10 AM PDT by Jacquerie (An Article V amendment convention is our only hope.)
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To: txrefugee

The same place you go when the Dept. OF justice is Corrupt and Their boss as well,no where


9 posted on 10/12/2013 5:41:06 AM PDT by ballplayer
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To: Jacquerie
Last June, I wrote my state representative about a convention of the states. He responded and asked when it would be convenient for me to have a chat. We got together for about an hour.

Sounds like the governor of my state... We usually meet for a few hours, throw back a couple of beers, maybe play a game of billiards or two, and enjoy an intimate chat about politics. Sometimes the U.N. Secretary-General, the Prime Minister of a medium-sized European country, or a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will stop by at the same time, and we'll switch to pitching horseshoes.

Glad to hear that your state representative is equally accessible. If only all of our elected representatives were so accommodating...

Regards,

10 posted on 10/12/2013 6:35:44 AM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: Jacquerie

The decision needs to be overturned.


11 posted on 10/19/2013 9:18:05 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Jacquerie

Good post.

Thank you.


12 posted on 10/19/2013 9:21:24 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Jacquerie

Amazing. When the court made that decision and I saw the results (I lived in AZ then), I knew something was wrong but was too ignorant to know why. Years later, I called into a local (here if FL) talk show run by two supposedly cinservative history professors and stated that I thought that court decision was wrong. They replied as if I were some kind of moron.


13 posted on 11/06/2013 5:06:21 PM PST by saminfl
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To: saminfl
I hear ya. Fewer and fewer of us speak the language of the Framers. For most, it is an unintelligible tongue.

If I lived anywhere near a university it would be fun to take a poly-sci class or two, just to sit back and wait to shred liberal jackass professors.

14 posted on 11/06/2013 5:26:10 PM PST by Jacquerie (Article V is our only hope to restore republican freedom.)
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To: txrefugee
So where do you go when the Supreme Court is unconstitutional?

What is necessary is to recognize (and encourage others to do so) that neither the Supreme Court, nor any other, has any legitimate authority over anyone other than the particular parties to the cases before them; while determination of which party should win will often require that the Court determine what the existing laws means, and while it is often useful for the Court to explain what the existing laws mean, the fact that the Court claims that the laws mean something does not make it so.

A major problem arises in cases where the government acts illegitimately, but no workable remedy can be formulated. A Court decision which holds that no remedy is justified will often interpreted as holding that the action in question was legitimate, whether or not the Court actually made such a determination (if the Court finds that no remedy would be possible in the case at hand, it will often not even consider whether the actions which led to the case were legitimate).

It should also be noted that in some cases it is right and proper for a court to make decisions which are not particularly justified by statutory law, if any other decision they could make would be even worse. For example, in Lawrence v. Texas, the Supreme Court should have remanded the case to a lower court with instruction that defendants should be entitled to argue that law enforcement was aware of and routinely ignored activities equivalent to those of the defendants, to such an extent that an ordinary person would perceive such actions as being de facto legal. For the Court to evaluate arguments not given, and order a remedy which had not been sought, would in general be improper, but the question of whether particular conduct would be generally perceived as de facto legal is a matter of contestable fact, and as such should be examined by a jury rather than the Court. Such a remedy would be more favorable to the defendants than any other to which they were actually constitutionally entitled; while the prosecutors would normally be entitled to argue against any proposed remedy, this remedy would allow it the chance to present its case before the jury. Nothing in statute would particularly justify such a remedy, but it would allow both prosecution and defense all the protections to which both sides are entitled.

15 posted on 11/17/2013 12:13:34 PM PST by supercat (Renounce Covetousness.)
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To: txrefugee
So where do you go when the Supreme Court is unconstitutional?

I think the Founding Fathers set the example of what to do when the Government got out of control and no longer represented the will of the people: Tar, Rope, Feathers.

16 posted on 11/17/2013 12:21:33 PM PST by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: usconservative

HEADS ON PIKES!


17 posted on 11/17/2013 12:24:20 PM PST by Yosemitest (It's Simple ! Fight, ... or Die !)
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To: Jacquerie

Will Reynolds v. Sims - “one man one vote” need to be addressed
when sending delegates to the convention of the states?


18 posted on 11/17/2013 12:55:16 PM PST by Repeal The 17th (We have met the enemy and he is us.)
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To: Repeal The 17th

I don’t think so, but state means (three fourths) to reverse horrible Scotus decisions should be. That is one of Levin’s amendments.


19 posted on 11/17/2013 2:15:11 PM PST by Jacquerie (An Article V amendment convention is our only hope.)
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To: alexander_busek; Jacquerie; Impy; fieldmarshaldj
>> Last June, I wrote my state representative about a convention of the states. He responded and asked when it would be convenient for me to have a chat. We got together for about an hour. <<

>> Sounds like the governor of my state... We usually meet for a few hours, throw back a couple of beers, maybe play a game of billiards or two, and enjoy an intimate chat about politics. Sometimes the U.N. Secretary-General, the Prime Minister of a medium-sized European country, or a member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff will stop by at the same time, and we'll switch to pitching horseshoes. Glad to hear that your state representative is equally accessible. If only all of our elected representatives were so accommodating. <<

I drove to Springfield for three hours to sit down with my state legislator back in Feb. to discuss the "gay marriage" bill the radical left was pushing. Most of the state legislators were "in committee" hearings, but I managed to catch her in her office. She shook my hand, thanked me for coming all the way to Springfield, claimed to be "undecided" on the bill, and listened politely as I explained my objections and pointed out she represented a socially conservative district that made up a large part of Congressman Lipinski's turf. She nodded and claimed she would take my opinions into account and write back when she had reached a decision.

Then she turned around and voted the way Madigan told her to ("AYE", of course), and never wrote back. She knows no matter what I do, she'll be re-elected by about 70% in her safe gerrymandered district.

It doesn't matter if state legislators are more "accessible" than federal ones, if you're NOT the one they're working for.

20 posted on 11/21/2013 2:25:58 PM PST by BillyBoy (Liz Cheney's family supports gay marriage. Do you?)
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To: alexander_busek

LMAO!!!


21 posted on 11/22/2013 12:19:37 AM PST by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: BillyBoy

This rabid “Gay” stuff intimidates everyone who gets in its way.

Now the counterbalance would be a faith in God, but as that does not exist in the strength required, the intimidators get their way.


22 posted on 11/22/2013 12:29:21 AM PST by HiTech RedNeck (The Lion of Judah will roar again if you give him a big hug and a cheer and mean it. See my page.)
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To: Jacquerie
just to sit back and wait to shred liberal jackass professors.

You could leap to your feet and speak in the language and tone of Patrick Henry!

23 posted on 11/30/2013 6:44:47 AM PST by ROCKLOBSTER ("The government" is nothing but a RAT jobs program)
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To: Jacquerie

One of the first things that the GOP needs to address when they come to power, or by a convention of states, is to have a constitutional amendment that specifies that all states will provide a bi-cameral legislature with the state senate being composed of one senator representing each county who resides within that county. A like amount of representatives will be divided across the population as a whole.

This will restore the power of the rural communities back to the state legislation.


24 posted on 12/20/2013 4:20:14 PM PST by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

Nebraska ain’t gonna do it.


25 posted on 12/20/2013 4:21:39 PM PST by ROCKLOBSTER (Celebrate "Republicans Freed the Slaves" Month.)
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To: taxcontrol; ROCKLOBSTER
Reynolds certainly needs to go.
26 posted on 12/21/2013 1:09:04 AM PST by Jacquerie (Circle your calendar. Mark Levin on C-Span BookNotes January 5th at noon eastern)
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To: Jacquerie

Wow, great history lesson. Thanks.


27 posted on 02/17/2014 1:50:16 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: SamuraiScot

They’re not a gang, more of a club.


28 posted on 02/17/2014 1:50:51 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
There is a crust of horrible Scotus decisions, underneath which a once free people are forced to labor. It is amazing we have lasted this long.
29 posted on 02/17/2014 2:22:58 PM PST by Jacquerie ( Obama has established executive branch precedents that no election can reverse. Article V.)
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To: maddog55
I live in Maryland.. it’s a given the state’s a mess.

We're catching up, give us time.


30 posted on 02/17/2014 2:26:50 PM PST by COBOL2Java (I'm a Christian, pro-life, pro-gun, Reaganite. The GOP hates me. Why should I vote for them?)
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To: COBOL2Java
Chaos Theory. Ross Perot gave us Bill & The Beast Clinton. Their political spawn, McAuliffe, Podesta, Emmanuel and others continue to work toward destruction of our republic.
31 posted on 02/17/2014 2:35:02 PM PST by Jacquerie ( Obama has established executive branch precedents that no election can reverse. Article V.)
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To: Jacquerie

How did things work prior to this decision? I read a bit about it and, on its face, it appears to be a movement toward more fairness. Some districts purportedly had 14 to 1 differences with others. Do you know the prior history?

I mean things are rigged now with gerrymandering so I cannot see how it would have been much worse in terms of outcomes.


32 posted on 02/17/2014 4:45:29 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
Its been some time since I posted this thread, so my memory on the subject is probably not 100%.

What Reynolds did was not simply dictate equally populated State Assembly voting districts. IMO that was bad enough court overreach into state matters. I cringe a bit when fairness is even brought up as a reason for court intervention. It strikes me as related to despicable social justice.

The states previously had varied methods of electing/appointing members to their senates, some of which went back to the earliest days of our republic and were independent of population.

For instance, Maryland came up with a filtered election of its state senators that was the model our framers used for both the US Senate and the electoral college.

Reynolds threw that all out, and like the 17th Amendment, resulted in popularly derived state legislatures, a bad idea that has lead to loss of freedom.

33 posted on 02/17/2014 5:07:19 PM PST by Jacquerie ( Obama has established executive branch precedents that no election can reverse. Article V.)
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To: Jacquerie

Wow, that’s an entire history I know nothing about. Do you have a resource that I could check? I’d like to learn more.


34 posted on 02/18/2014 6:09:31 AM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: 1010RD
No, unfortunately I can't point to a single source. It would be fascinating research to look at all fifty pre-Reynolds state constitutions to determine how they elected/appointed their upper houses.

In that vein I took a look at my home state, FL constitution. The pre-Reynolds constitution wasn't concerned with one man one vote. The basic political unit of the state was the county and each had at least one, but no more than three representatives. More populous counties had one senator and in rural areas, two contiguous counties got a single senator.

The constitutional emphasis was on limiting both taxes and legislative power to oppress.

Democracy be damned.

35 posted on 02/18/2014 11:54:20 AM PST by Jacquerie ( Obama has established executive branch precedents that no election can reverse. Article V.)
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To: Jacquerie

That’s a totally unrecounted story of our nation’s founding principles. I’ve never heard about that ever. That would make a great research project for some grad student.


36 posted on 02/18/2014 1:16:03 PM PST by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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