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HEY, NANCY BOYS: The Early Church Rebelled Against Oppressive Governments
Townhall.com ^ | October 6, 2013 | Doug Giles

Posted on 10/06/2013 5:56:07 AM PDT by Kaslin

The Christians of the first century were rebels with a cause. They weren’t the hair-spray-addicted, religious sponges of pop culture and oppressive governments looking to be ogled by an Oprah-addled crowd or breastfed by some big government tit . Oh, no, senorita. The primitive church was out to change the world.

After Jerusalem fell in AD 70, the church, birthed by the Holy Spirit during Rome’s heyday, exploded with growth in Asia Minor — which happened to be Ground Zero for Caesar worship.

The punch-drunk citizens of Roman rule thought the various Caesars, their laws, and their government were God. They built temples to these men and minted coins with their mugs stamped on them. The poor dupes of Rome believed their leaders’ poop didn’t stink and they could do no wrong. They even gave their human leaders godlike reverence, proclaiming Caesar as Savior and Healer, King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

Yep, to the serfs of Caesarland, their heads of state were just dreamy, and as they were divine everyone was expected to toe their line. Because of this blind faith in Caesar, the Roman government found it a piece of cake to tax the plebes to death, snatch their kids or their houses, and create crises that ginned up even more robust control of Rome’s citizens. I’m talkin’ Caesar had them on a short leash because of their faith in the state.

The early church, however, made it clear amidst this crapola that their allegiance was to Christ and not the edicts of Caesar — especially when Caesar’s dictates conflicted with the Word of God. Yep, it was the church’s disdain for Caesar’s unrighteous decrees (the decrees that required their obedience at the expense of their convictions) that got them killed.

Get it right, folks: It wasn’t the church’s belief that Jesus is God, or their love of covered dish dinners, or their Christian rock music that got them the ax; it was their holy defiance to the demonic edicts that Caesar attempted to slap them with. Rome didn’t give a rat’s backside whom or what they believed in just as long as that belief didn’t rock the boat of the Roman state. And that’s exactly what first-century Christianity did: It adhered to God’s laws versus Rome’s. The Church believed that Christ was Lord and therefore, respectfully of course, Caesar could kiss their fish sticker. Indeed, following the teachings of Jesus, the initial Ichthus crowd was cantankerous when it came to an oppressive state.

I’m sure the church tried to be nice about their obstinacy toward Rome’s odious laws, but when push came to legislative shove and it became clear that punk Caesar was requiring them to walk his way versus God’s, the first-century church defied the state instead of denying their God.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: bho44; christianity; churchhistory; defiance; douggiles; history; obamadare; shutdown

1 posted on 10/06/2013 5:56:07 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
Actually, ancient Rome was a polyglot of gods, from the traditional Roman gods (developed from the Greek Gods) to Mithraism, to whatever god floated a Roman's boat. The Rome Government didn't care who you worshipped, as long as you also worshipped the Roman gods every once in a while.

Early Christians refused to do this. They were accused of being "atheists", because they didn't at least acknowledge the official Roman gods. The persecutions were more severe than what many anti-Christian apologists claim they were, but the intensity of the persecution varied from Emperor to Emperor, and with the various Governors of the provinces.

2 posted on 10/06/2013 6:07:47 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. Don’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: Kaslin

RINOs are out in the open and primary time is coming:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_bhIl8U0rc


3 posted on 10/06/2013 6:27:25 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Kaslin

Waiting for some statist to trot out Romans 13:1-7..........and support it as proof that all governments must be obeyed.

In 3.....2.....1...


4 posted on 10/06/2013 6:35:08 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: noprogs
I love the deer in the headlights look when you asked them ?
Shall we obey the government when it comes to abortion ? how about taking the mark of the beast ?
How about ? if your wife is a nurse and is forced to perform abortions ?
How about when the church is forced to ordain homosexuals in the pulpit ?
5 posted on 10/06/2013 6:38:42 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: noprogs

Paul was talking about mobs of supposed Christians who were giving Christians a bad name by going around causing trouble as in flash mobs of partying like the punks of today, carousing around, abusing the system, disregarding normal sane reasonable laws, no self control, using the liberty in Christ for doing such things.


6 posted on 10/06/2013 6:48:26 AM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: noprogs

“Waiting for some statist to trot out Romans 13:1-7..........and support it as proof that all governments must be obeyed.”

To which the counter-argument is at Matthew 22:15-22. Hmm. Gospel or Epistle. I pick Gospel.

Render unto Caesar, y’all.


7 posted on 10/06/2013 6:52:28 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: American Constitutionalist

“Paul was talking about mobs of supposed Christians who were giving Christians a bad name...”

The Epistles have their place. I think rendering unto caesar is a much better practice.


8 posted on 10/06/2013 6:55:25 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: American Constitutionalist

I suspect his prison warden or the Council of Nicea, who were government employees (Church and State were one in those days) either intentionally misinterpreted Paul or inserted that out of whole cloth.

Paul was clear and direct on about everything else he wrote. If that passage was really about people acting like punks, Paul would have said “stop acting like punks”. That governments are ordained of God is a far cry from that!

All things work for His Purposes. God uses evil governments many times in the Bible to punish Israel, and to force Christians to trust Him and His Church.

This is just one dumb redneck’s suspicion/interpretation of that passage and the issues arising from it.


9 posted on 10/06/2013 6:58:35 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: RKBA Democrat

Pay your taxes is what that means. It’s a big jump from that to the Divine Right of Kings.


10 posted on 10/06/2013 7:00:34 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: Kaslin

Thanks for posting this. In essence, this part of church history is what converted me years ago. I’ve never been a fan of the blue-eyed blonde, effeminate Christ that a lot of our popular mythology ascribes to our Lord. I still find it repellent.

The more you learn about Christ and early church history, the more you recognize what a bunch of tough cookies they were. These were the type of folks I could look up to.


11 posted on 10/06/2013 7:01:39 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: noprogs

“Pay your taxes is what that means. It’s a big jump from that to the Divine Right of Kings.”

I take it differently. Part of the reason why it’s one of my favorite parts of the Gospel: it’s deliciously cryptic. Was Christ saying “pay your taxes” or something else? I take it as something else. In context, this came up us an attempt to trick Christ into making a treasonous statement. He turned it on it’s head and didn’t say obey caesar, but to render onto caesar. Or give the things that are of caesar right back to him. Be that his coinage...or other things. Those other things at the time including state sanctioned murder, abortion, gladiatorial games, and all manner of debauchery.


12 posted on 10/06/2013 7:09:11 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: RKBA Democrat

These tough cookies dominated the church and defined Christianity until the start of the Muslim invasion. Over a period of less than 100 years the ancient church was destroyed by Muslim invading forces. (See ancient history database)It has never regained its former power and influence. Even the Crusades were a blip historically and were extremely limited to forcing Muslim hoardes out of a few ancient Christian (and Jewish) cities. Of more than 500 major insurgencies by Muslims into Europe less than a dozen battles were fought to rid Christian sites of Muslim domination.


13 posted on 10/06/2013 8:50:00 AM PDT by Louis Foxwell (This is a wake up call. Join the Sultan Knish ping list.)
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To: Kaslin

It is worth noting how quiet the ‘courageous’ Cardinal Dolan and the Catholic Bishops are when Catholic chaplains are being prevented by Obama from saying Masses this weekend on some military bases.


14 posted on 10/06/2013 8:55:20 AM PDT by ardara
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To: MuttTheHoople

The Christians ignored the Roman gods but got into trouble because they refused to offer sacrifices to “god Caesar”.

The same as we today are condemned because we refuse to offer sacrifices to “god Obama”.


15 posted on 10/06/2013 8:56:48 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
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To: RKBA Democrat

What do you think “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s” means?


16 posted on 10/06/2013 9:00:02 AM PDT by Kaslin (He needed the ignorant to reelect him, and he got them. Now we all have to pay the consequenses)
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To: RKBA Democrat

Wasn’t this a big deal between the Pharisees and the Sadducees?


17 posted on 10/06/2013 9:18:48 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: Kaslin

Obviously I wasn’t there to ask what the finer intent of that parable was, but I’ve always interpreted as having deeper meaning than a sort of offhanded “it’s caesars coin, so give it to him.”

I think the early history of the church bears out what were really seditious underpinnings. The romans were evil to be sure, but more interested in power and debauchery than some obscure religion. Why were the Christians singled out?

The romans knew the existential threat the Christians posed.


18 posted on 10/06/2013 10:19:05 AM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: RKBA Democrat

Never thought of it THAT way.

If more Democrats were like you.......our country wouldn’t be in this mess!

http://www.rlcga.org


19 posted on 10/06/2013 11:30:46 AM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: noprogs

Thanks for the link and sorry to disappoint; I’m no longer a ‘rat.left in the 07-08 timeframe. Kept my FR handle, though.

At this point I’m a proud anti-partisan. I think moost if not all the parties suck and the founders were correct in their dislike for them as well.


20 posted on 10/06/2013 12:59:20 PM PDT by RKBA Democrat (Power disintegrates when people withdraw their obedience and support)
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To: RKBA Democrat

I may be sort of anti partisan myself. I’m just trying to keep the GOP from sucking so badly. ;-)


21 posted on 10/06/2013 1:54:02 PM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: Kaslin; alphadog; infool7; Heart-Rest; HoosierDammit; red irish; fastrock; NorthernCrunchyCon; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of general interest.

22 posted on 10/06/2013 1:58:27 PM PDT by narses (... unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.)
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To: Kaslin

Doug Giles is a warrior. And one of his greatest weapons is humor.


23 posted on 10/06/2013 2:18:35 PM PDT by Vision Thing (obama wants to convert his suicidal worshipers into suicidal bombers.)
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To: ExTexasRedhead

Let’s get the DEMOCRATS OUT FIRST!!!! Go for ALL the DEMOCRATS!!!


24 posted on 10/06/2013 2:26:01 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Vision Thing

His daughter was a warrior also!!


25 posted on 10/06/2013 2:28:30 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Ann Archy

Through some of his earlier writings, I knew he was a father of daughters. It wasn’t until your reply that I did a quick web search about them.

Looks like both his daughters are warriors. One helped to bring down ACORN, and another trains other girls on gun handling.


26 posted on 10/06/2013 2:41:16 PM PDT by Vision Thing (obama wants his suicidal worshipers to become suicidal bombers.)
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To: Vision Thing

I didn’t know he had any other than Hannah!!LOVE HER!!


27 posted on 10/06/2013 3:59:11 PM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion......the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: noprogs
The statist ? say to them ? God save King Geroge ! " Well then, alrighty, George Washington and the rest of the founding fathers were a bunch of rebels not only rebelling against King George but against God's word "
The true die hards of what Paul said then would have to say that the United States is a illegitimate government because they rebelled against the government at that time and against God.
28 posted on 10/06/2013 5:41:38 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: noprogs
Those " Punks " I referred to was a modern ideal of what some of those rowdy people could have been like.

Collect the pieces of the puzzle through out the new testament and you'll see of what sorts these were.

Not only in Rome but in other places where you had Christians doing all sorts of horrendous things.

I am talking about envying, strife, riotous living ( that was what mainly I was talking about, riotous living ) binge drinking, divisions, slandering each other, stealing, father rapers, going on even in the early church.

Trouble makers irregardless of what society or country they belonged to.

29 posted on 10/06/2013 5:50:42 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist

Paul was talking about mobs of supposed Christians who were giving Christians a bad name by going around causing trouble as in flash mobs of partying like the punks of today, carousing around, abusing the system, disregarding normal sane reasonable laws, no self control, using the liberty in Christ for doing such things.


I look at Romans 13 the same way I look at the POW Code of Conduct. You’re expected to resist aiding the enemy but you should follow basic sanitation regulations.


30 posted on 10/06/2013 6:03:15 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse
Agree.

It all draws back to what God expects of you against what the government forces you to do.

Abortion ? suppose a christian man has a wife who is a nurse and is forced to perform abortions ?

How about the Egyptian midwives who refused to kill the Hebrew babies when Pharaoh set out a decree that all Hebrew babies were to be killed 2 years and under ?

How about when the government forces you to take the mark of the beast ?

They had people coming into the early church and cause trouble.

Some where rebels without a cause either for some political movement or religious movement, they were just plain rebels.

If this was set in stone in what Paul said in Romans 13 then would not the United States be a illegitimate government ? after all ? God ordained all government and King George was ordained by God.

These true die in the wool die hards on what Paul said in Romans 13 can't have it both ways, to have their freedom here in the USA and still claim that King George was ordained by God.


Remember ? Let the Bible be the interpreter of the Bible.
You can't get stuck on just one scripture and make it a dogmatic doctrine.
31 posted on 10/06/2013 6:19:09 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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To: American Constitutionalist

Abortion ? suppose a christian man has a wife who is a nurse and is forced to perform abortions ?

How about the Egyptian midwives who refused to kill the Hebrew babies when Pharaoh set out a decree that all Hebrew babies were to be killed 2 years and under ?

How about when the government forces you to take the mark of the beast ?


I think you already know the answer... ;-)


32 posted on 10/06/2013 6:22:05 PM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Rides_A_Red_Horse

But I have heard it preached other wise.


33 posted on 10/06/2013 6:30:40 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist
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Judge Andrew Napolitano: Revolution is Duty of the People
You Tube
Posted on 10/10/2013 11:59:12 AM PDT by Kartographer
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3077299/posts


34 posted on 10/12/2013 12:54:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; cardinal4; ColdOne; ...

Thanks Kaslin. Apropos of nothing, the church-house door section of the Declaration of Independence:
The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
  • He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
  • He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
  • He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
  • He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
  • He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
  • He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
  • He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
  • He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
  • He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
  • He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
  • He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
  • He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
  • He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
  • For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
  • For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
  • For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
  • For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
  • For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
  • For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
  • For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
  • For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
  • For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
  • He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
  • He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
  • He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
  • He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
  • He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
Any of those look familiar?


35 posted on 10/12/2013 12:54:38 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (It's no coincidence that some "conservatives" echo the hard left.)
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