Posted on 09/25/2013 7:10:23 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Kirk Cameron introduced his latest live event through Fathom, Unstoppable, at Liberty University to a massive crowd, 700 movie theaters and over 100,000 viewers. Cameron’s message was very personal, motivated by the death of a close friend’s teenage son, and challenged even the strongest Christians to answer “Where is God when you are in the middle of the tragedy?”
Confessing that the suffering in the world, the loss of life and death of children all bring us to our knees to ask God: “Where are you?”
Not answering this question is one that can destroy the bond with God, drive people to atheism or worst.
Cameron’s intro included tear-jerking testimonies from Vietnam vet Tim Lee, who lost both of his legs when we stepped on a landmine. Lee recounts his surgeries, feeling distant from God, but said “Life is stronger than death and life won out.”
“How can you stop a man who won’t quit?” Lee asked, describing the message from some Georgia teens, as he now travels America as a evangelist, preaching the gospel. (Tim Lee Ministries)
It was Charles Woods next.
The proud father of Tyrone Woods, one of the fallen heroes from the Benghazi attack, quoted scriptures of encouragement and stories centered on a God of love and his sovereign power over everything.
Mandisa performed her hit song “You’re an Overcomer” and Warren Barfield sang his song from Unstoppable: “The Time is Now.”
Audiences may have been content and happy to have left after the pre-show, but that was just the introduction.
Cameron’s Unstoppable recounts the Bible, the Creation story, the fall of Adam, the murder of Abel and the flood to question the audience member’s understanding of God.
The question “Why doesn’t God heal if He’s good…where is He?” still resonated through the film as Cameron explores this “Faith wrecking question” (if left unaddressed.)
Moved by the death of Matthew Sandgren, Cameron journeys to the funeral, hugs the family and expresses his pain through his story.
“People don’t want to hear about death,” Cameron stated while discussing the flood story, yet the audience was not invested in this exploration.
Unlike the response to a child in the Christian film Courageous, Unstoppable doesn’t seek out survival skills or a reason to carry on, but rather an understanding of an omnipotent God who works through horrible and tragic events, as documented in the Bible, to deliver mercy, grace, love and everlasting hope.
HuffPo described the film as a “One Hour Sermon” and that isn’t unfair.
The film’s target audience is Bible believing Christians who will ask these questions as tragedy lands on their doorstep.
Unstoppable doesn’t offer much appeal to the atheist or the skeptic as it relies on the truths of scripture to connect with Cameron’s earnest faith and emotions.
While some may come away discussing the rib scene at Eve’s creation, the brutal murder of Abel or the hysterical movie pitch of “The Flood,” the audience will likely seek out Unstoppable for a viewing when tragedy knocks on their door.
Prayers sent for you fredhead...
After all, what value is there in a creation which only functions in a mechanical matter as a robot as opposed to a creation with a free will which chooses to love and obey?"
I respect that this reflects your opinion and that you are likely in the majority view. It does not, however, describe what the Book describes.
AS I tried to start out my prior reply I mentioned the thought that we imagine ourselves as ‘creators’ of something like a PC. we as creators do have the sovereign right to use or dispose of our creation in whatever way we desire.
If that creation (in this case a PC) wasn’t function correctly, we do have the right to modify it by adding, deleting, or modifying various parts to make it perform correctly. However our imaginary PC is not able to do things which it is not made for despite how versatile they are these days.
Likewise God who is our creator also has the right to modify, improve, or destroy His creation which among other things is us as individuals.
There are many verses in the bible which either outright proclaim or strongly suggest that God created man to worship Him out of love, honor, and obedience.
To those who do use their free will to do so are the one’s fulfilling what God’s desires as free will individuals choosing to do what is pleasing to God.
AS created individuals, mankind was designed to be able to learn right from wrong and eliminate our wrong doings as much as possible by learning God’s will for our lives.
In so far as pre-destination, God sees the entirety of His creation knowing the beginning to the end. He already knows what our responses to His will are and He prepares us with specific gifts via the Holy Spirit to be able to perform what He sees us being able to do.
Remember that a ‘house’ (undertaking) built by man’s hands (and will) alone will fail because if an undertaking is done without the participation of God it is a failure in His sight.
In many cases, doing things in opposition to God’s will may result in immediate and severe punishment up to and including death.
As the bible also declares God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world but that the world through Him (The Son) may be saved. It also states that he that has the Son (of God) has life but he that has not the Son (of God) has not life but the wrath of God abides (already exists and remains) on him.
Considering the above, if God created the evil what ‘right’ would He have to hate it? Also why would God have provided a way out of or redemption of that evil if He is the one who created it? If MAN was CREATED evil rather than inheriting it as ‘Original Sin’ what ‘right’ does have to complain against His own creation and why would He then provide a remedy against for MAN to remove the evil which ‘God’ created man with?
The bible states that Adam was responsible for committing the original sin (by mankind) and therefore both He and his mate Eve were cursed while a greater curse was placed against the Earth rather than totally cursing Adam, Eve and their descendants thereby permanently disabling them from any redemption.
As to the Original sin, It was for partaking of the forbidden ‘fruit’ of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Because of THAT sin, he was cursed and prevented from partaking of the “Tree of Life”.
That choice of partaking of that ‘tree’ was an exercise of free will even though he knew of God’s command not to partake of it. Once again, it is free will (this time exercised against the will of God) rather than God forcing someone to do evil.
The bottom line again is that without free will man would NOT be capable of worshiping God by loving, worshiping, and obeying Him due to his own desires but man would merely be a mechanical or robotic creation no better than the least of God’s angels created to perform the most menial of tasks.
Please give some Scriptural support for this perspective. The alternate perspective is supported in:
Job 37 – 41
Job 42:2
Jer. 32:17
Prov. 16:9
Is. 45:1
Prov. 16:4
Eccl. 3:1-14
Prov. 21:1
Dan 4:35
Prov. 20:24
Job 14:5
Phil 3:12
Eph. 2:10
Ex 4:11
Ex. 35:35
James 4:13-15
Lam. 3:37-38
Is. 53:10
Acts 4:27-28
I Kings 22:19-23
I Sam 16:14-23
I Sam 18:10
I Sam 19:9
II Sam 24:1
1 Chronicles 21:1
I Cor. 14:33
Ex 14:24
Ex 23:27
Deut 7:23
Deut 28:20
II Thess 2:11
Rom 11:8
II Chron 34:24
Is 37:26
Amos 3:5
John 6:44
John 6:65
Isaiah 43:6-7
Rom 14:4
Jude 24, 25
Ephesians 1:11-12
Jeremiah 31:34ff
Phil 1:6
Prov. 16:33
Select any number of these passages and read the larger context. There is no "free will". There is just God managing His universe at all times. This is the very troubling truth that unbelievers (and some believers) have with things...God really is God. There is no analogical counterpart.
"Considering the above, if God created the evil what ‘right’ would He have to hate it? Also why would God have provided a way out of or redemption of that evil if He is the one who created it?"
As I said my OP, the only way out of the problem is for Him to pay the price Himself (Heb. 13:20ff, the blood of the ETERNAL covenant).
"If MAN was CREATED evil rather than inheriting it as ‘Original Sin’ what ‘right’ does have to complain against His own creation and why would He then provide a remedy against for MAN to remove the evil which ‘God’ created man with?"
Man was created with "lust", or an appetite. Check James 1. When lust conceives, it gives birth to sin, and when sin is accomplished it brings forth death. Adam had the capacity to sin, because he was created with lust. It took a couple weeks (a month?) for it to express itself in sin. Where did you read that Adam was created holy? If you mean that God saw the creation and it was "good", then would you also conclude that Satan was good? He had fallen long before the earth was formed. Can't have it both ways.
"The bible states that Adam was responsible for committing the original sin (by mankind) and therefore both He and his mate Eve were cursed while a greater curse was placed against the Earth rather than totally cursing Adam, Eve and their descendants thereby permanently disabling them from any redemption."
The Bible says that sin entered through Adam, not that he is "responsible" for sin. It actually says, "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Rom. 3 and Psalms. Adam happened to be the first man out of the gate, but no more guilty than you or I.
This is a common view...but not actually the story. The "sin" Adam committed was rebellion against God (as displayed in his disobedience). When do you believe Adam "decided" to eat? A minute earlier? An hour earlier? At breakfast that morning with Eve? His teeth sank in long AFTER sin was active. The sin just became visible with the fruit. Unless you are an advocate of sin being limited to "behavioral acts", sin was moving in Adam long before the chomping occurred.
Good points.
If God never provided Adam with a choice, man would never know the depths to which we can sink trading Paradise for a piece of fruit. I suspect the same is true about Satan. The angels would never have thought it would be possible that they would rebel against God without God showing what they were capable of.
We are all fallen creatures without His sustaining grace to draw us to Him and to keep us in His presence.
Why does God allow evil? Only by seeing ourselves as we are will we repent and be drawn to Him.
It sure would have had to be something a whole lot better than a dang apple to tempt me....wonder if there will be pizza and chinese and ice cream and everything we like here in heaven. Cause my body there won’t gain a pound! lol
Hallelujah! :)
I love your common sense response.
Bet God does too :-)
Sounds like a marvelous place. Will we have free will? Will it be free of charge?
These, like the ones in previous post, are rhetorical questions, it is evidently necessary to stipulate.
No.
Wouldn’t you rather be totally submissive to God’s will?
Fredhead - that it so sad. We never know why these things happen, we only know our faith sees us through them. You are starting a new chapter in your life. God kicked it off in quite a way. He has His reasons I guess. I’ll pray for you. Somehow you are better off.
Assuming for a moment that’s not a rhetorical question...What I’d rather is immaterial, HarleyD.
But I’m not endowed with Kirk Cameron’s theological insight, so I’ll stop there. :)
Interesting response. No it wasn’t a rhetorical question. I’m not sure where Kirk stands on the matter but one would hope we would all relish the idea of being totally submissive to God’s will.
Interesting response. Recalls the saying, "Give me chastity...but not yet."
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