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Eleanor Holmes Norton says "more guns than people" in U.S., in Navy Yard reaction
politifact.com ^ | September 19, 2013

Posted on 09/19/2013 9:25:15 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

In the wake of Monday’s Navy Yard shooting, Eleanor Holmes Norton, D-D.C., addressed national and civic security. Holmes, the nonvoting delegate to Congress representing the District of Columbia, praised the quick police response, but she also noted that no one is entirely insulated from criminal acts.

"We understand that in an open and democratic and free society, you cannot make yourself impenetrable, especially when there are more guns than there are people in the United States today," she said in a press conference.

Are there really more guns than people? We wanted to dig into the data.

Let’s pin down the easy number: population. The U.S. Census Bureau puts the 2010 population at 308.7 million people. We can get even closer with their nifty population clock, which on the day we checked it estimated a population of nearly 317 million, based on migration, birth and death rates.

Now that we have a frame of reference for Norton’s comparison, let’s move to the question of the number of civilian guns in the country, a murkier subject. As we’ve noted, federally sponsored gun research is scarce.

Most of the available studies are estimates. Since most states don’t register guns or license owners, there’s no concrete thing to count, said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.

This June, at President Barack Obama’s request, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a report rounding up what we know about firearm ownership and usage. It offered a 2007 estimate of 294 million guns, but with a pretty hefty caveat:

"Basic information about gun possession, acquisition, and storage is lacking," the report read. "No single database captures the total number, locations, and types of firearms and firearm owners in the United States."

The National Rifle Association usually describes the number as "approaching 300 million," spokesman Andrew Arulanandam wrote in an email.

Daniel van Hoogstraten, Norton’s spokesman, pointed us to a Congressional Research Service study that goes with a slightly higher ballpark: 310 million as of 2009. He made the case that gun proliferation in the country has been increasing at a quick enough rate to exceed the population. While that’s an interesting theory, we found no evidence to back it up.

Since the CRS number is from 2009, the closest apples-to-apples comparison we can make is using the U.S. Census population from 2010. So that's about 310 million guns to 308.7 million people. Again, we can't get a firm grip on how much the guns number has changed since then, but the population has gone up by almost nine million, according to the Census estimate.

Our ruling

Norton claimed there are "more guns than there are people in the United States." There’s no way to know for sure how many guns there are, given the available data. The highest credible guns number we saw was 310 million, which bests the 2010 population by over a million. But it falls short of the 2013 population estimate. We don't have any reliable gun surveys to approximate 2013 numbers. There's a chance Norton is right, but the available evidence isn't definitive. We rate Norton’s claim Half True.


TOPICS: US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: bang; banglist; guncontrol; secondamendment

1 posted on 09/19/2013 9:25:15 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

It’s probably closer to 600 million.
There has been over 300 million guns produced in the US since 1950, and the US is a net importer.
Other people have done rough calculations…

http://extranosalley.com/?p=195

Most people that have looked at manufacturing, import and export figures, with a more reasonable attrition rate usually come to a fig more along the lines of 600 million like the person in the link I posted.


2 posted on 09/19/2013 9:38:46 PM PDT by Rage cat
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Out of the dozen or so that I own, not a single one of them has ever shot anybody.


3 posted on 09/19/2013 9:38:59 PM PDT by digger48
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Start an “Adopt-a-Gun Program”!!! End the awful sight of homeless guns lying about gathering dust and rust!!! ;)


4 posted on 09/19/2013 9:39:05 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Are there really more guns than people?

Perhaps, in some places. But there never seem to be at any of the places that these wackos decide to target.

5 posted on 09/19/2013 9:39:54 PM PDT by jdege
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To: Tailgunner Joe

There is an often quoted figure that around 80 million Amercans own one or more guns. But so many of them seem to have lost all their guns in a boating accident, that I don’t think the 300 million figure could be too accurate.


6 posted on 09/19/2013 9:40:12 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( ==> sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: digger48

Same here.

Amazing they didn’t jump up and shoot the maid or something.


7 posted on 09/19/2013 9:41:45 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Tailgunner Joe

There were more guns than people in my house until that tragic boating accident.


8 posted on 09/19/2013 9:48:14 PM PDT by Veggie Todd (Still crazy after all these beers.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Eleanor Holmes Norton, D-D.C. doesn’t give a shiite who gets killed-—she was one of the democraps that walked out of a Benghazi hearing before the families of the murdered heroes could testify.

She sucks:

Eleanor Holmes Norton (D.C.)-

S.E. District Office
2041 Martin Luther King Jr. Ave., S.E.
Suite 238
Washington, DC 20020
ph: (202) 678-8900

“The Marxists abandoned the families at the Benghazi hearing just like they abandoned the Americans in Benghazi.”

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/09/19/spitting-on-their-graves-democrats-leave-benghazi-hearing-before-testimony-from-benghazi-families-n1704732


9 posted on 09/19/2013 9:52:22 PM PDT by Mortrey (Impeach President Soros)
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To: digger48
Yep, just did an inventory and realized we have 3 people living in our house, and 15 firearms.

Now, 5 of them come from my grand-dad's generation. For round numbers figure about 50 years old. There are 2 from my father's generation. Figure about 40 years old. The remaining 8 are more recent, direct purchases by either my wife or myself. Figure an average age of 3 years.

That's a total of over 350 "gun-years" of firearms. Just like yours, mine have never shot anyone. In fact, as near as I know none of mine have ever been pointed at another human being. (unless grand-dad used the old 30-30 to run trespassers off the farm)

If firearms are inherently evil, and possessed of their own free will, or have some evil effect on people (a-la the one ring in the "Lord of the Rings") as the libs and would-be gun-grabbers believe... You'd think in all that time/exposure to firearms someone would've gotten hurt. Worst I've seen is a little "slide bite" on both my son and myself, and there was the one time I got my finger caught in the 1911 while cleaning it. Yeah, that stings. Oh, and I've gotten Hoppe's #9 in my eyes more than once. Then there was that hot casing from the Glock that hit me in the face and stuck to my cheek...

10 posted on 09/19/2013 9:58:58 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: smokingfrog

Lost mine in Mt.Pinatubo eruption. Dang pyroclastic clouds.


11 posted on 09/19/2013 10:14:49 PM PDT by rktman (Inergalactic background checks? King hussein you're first up.)
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To: Mortrey

She is just another commie piece of shit


12 posted on 09/19/2013 10:16:36 PM PDT by Stayfree (If it is left, then it can't be right!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

norton is such a pathetic clown. The reprobate isn’t even a “real” congressperson. norton should shut bher pie hole.


13 posted on 09/19/2013 10:17:38 PM PDT by ogen hal (First amendment or reeducation camp)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

i would say she might be right if she were talking only about the urban black population.


14 posted on 09/19/2013 10:29:11 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Hey! Everybody needs a backup piece!


15 posted on 09/19/2013 10:42:25 PM PDT by noprogs (Borders, Language, Culture)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The only reason Norton has the freeloader job that she has is because she is too stupid to be able to fill out an application for Food Stamps.


16 posted on 09/19/2013 11:08:42 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (The time for impeachment has come.)
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To: ogen hal; Stayfree

I noticed she was in front of a TV camera every chance she could get. Bet she could give Charles “Chuck You” Schumer a real run for his money!


17 posted on 09/20/2013 12:00:39 AM PDT by snuffy smiff (Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

And so what if there is and why should this be important to this POS from DC?

It is my God given right to own a firearm and I and any other American can own as many as they please.

I do not need some black biotch from DC telling me in Texas what a shame that we have too many firearms in the US. IF she does not like it, tuff crap get over it and tend to her own black heathens in DC.


18 posted on 09/20/2013 2:16:22 AM PDT by eartick (Been to the line in the sand and liked it)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
D.H.S. says that its plan to buy about 750 million rounds in the next five years is not unusual... What's Norton think about this? My reaction:


19 posted on 09/20/2013 2:22:57 AM PDT by maddog55 (America Rising.... Civil War II)
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To: maddog55

20 posted on 09/20/2013 2:32:21 AM PDT by JoeProBono (Mille vocibus imago valet;-{)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

But there WEREN’T more guns out than people in the Navy Yard. That’s WHY so many were shot and killed.


21 posted on 09/20/2013 2:36:47 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: jdege
But there never seem to be at any of the places that these wackos decide to target.

They may be wacko, but they know how to pick their targets.

To paraphrase a famous quote, "Why do I shoot up no-gun zones? Because that's where the guns aren't."

22 posted on 09/20/2013 2:43:40 AM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

And yet, the shooter was the only armed person in the Navy Yard.


23 posted on 09/20/2013 2:58:34 AM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

There are more brains in a gnat’s ass than there are in all the Congressmen in Washington DC, that includes non-congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton.


24 posted on 09/20/2013 3:41:12 AM PDT by ImNotLying (The MSM bears a close resemblance to the world's oldest profession!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Since the country is apparently awash in firearms, I guess it’s time to buy more stock in Winchester, Remington and Ruger. I’ll bet the anti-gun politicians are doing just that, because they know their babble is scaring people into buying more heat.


25 posted on 09/20/2013 3:52:24 AM PDT by jespasinthru (Proud member of the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
She was calling for tighter gun control before the last victim was cold. No joke, no exaggeration.
26 posted on 09/20/2013 4:04:25 AM PDT by Pecos (Kritarchy: government by the judges)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Add me to the list. Proud new owner of a Sig Saur 2022 in .40


27 posted on 09/20/2013 4:21:18 AM PDT by halfright (FAST & FURIOUS! DON'T ALLOW THEM TO DIVERT YOUR ATTENTION.)
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To: JoeProBono

Eleanor does *not* appear to be Ed’s progeny. Trixie has some explaining to do.


28 posted on 09/20/2013 4:33:18 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

If so then certainly every American should have a gun.


29 posted on 09/20/2013 5:12:14 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE http://steshaw.org/econohttp://www.fee.org/library/det)
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To: Rage cat
It’s probably closer to 600 million. There has been over 300 million guns produced in the US since 1950, and the US is a net importer. Other people have done rough calculations…

http://extranosalley.com/?p=195

Most people that have looked at manufacturing, import and export figures, with a more reasonable attrition rate usually come to a fig more along the lines of 600 million like the person in the link I posted.

It's an interesting estimate -- if 300 million guns have been produced in the US since WW2, add in the imports -- (about 1:2 is the ratio in my own safe) add in "survivors" from pre-WW2 production and "bringbacks" from WW2 -- 500-600 million or more firearms in the US is not an unreasonable estimate.

I've been arguing for years that trying to control guns in the US with legislation is like trying to control a hurricane with rolls of paper towels. No matter how many more you add, it's just not going to work.

30 posted on 09/20/2013 5:12:43 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

If you use all three names - people will think you are really smart.


31 posted on 09/20/2013 5:45:29 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: ThunderSleeps
Just like yours, mine have never shot anyone.

I used to say that too, but the WWII Garand that just joined us might have offed a kraut or two.

The gun isn't saying...

32 posted on 09/20/2013 7:12:09 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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