Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

China’s ‘Carrier-Killer’ Was Born in the Balkans
War is Boring ^ | September 7, 2013 | Robert Beckhusen

Posted on 09/08/2013 2:32:05 PM PDT by neverdem

The DF-21D is China’s answer to America’s carriers, with an unusual origin in the Kosovo War

In 1999, the U.S. was engaged in an air and missile war with Serbia. As NATO bombs exploded around Belgrade — part of a campaign to force an end to the ethnic cleansing of Kosovar Albanians by Serb forces — several U.S. missiles slammed into the Chinese embassy. It was the most controversial U.S. action of the war.

China’s leaders were outraged, but could do little in response. The result? The bombing became a pivotal moment in the decision to pursue a sophisticated weapons project: a ballistic missile that can sink American aircraft carriers from 1,900 miles away.

That’s the history according to a new book from Andrew Erickson, a specialist on the Chinese military at the U.S. Naval War College. The book has wonky title: Chinese Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) Development: Drivers, Trajectories and Strategic Implications. But it’s the most comprehensive overview of a weapon — the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile — that poses perhaps the greatest threat to American aircraft carriers that’s not a nuclear bomb.

“The bottom line is that the era of ‘ASBM denial’ is over,” Erickson writes. “China’s ASBM is not science fiction. It is not a ‘smoke and mirrors’ bluff. The DF-21D is not an aspirational capability that the United States can afford to ignore until some point in the future.”

Usually, carriers are incredibly tough to kill, sitting far off a coastline and outside the range of whatever most countries can throw at it. Escort ships are prowling for submarine threats, and air-defense missiles and carrier-borne fighter jets scan for enemy bombers that can launch sea-skimming cruise missiles. But a ballistic missile that can target ships can bypass all these defenses while being launched from land at the same time.

There’s still a lot of...

(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; US: District of Columbia
KEYWORDS: albania; asbm; asbmdenial; bosnia; china; df21d; kosovo; nato; serbia; syria; yugoslavia
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-53 next last
China’s ‘Carrier-Killer’ Was Born before that. Big Clinton donors let let the Chicoms know what was going wrong when they tried to put satellites into orbit. Capitalists selling the rope with which they'll be hanged.
1 posted on 09/08/2013 2:32:05 PM PDT by neverdem
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Word is that some of the functions of Milosevic’s secret police were being carried out at the Chinese Embassy as a de-facto safehouse.

The JDAM simply glides to the GPS coordinates it is supplied with:

How likely is it that the US military programmed in the WRONG coordinates...?

The Embassy was struck because it was being used as an instrument of WAR.

I didn’t agree with that war, but that’s not the point.


2 posted on 09/08/2013 2:36:52 PM PDT by gaijin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gaijin
Then be prepared to go to WAR with the country of the embassy you bomb...

And be prepared for them to bomb your embassy and assets...

The Embassy was struck because it was being used as an instrument of WAR.

3 posted on 09/08/2013 2:40:24 PM PDT by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Everything the Chinese produce is junk. Their military is incompetent. The only advantages they have are numbers and our treasonous political leadership.


4 posted on 09/08/2013 2:43:27 PM PDT by Ajnin (Wolves don't lose sleep over the opinion of sheep.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

IIRC, that was a brand new Chinese embassy that was not open for business yet or only partially open.

Many speculated that there might have been ‘reasons’ it met with the ‘accident’.


5 posted on 09/08/2013 2:50:23 PM PDT by TomGuy (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ajnin

In a conventional war the asymmetry in troop strength between China and its adversaries will make up for a lot of weaknesses.


6 posted on 09/08/2013 2:50:44 PM PDT by lbryce (The 22nd Amendment Lives:1142 Days Until America's Greatest Nemesis Gets the Heave "Ho")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Also recall that a Chinese sub came up undetected in the middle of a US fleet not so long ago.

China may be itching to try out their new ‘bath tub’ toys.


7 posted on 09/08/2013 2:51:45 PM PDT by TomGuy (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gaijin

what i heard was actually the downed f117 that was shot down there was not destroyed by the air force, (stupid) so they sold it to the chinese. They moved it into the embassy garage... THEN they decided it probably wouldnt be good to let the chinese have it. BOOM.


8 posted on 09/08/2013 2:51:54 PM PDT by Walkingfeather
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: 2banana

Well...the US took this action because the Chinese would deny they’d been permitting any illicit activity at their Embassy, and the US would averr their, “embarrassing mistake”.

The agreement was prolly:

1. China gets to operate ALL whizbang gear to collect the US electronic order of battle in-situ, with that take being harvested for use in some possible future conflict with the US (Straits).

2. Milo’s guys get to use some some large portion of the Embassy to do their dirty work.

But then the big, unexpected whoosh-BOOM.


9 posted on 09/08/2013 2:53:59 PM PDT by gaijin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: gaijin

“How likely is it that the US military programmed in the WRONG coordinates...?”

About as likely as NASA calculating orbital velocities in feet per second, but imputing them in meters per second thus causing a billion-dollar Martian space probe to crash on the Martian surface. Bureaucratic error. It happens. Also, nobody is shooting at the engineers at JPL while they go a out their business.

All that said, the chances of that kind of error are less than the chances that the US attack was intentional. And if it was, the Chinese certainly know the reasons for it.


10 posted on 09/08/2013 2:55:57 PM PDT by Tallguy (Hunkered down in Pennsylvania)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: gaijin
The JDAM simply glides to the GPS coordinates it is supplied with: How likely is it that the US military programmed in the WRONG coordinates...?

Exactly. You can't claim missile malfunction when what, 3 hit? The odds of three missiles suffering the same oddball malfunction are about the same as Capt. Kirk beaming down beside me as I type this.

Putting in the wrong numbers? Highly doubtful. I don't know the procedures for loading them. But I've got to assume the basic intel would be checked, double checked, and triple checked. Then the strike approval would be checked and double checked. Finally, the target load has to have at least one check, if not several. All along the way nobody pulled up google maps and took a peek? Seems like it was intentional.

Then again, we did fly a B-52 with nuclear weapons to the wrong base. So who knows. I believe the missiles were probably in the concept / requirements stage long before that. The Chinese have always struck me as extremely practical, pragmatic, and patient when it comes to military strategy. Why spend trillions on a blue water navy (carriers, escort ships, air wings, etc.) to oppose the US fleet. A fleet with decades of a head start? Why not a fraction of the resources to build a weapon that can directly oppose the carriers. Then build out a regional navy to project influence just as far as you want to. For now.

11 posted on 09/08/2013 3:00:05 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

The strike on the Chinese embassy in Belgrade had nothing to do with an aircraft carrier. It was carried out by B-2’s operating from Whiteman AFB, MO.


12 posted on 09/08/2013 3:02:12 PM PDT by NYFreeper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

A carrier is a formidable weapon against a technologically inferior enemy. When used against another superpower such as Russia or China it is dead meat, as theirs would be dead meat if used against us. If you can see it from orbital altitude or know where it is by other means, you can kill it.


13 posted on 09/08/2013 3:09:22 PM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist. THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Oh, Bernie.


14 posted on 09/08/2013 3:09:54 PM PDT by Hardraade (http://junipersec.wordpress.com (Obama: the bearded lady of the Muslim Brotherhood))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Aircraft carriers were problematic in WW-II, they may in fact be outmoded now. You couldn’t design an easier target for a missile.


15 posted on 09/08/2013 3:14:33 PM PDT by varmintman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jeff Head

Ping.


16 posted on 09/08/2013 3:16:57 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Black powder rockets are not a threat to our carriers.


17 posted on 09/08/2013 3:18:53 PM PDT by Conspiracy Guy (To stay calm during these tumultuous times, I take Damitol. Ask your Doctor if it's right for you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Warfighting ping.


18 posted on 09/08/2013 3:20:27 PM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Ajnin
Everything the Chinese produce is junk.

They have the resources to make a lot of that "junk" and all you need is one piece of junk to make it through and you've got nearly $10 billion dollars worth of ship and aircraft at the bottom of the ocean, along with potentially thousands of dead Americans.

The Brits lost ships in the Falklands to what is now 40 year old technology, and the amount of technological advances over the past 40 years is staggering.

Go ahead and blow it off while you type out a reply on your Chinese-made computer that is published through your Chinese-made networking equipment, to be hosted on FR servers made up of Chinese-made hardware.

Rest assured, China is not going to engage in a physical/military war with the US - we are their biggest trading partner, and it would destroy their economy, which they've spent decades building up.

Besides, they also happen to be one of the largest holders of US debt and one of the biggest modern investors in the US in terms of land/infrastructure/businesses. They could do more damage to our nation economically with a few financial moves in a few days than they could do military-wise in a year.

You need to be a lot more worried about China's defense industry angling to take away foreign contracts from US aerospace and military manufacturers. Once they take those contracts away, those high-paying American jobs are gone for good, and our economy is in even worse shape.
19 posted on 09/08/2013 3:27:13 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: lbryce
In a conventional war the asymmetry in troop strength between China and its adversaries will make up for a lot of weaknesses.

They can't deploy those troops in any large numbers outside of mainland China. Maybe they could to South Korea since they could use the rail system, but even that is fraught with danger since they would be tied to the rails. That, and they have no reason to go to war with SK, since they are important trading partners and China's #1 concern is not having NK refugees fleeing into China.

Remember, China recently announced the use of cruise ships as troop transports. Given how easily troop transports are to sink, and how cruise ships are even easier (the Germans did it a lot with incredibly crude weapons by our standards), it's pretty clear that China has no serious plans on projecting troop power. I can't even imagine what a cruise ship heavily loaded with Chinese soldiers would look like to an American sub.
20 posted on 09/08/2013 3:32:47 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
... — part of a campaign to force an end to the ethnic cleansing of Kosovar Albanians by Serb forces — ...

That part of the story is fiction.

The prize of Klinton's dog-wagging episodes was dog-wag III (to take the Broaddrick story off the front pages) , in which a totally innocent slavic orthodox Christian nation was bombed into the stone age for the benefit of white trash, narco-terrorists, and barbarians. I mention the fact that Serbia is a slavic orthodox Christian nation because Russia is also a slavic orthodox Christian nation, i.e. because this third dog-wagging episode involved the risk of a thermonuclear war.

Any serious research into this one will reveal that the Western public was fed an unadulterated diet of BS from the NATO propaganda organ, the Clinton spin machine, and a shiftless Western establishment media which simply included the propaganda on its pages and called it news rather than doing any real reporting.  Moreover, the entire picture of the situation in the Balkans which the West has seen in its media over the last decade is rendered hugely suspect since it arises from the same kinds of sources.

Any sort of a thorough research will turn up the reality that the whole problem in Kosovo was always the Albanian Kosovars and not the Serbs.  The present problems seemingly began with Miloshevich rescinding the autonomy of the region in 1989.  The truth is that he had no options, and that all other ethnic groups in Kosovo were being brutalized by the Albanian Kosovars:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/ddj/Kosovo/articles/Binder87NYT.htm

Further readings and articles from the 80's tell much the same story:

http://members.tripod.com/~sarant_2/ksm.html

What about before that?   The truth is that, despite the endless villification and demonization which they come in for from the Clinton spin machine and the NATO propaganda arm, the Serbs are the closest thing there is to normal, rational, decent people in the balkans. They fought with the allies in WW-II and in fact held Hitler for seven months and sent him into Russia in the dead of winter rather than on schedule, but for which the whole world might be sporting swastikas now. They in fact saved 500 allied airmen who were shot down on raids over Ploesti and other targets in the region:

http://www.srpska-mreza.com/library/facts/antiFascists.html

Needless to say, any allied airman who was ever shot down over one of the states surrounding Serbia was killed.  The states surrounding Serbia all sided with Hitler, e.g.:

http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/thompson/rootsof.htm

The Serbs paid a horrific price for all of this.  Hundreds of thousands of them were murdered, many in Nazi-style death camps set up in the surrounding states.

Nonetheless, history does not count for much amongst gangsters. Clinton and his NWO pals had numerous reasons for wishing to dismantle Yugoslavia, not the least of which was the 5 - 20 trillion in mineral wealth of the Trepca mines.  Check out:

www.tenc.net

for background materials on that sort of topic.

The "Racak massacre" which Clinton and Albright used as a pretext for the NATO action turns out to be more propaganda BS:

http://www.emperors-clothes.com/analysis/meetmr.htm

and the Rambouillet ultimatum, particularly Appendix B, section 8, which the Serbs refused to sign, turns out to look like something which King George might have written.  No nation on Earth  would ever sign off on such a thing:

http://emperors-clothes.com/gilwhite/rambouillet.htm

It turns out that the entire case against Serbia was never anything but a bunch of bullshit.  There was never any "ethnic cleansing" going on:

http://www.iraqwar.org/germanreport.htm

and there was never anything remotely like genocide going on:

http://www.counterpunch.org/biglie.html

nothing but a bunch of fabricated bullshit and a bunch of poor sorry people (Serbs) having to defend themselves against an armed insurrection supported and supplied by outside powers.

The laws of war have changed substantially since the end of WW-II. The kinds of things we were doing to the Japanese and Germans, legal then, would be war crimes now.  In the Kosovo operation, American forces knew that they had a tough and dangerous adversary to deal with and they knew that they also were doing this for an utterly base and ignoble cause which they could not possibly ask any NATO pilot to die for, and that dog-wagging was again involved.  They therefore limited all operations to 15,000 feet or higher.  When they discovered that they could not harm the Serbian military from that height, they embarked upon an entire series of war crimes, such as bombing out bridges in the middle of little towns like Varvarin in the middle of the day when, guaranteed, nothing was going to be on them other than people like Sanja Milenkovic running errands.  It thus comes as no surprise that even Amnesty International is accusing NATO of war crimes now.  Aside from that, they began to bomb out the entire civilian infrastructure of Serbia, including factories, water plants, electrical grids, and basically everything the civilian population of Serbia needs to stay alive.  That's all criminal activity.

Walter Rockler, a surviving American prosecutor from the Nuremberg trubunal, claims that NATO is every bit as guilty of war crimes as the nazis were:

http://www.counterpunch.org/rockler.html

Other major kinds of indictments of Clinton, Albright, Blair, Cohen, Clark, and the other clintonistas and NATO leaders involved in this debacle are not difficult to find on the internet.

There is no such thing as a good demoKKKrat war

The only good demoKKKrat war is one which is prevented and happens only in their dreug-addled minds.

21 posted on 09/08/2013 3:40:37 PM PDT by varmintman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_rr

China owns us.

Walmart owns China.

If Walmart and other chain stores stopped buying from them, it would have major impact on their economy.


22 posted on 09/08/2013 3:43:23 PM PDT by TomGuy (.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_rr
That, and they have no reason to go to war with SK, since they are important trading partners

And Nazi Germany would never invade France, France was their #1 trading partner!

23 posted on 09/08/2013 4:04:45 PM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TomGuy
China owns us.

Walmart owns China.

If Walmart and other chain stores stopped buying from them, it would have major impact on their economy.


Walmart only cares about cheap suppliers. They openly encourage manufacturers to move American jobs overseas for cheaper prices.
24 posted on 09/08/2013 4:09:04 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: null and void
And Nazi Germany would never invade France, France was their #1 trading partner!

You left out the part I said about the reliance China has upon our economy in general - Germany was not the largest owner of French debt as China is of ours, and did not rely on the French economy to the extent that the Chinese economy relies upon ours.

In fact, Germany was in debt to France (and others) thanks to the Treaty of Versailles, and this debt, and the anger over it, helped to partly propel the Nazis into power. China, on the other hand, owns our debt.

China going to war with us would almost instantly cost them a few trillion dollars, both in American debt they own, and in investments they own in this country.

And Germany didn't spend the past 30 years building up a massive economy that relied upon France's economy just to go to war with them.

Preparing and then going to war helped German unemployment. Going to war with us would increase Chinese unemployment, and unemployed Chinese are Chinese that have nothing to do with their time other than to wander around the cities and get angry with the government. The Chinese government has a hard time controlling dissent now. Dump a hundred million unemployed Chinese on the streets, and China would fall apart.

China going to war with the US is a fantasy. They will not destroy their economy and risk the destruction of their government/country.
25 posted on 09/08/2013 4:23:04 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_rr

The American business model is broken.

We sit in America, buying nothing but imports, using money we print.

That is not how to run an economy.

We need to sell things and buy our own goods.

Now. Stop buying imports. Buy American.

Now.


26 posted on 09/08/2013 4:26:29 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_rr

I was referring to your assertion that they would never invade South Korea...


27 posted on 09/08/2013 4:41:38 PM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network

The answer is not just to “buy American”

We need to remove the bureaucratic legislation and improve the corporate tax climate in this country.

Those two things, the massive amount of legislation a business must deal with and tax environment act the same way on business specifically and the economy in general the same way barnacles impact the ability of a ship to make headway through the water.

Until we fix that, our economy is sunk, and sooner or later, the liberals will succeed in killing the golden goose.


28 posted on 09/08/2013 5:16:24 PM PDT by rlmorel (Silence: The New Hate Speech)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
yup... LORAL iirc
29 posted on 09/08/2013 5:45:50 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The New American century ended in 1999 in Serbia, before it started.

The most formidable fighting force fighting against two-bit army has shown its true colors:

After 78 days of relentless bombing under the absolute air superiority, 14 destroyed tanks, thousands of civilians murdered in deliberate targeting.

NATO has shown it's true fighting capability. Paper tiger, true war racket collecting money for nothing for years.

For example, in Kosare mountain pass, U.S. and French special forces were not able to break defense line of several thousand Serbian conscripts and reserve reenforced with a battalion of Special Forces.

But it was not the two-bit Serbian army that brought the dream of New American century to an abrupt rude awakening. The pivotal blow was brought by liberal American media. Ruskies watching AMERICAN satellite channels got first hand experience what NATO and American democracy is all about-exactly what Communist propaganda was telling them for years.

America lost Cold war victory by showing prematurely her true colors.

As a result, drunken Yeltsin and his cohort were sent to doghouse and Putin and his superiors took control of Russia wheel. Ouch.

India went "nucular".

And Chicoms got mail. And F117a to Reverse & Duplicate

(btw. CIA operative who entered "erroneous data" that resulted in killing Chinese diplomats was murdered in home invasion by Oriental looking thugs.)

The kernel of BRIC and joint defense was created in 1999.

For those who overslept history classes, Russia, China, Persia and India never were allies in the whole of known history.

As a result, Neocon plunder of Siberia never happened, and 2008 meltdown was the result.

The inability to control Pacific in 2020 will ensue.

The further developments will show the folly of attacking Serbia under false pretense of saving poor innocent Kosovo Albanian Islamic terrorists.

I hope that this post will enrage enough people to check who was involved in spreading the lies and spearheading aggression on Serbia in 1999 and what they are doing now in U.S. administration.

Show me who attacked Serbia in 1999 and I will show you who is domestic enemy of U.S.A.

30 posted on 09/08/2013 6:44:03 PM PDT by DTA (Hands off Syria !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: varmintman
You couldn’t design an easier target for a missile.

Well, except for a helicopter, of course! :)

31 posted on 09/08/2013 7:10:05 PM PDT by The Duke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Ajnin

Rule of thumb : Never underestimate your enemy , especially when they are very adept at “borrowing” industrial trade secrets & have the able & willing assistance of our own “treasonous political leadership” the combination usually leads to a lot of sorrow & dead bodies on your own side.


32 posted on 09/08/2013 7:30:55 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: null and void
I was referring to your assertion that they would never invade South Korea...

What would there be to gain by invading South Korea? Their economy would be wrecked by the US seizing all Chinese assets in the US, losing the US, Japan, and South Korea as trade partners (and possibly Vietnam since it would disrupt their part of the supply chain), having millions of North Koreans flood the border into China, and having 10s or 100s of millions of Chinese suddenly out of work and protesting in the streets?

What is so valuable in South Korea that China would destroy themselves over it?
33 posted on 09/08/2013 7:41:09 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: rlmorel

Bookmark


34 posted on 09/08/2013 7:42:54 PM PDT by publius911 (Look for the Union label, then buy something else.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: af_vet_rr

What makes you think the decision to go to war is rational?

If it were “we” wouldn’t be Hell bent to bomb Syria.


35 posted on 09/08/2013 7:48:03 PM PDT by null and void (I'm betting on an Obama Trifecta: A Nobel Peace Prize, an Impeachment, AND a War Crimes Trial...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Cringing Negativism Network
Now. Stop buying imports. Buy American.

Agreed, but the majority of Americans can't be bothered, they'd rather spend their money on cheap crap bought at Walmart.

And the worse the economy gets, the more (well less) people will spend, and Walmart will benefit over the long run.

We have the power to buy American. We choose not to exercise it, to save a buck here and there.
36 posted on 09/08/2013 7:49:25 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Nebr FAL owner
Responding to the cries 'bring manufacturing back to U.S.", late Steve Jobs tersely responded that it ain't happen.

Very few understood why. It is not motivated by the raw capitalist greed to sell devices OEMed in China for $90 for $2000 retail stateside. There is something much worse.

Chicoms control 95% of rare earth metals that are needed for the production of high tech devices and they restricted export.

Foreign companies willing to set up shop in China were given unrestricted access to rare earth metals as if they are Chinese.

As a result, Chicom R&D (reverse & duplicate) is not duplicating products, they duplicate manufacturing plants. Without any investment. Hundred of billions of dollars and hundred of millions of man-years were given to them on a platter.

Chips are made in Chicom controlled manufacturing plants.

How many end up in American weapons systems?

It is not problem when U.S. uniforms are made in China, problem is when everything else is made there. I was shocked when I saw the list of STRATEGIC materials that are no longer produced in U.S.

This is not short sightedness, this is treason.

It seems no one learns anything from history. When the world banking system was shifted from London to NYC in 1913 less than 40 years later The British Empire ceased to matter any longer.

The powers that be are propping up Chicoms and Americans fail to notice it.

37 posted on 09/08/2013 7:52:13 PM PDT by DTA (Hands off Syria !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: null and void
What makes you think the decision to go to war is rational?

If it were “we” wouldn’t be Hell bent to bomb Syria.


So China has spent the last 30 years building up their economy, an economy that relies heavily on the US, Japan, South Korea, etc. just so they can piss it all away?

China is at war with us, an economic war. Every major defense or aerospace contract they win is another battle they've won. This is a war that they are in for the long haul. And don't think Americans are ignoring it - even the Boeing CEO said a few years ago after a partnership was announced with a Chinese company, that it wouldn't be too long before Boeing found themselves competing against the very people they were partnering up with.

They have given themselves the ability to do more financial damage to our country in a week than they could ever do in an actual military conflict.

The problem is that if China wants to exercise that power, either economically or militarily, they destroy their own country.

It's more akin to the MAD doctrine that dominated the Cold War.
38 posted on 09/08/2013 7:54:21 PM PDT by af_vet_rr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: gaijin

The Serbs were using a new radar that looks for “holes” in the electromagnetic field transmitted by TV and radio towers. That radar was used to find and track and shoot down an F-117. China provided that radar to the Serbs. The bombing of the Chinese embassy was a warning. I have no proof of this but you can look up all the individual events and draw your own conclusion.


39 posted on 09/08/2013 8:11:03 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the people. T Jefferson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Blood of Tyrants
According to what I was able to find out Serbian air defense used ancient 50's radar operating in 2m band.

Stories about mystery radars using civilian TV and radio repeaters were spread to justify destruction of TV station in Belgrade and TV towers. In other words, to justify war crimes.

If such radars existed, Serbian air defense would shoot down hundreds of U.S. and NATO jets, and that did not happen.

What existed was the "lightshow" - numerous radars were operated from the same centre, each illuminating sky for less than 2 seconds and then powering off.

Radar antennas were directed toward ground and reflected beam was still strong enough to illuminate. Ground around radar stations was plowed by HARMs beyond recognition while radars remained unscathed.

Low tech and know how vs. high-tech.

40 posted on 09/08/2013 8:47:54 PM PDT by DTA (Hands off Syria !)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: varmintman

Good to see somebody here gets it. The Serbs were never our enemies until we started bombing them!


41 posted on 09/08/2013 9:00:00 PM PDT by packrat35 (Admit it! We are almost ready to be called a police state!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
Guns Against Tyranny: An armed citizenry could have prevented the Tiananmen Square massacre.

Drawing an Al-Qaeda Red Line

Germany's Energy Poverty: How Electricity Became a Luxury Good

A Fascinating Report from the Government Accountability Office (on green jobs)

Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

42 posted on 09/08/2013 9:48:40 PM PDT by neverdem (Register pressure cookers! /s)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gaijin
How likely is it that the US military programmed in the WRONG coordinates...?

Coordinates right, map datum not WGS 84, datum from map not checked or considered.

43 posted on 09/08/2013 10:00:00 PM PDT by xone
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

>> several U.S. missiles slammed into the Chinese embassy.

But none to UBL’s camp in Afghanistan...


44 posted on 09/08/2013 10:00:09 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

I’m dubious about any military threats that would not be totally counterproductive to China’s interests.


45 posted on 09/08/2013 10:03:28 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Don't be a statist!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem
The ChiComs DF-21D Vaporware has never hit anything, aside perhaps, from a rectangle in the Gobi desert. It's never hit a stationary ship or a ship moving in a straight line.
46 posted on 09/08/2013 10:22:47 PM PDT by rmlew ("Mosques are our barracks, minarets our bayonets, domes our helmets, the believers our soldiers.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: publius911

A compliment indeed...:)

But so true.


47 posted on 09/09/2013 3:08:53 AM PDT by rlmorel (Silence: The New Hate Speech)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


48 posted on 09/09/2013 7:07:25 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Article and comments, esp. # 21, # 30.

.

49 posted on 09/09/2013 10:00:43 AM PDT by LucyT
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping. I predicted several years ago that China would have anti-carrier missile capability.

From my home page...

Posted by Kevin OMalley to nickcarraway On News/Activism
01/12/2005 12:07:37 PM PST · 17 of 25

Here is my swag on what is going to happen in Taiwan, posted on an earlier thread,
“China Rapidly Modernizes for War With U.S.”.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1285398/posts

1) The one-child policy has created a testosterone-rich generation the likes of which no one on earth has ever seen. China will have an entire army of what they call “little dictators” who have few prospects of finding women, and they will be very aggressively pushing their old-guard superiors for action on the Taiwan issue. The final straw will be that they’ll be promised wives when they invade Taiwan.

2) Their army is as much as 200 Million strong, which was the size predicted in Revelation in the Bible, called “The Kings of the East.” They can afford casualties in the range of 10 million, which is 5 times bigger than our army ever was. China has some unfinished business with Vietnam, having fought to a standoff in 1979. They might do a run through Vietnam first so that their troups are more battle-hardened and arrogant, knowing that the US didn’t exactly win there. The added bonus is they get one of the largest warm water ports in the world.

3) Taiwan has never declared independence. It’s not like the brave Estonians standing up to Russia when communism fell. They’re like an impudent child claiming to have sovereignty over China. Their fatal miscalculation is that they know they’ll need Americans to fight for them if they are in a war, but Americans will be reluctant to shed blood for an ally that didn’t have the courage to declare independence until they were invaded on an “internal dispute”. The chinese will hammer away at this in the press.

4) Chinese weapons policy has been to cycle through older generations of weaponry and stay about one generation behind the latest stuff. They sold their old silkworm missiles to the Iranians and used that money to upgrade their newer missiles, which are inferior to US missiles but they only need to be functional. The plan is to overwhelm defenses with superior numbers. No ship can stand up to 50 supersonic silkworm missiles aimed at it. They have similar tactics for other systems, such as anti aircraft missiles.

5) The chinese went up against Americans in Korea. They sent in 300 thousand infantry up against a much smaller American force. The key was that they only had rifles for about 1 in 5 personnel. So they would tell one to go as far as he could till he got shot, then the 2nd one would pick up the rifle & keep charging, and so on. Today, every one of those infantrymen has an automatic rifle. They are not as well equipped as their US counterparts but they can afford a lot of casualties. Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia and other engagements proved that you can’t replace feet on the ground with air superiority. No matter how advanced the air force is nor how many smart bombs get dropped, the US won’t be able to dislodge a standing army without sending in massive troup numbers and experiencing casualties. If our press made a big deal about losing 1000 US soldiers in Iraq, they’ll have a heydey with 500 thousand casualties. Seeing the press reaction emboldens the Chinese.

6) China is building a blue-water navy including submarines. They might be able to achieve a standoff in the surrounding ocean, limiting the ability to resupply american troups while the chinese troups will pillage Taiwan. Once America loses 2 nuclear powered aircraft carriers (with the resulting radioactive plumes), the calculation is that the U.S. will lose stomach for more fighting.

7) The trick to defeating these strategies with minimal casualties will be special forces operating in Taiwan. They will need to have the ability to direct standoff weapons fire onto individual tanks and squad units in order to be effective.

8) The most likely outcome will be that Taiwan will be a giant pile of rubble. Casualties could run as high as WWII. If China wins, it could be a Pyrrhic victory. If the US wins, it will take a whole generation to repair and rebuild. I think the Chinese view towards weakness or perceived weakness is a little bit like how Germany viewed the U.S. after we sent 10,000 men wandering in the hills to find Pancho Villa, to no avail. The Germans perceived it as weakness and went ahead with their war plans.

9 posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:47:37 PM by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq — via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)

___________________________________________________________________


50 posted on 09/10/2013 5:05:35 PM PDT by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-53 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson