Skip to comments.China’s ‘Carrier-Killer’ Was Born in the Balkans
Posted on 09/08/2013 2:32:05 PM PDT by neverdem
The DF-21D is Chinas answer to Americas carriers, with an unusual origin in the Kosovo War
In 1999, the U.S. was engaged in an air and missile war with Serbia. As NATO bombs exploded around Belgrade part of a campaign to force an end to the ethnic cleansing of Kosovar Albanians by Serb forces several U.S. missiles slammed into the Chinese embassy. It was the most controversial U.S. action of the war.
Chinas leaders were outraged, but could do little in response. The result? The bombing became a pivotal moment in the decision to pursue a sophisticated weapons project: a ballistic missile that can sink American aircraft carriers from 1,900 miles away.
Thats the history according to a new book from Andrew Erickson, a specialist on the Chinese military at the U.S. Naval War College. The book has wonky title: Chinese Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile (ASBM) Development: Drivers, Trajectories and Strategic Implications. But its the most comprehensive overview of a weapon the DF-21D anti-ship ballistic missile that poses perhaps the greatest threat to American aircraft carriers thats not a nuclear bomb.
The bottom line is that the era of ASBM denial is over, Erickson writes. Chinas ASBM is not science fiction. It is not a smoke and mirrors bluff. The DF-21D is not an aspirational capability that the United States can afford to ignore until some point in the future.
Usually, carriers are incredibly tough to kill, sitting far off a coastline and outside the range of whatever most countries can throw at it. Escort ships are prowling for submarine threats, and air-defense missiles and carrier-borne fighter jets scan for enemy bombers that can launch sea-skimming cruise missiles. But a ballistic missile that can target ships can bypass all these defenses while being launched from land at the same time.
Theres still a lot of...
(Excerpt) Read more at medium.com ...
Word is that some of the functions of Milosevic’s secret police were being carried out at the Chinese Embassy as a de-facto safehouse.
The JDAM simply glides to the GPS coordinates it is supplied with:
How likely is it that the US military programmed in the WRONG coordinates...?
The Embassy was struck because it was being used as an instrument of WAR.
I didn’t agree with that war, but that’s not the point.
And be prepared for them to bomb your embassy and assets...
The Embassy was struck because it was being used as an instrument of WAR.
Everything the Chinese produce is junk. Their military is incompetent. The only advantages they have are numbers and our treasonous political leadership.
IIRC, that was a brand new Chinese embassy that was not open for business yet or only partially open.
Many speculated that there might have been ‘reasons’ it met with the ‘accident’.
In a conventional war the asymmetry in troop strength between China and its adversaries will make up for a lot of weaknesses.
Also recall that a Chinese sub came up undetected in the middle of a US fleet not so long ago.
China may be itching to try out their new bath tub toys.
what i heard was actually the downed f117 that was shot down there was not destroyed by the air force, (stupid) so they sold it to the chinese. They moved it into the embassy garage... THEN they decided it probably wouldnt be good to let the chinese have it. BOOM.
Well...the US took this action because the Chinese would deny they’d been permitting any illicit activity at their Embassy, and the US would averr their, “embarrassing mistake”.
The agreement was prolly:
1. China gets to operate ALL whizbang gear to collect the US electronic order of battle in-situ, with that take being harvested for use in some possible future conflict with the US (Straits).
2. Milo’s guys get to use some some large portion of the Embassy to do their dirty work.
But then the big, unexpected whoosh-BOOM.
“How likely is it that the US military programmed in the WRONG coordinates...?”
About as likely as NASA calculating orbital velocities in feet per second, but imputing them in meters per second thus causing a billion-dollar Martian space probe to crash on the Martian surface. Bureaucratic error. It happens. Also, nobody is shooting at the engineers at JPL while they go a out their business.
All that said, the chances of that kind of error are less than the chances that the US attack was intentional. And if it was, the Chinese certainly know the reasons for it.
Exactly. You can't claim missile malfunction when what, 3 hit? The odds of three missiles suffering the same oddball malfunction are about the same as Capt. Kirk beaming down beside me as I type this.
Putting in the wrong numbers? Highly doubtful. I don't know the procedures for loading them. But I've got to assume the basic intel would be checked, double checked, and triple checked. Then the strike approval would be checked and double checked. Finally, the target load has to have at least one check, if not several. All along the way nobody pulled up google maps and took a peek? Seems like it was intentional.
Then again, we did fly a B-52 with nuclear weapons to the wrong base. So who knows. I believe the missiles were probably in the concept / requirements stage long before that. The Chinese have always struck me as extremely practical, pragmatic, and patient when it comes to military strategy. Why spend trillions on a blue water navy (carriers, escort ships, air wings, etc.) to oppose the US fleet. A fleet with decades of a head start? Why not a fraction of the resources to build a weapon that can directly oppose the carriers. Then build out a regional navy to project influence just as far as you want to. For now.
The strike on the Chinese embassy in Belgrade had nothing to do with an aircraft carrier. It was carried out by B-2’s operating from Whiteman AFB, MO.
A carrier is a formidable weapon against a technologically inferior enemy. When used against another superpower such as Russia or China it is dead meat, as theirs would be dead meat if used against us. If you can see it from orbital altitude or know where it is by other means, you can kill it.
Aircraft carriers were problematic in WW-II, they may in fact be outmoded now. You couldn’t design an easier target for a missile.
Black powder rockets are not a threat to our carriers.
That part of the story is fiction.
The prize of Klinton's dog-wagging episodes was dog-wag III (to take the Broaddrick story off the front pages) , in which a totally innocent slavic orthodox Christian nation was bombed into the stone age for the benefit of white trash, narco-terrorists, and barbarians. I mention the fact that Serbia is a slavic orthodox Christian nation because Russia is also a slavic orthodox Christian nation, i.e. because this third dog-wagging episode involved the risk of a thermonuclear war.
Any serious research into this one will reveal that the Western public was fed an unadulterated diet of BS from the NATO propaganda organ, the Clinton spin machine, and a shiftless Western establishment media which simply included the propaganda on its pages and called it news rather than doing any real reporting. Moreover, the entire picture of the situation in the Balkans which the West has seen in its media over the last decade is rendered hugely suspect since it arises from the same kinds of sources.
Any sort of a thorough research will turn up the reality that the whole problem in Kosovo was always the Albanian Kosovars and not the Serbs. The present problems seemingly began with Miloshevich rescinding the autonomy of the region in 1989. The truth is that he had no options, and that all other ethnic groups in Kosovo were being brutalized by the Albanian Kosovars:
Further readings and articles from the 80's tell much the same story:
What about before that? The truth is that, despite the endless villification and demonization which they come in for from the Clinton spin machine and the NATO propaganda arm, the Serbs are the closest thing there is to normal, rational, decent people in the balkans. They fought with the allies in WW-II and in fact held Hitler for seven months and sent him into Russia in the dead of winter rather than on schedule, but for which the whole world might be sporting swastikas now. They in fact saved 500 allied airmen who were shot down on raids over Ploesti and other targets in the region:
Needless to say, any allied airman who was ever shot down over one of the states surrounding Serbia was killed. The states surrounding Serbia all sided with Hitler, e.g.:
The Serbs paid a horrific price for all of this. Hundreds of thousands of them were murdered, many in Nazi-style death camps set up in the surrounding states.
Nonetheless, history does not count for much amongst gangsters. Clinton and his NWO pals had numerous reasons for wishing to dismantle Yugoslavia, not the least of which was the 5 - 20 trillion in mineral wealth of the Trepca mines. Check out:
for background materials on that sort of topic.
The "Racak massacre" which Clinton and Albright used as a pretext for the NATO action turns out to be more propaganda BS:
and the Rambouillet ultimatum, particularly Appendix B, section 8, which the Serbs refused to sign, turns out to look like something which King George might have written. No nation on Earth would ever sign off on such a thing:
It turns out that the entire case against Serbia was never anything but a bunch of bullshit. There was never any "ethnic cleansing" going on:
and there was never anything remotely like genocide going on:
nothing but a bunch of fabricated bullshit and a bunch of poor sorry people (Serbs) having to defend themselves against an armed insurrection supported and supplied by outside powers.
The laws of war have changed substantially since the end of WW-II. The kinds of things we were doing to the Japanese and Germans, legal then, would be war crimes now. In the Kosovo operation, American forces knew that they had a tough and dangerous adversary to deal with and they knew that they also were doing this for an utterly base and ignoble cause which they could not possibly ask any NATO pilot to die for, and that dog-wagging was again involved. They therefore limited all operations to 15,000 feet or higher. When they discovered that they could not harm the Serbian military from that height, they embarked upon an entire series of war crimes, such as bombing out bridges in the middle of little towns like Varvarin in the middle of the day when, guaranteed, nothing was going to be on them other than people like Sanja Milenkovic running errands. It thus comes as no surprise that even Amnesty International is accusing NATO of war crimes now. Aside from that, they began to bomb out the entire civilian infrastructure of Serbia, including factories, water plants, electrical grids, and basically everything the civilian population of Serbia needs to stay alive. That's all criminal activity.
Walter Rockler, a surviving American prosecutor from the Nuremberg trubunal, claims that NATO is every bit as guilty of war crimes as the nazis were:
Other major kinds of indictments of Clinton, Albright, Blair, Cohen, Clark, and the other clintonistas and NATO leaders involved in this debacle are not difficult to find on the internet.
The only good demoKKKrat war is one which is prevented and happens only in their dreug-addled minds.
China owns us.
Walmart owns China.
If Walmart and other chain stores stopped buying from them, it would have major impact on their economy.
And Nazi Germany would never invade France, France was their #1 trading partner!
The American business model is broken.
We sit in America, buying nothing but imports, using money we print.
That is not how to run an economy.
We need to sell things and buy our own goods.
Now. Stop buying imports. Buy American.
I was referring to your assertion that they would never invade South Korea...
The answer is not just to “buy American”
We need to remove the bureaucratic legislation and improve the corporate tax climate in this country.
Those two things, the massive amount of legislation a business must deal with and tax environment act the same way on business specifically and the economy in general the same way barnacles impact the ability of a ship to make headway through the water.
Until we fix that, our economy is sunk, and sooner or later, the liberals will succeed in killing the golden goose.
The most formidable fighting force fighting against two-bit army has shown its true colors:
After 78 days of relentless bombing under the absolute air superiority, 14 destroyed tanks, thousands of civilians murdered in deliberate targeting.
NATO has shown it's true fighting capability. Paper tiger, true war racket collecting money for nothing for years.
For example, in Kosare mountain pass, U.S. and French special forces were not able to break defense line of several thousand Serbian conscripts and reserve reenforced with a battalion of Special Forces.
But it was not the two-bit Serbian army that brought the dream of New American century to an abrupt rude awakening. The pivotal blow was brought by liberal American media. Ruskies watching AMERICAN satellite channels got first hand experience what NATO and American democracy is all about-exactly what Communist propaganda was telling them for years.
America lost Cold war victory by showing prematurely her true colors.
As a result, drunken Yeltsin and his cohort were sent to doghouse and Putin and his superiors took control of Russia wheel. Ouch.
India went "nucular".
And Chicoms got mail. And F117a to Reverse & Duplicate
(btw. CIA operative who entered "erroneous data" that resulted in killing Chinese diplomats was murdered in home invasion by Oriental looking thugs.)
The kernel of BRIC and joint defense was created in 1999.
For those who overslept history classes, Russia, China, Persia and India never were allies in the whole of known history.
As a result, Neocon plunder of Siberia never happened, and 2008 meltdown was the result.
The inability to control Pacific in 2020 will ensue.
The further developments will show the folly of attacking Serbia under false pretense of saving poor innocent Kosovo Albanian Islamic terrorists.
I hope that this post will enrage enough people to check who was involved in spreading the lies and spearheading aggression on Serbia in 1999 and what they are doing now in U.S. administration.
Show me who attacked Serbia in 1999 and I will show you who is domestic enemy of U.S.A.
Well, except for a helicopter, of course! :)
Rule of thumb : Never underestimate your enemy , especially when they are very adept at “borrowing” industrial trade secrets & have the able & willing assistance of our own “treasonous political leadership” the combination usually leads to a lot of sorrow & dead bodies on your own side.
What makes you think the decision to go to war is rational?
If it were “we” wouldn’t be Hell bent to bomb Syria.
Very few understood why. It is not motivated by the raw capitalist greed to sell devices OEMed in China for $90 for $2000 retail stateside. There is something much worse.
Chicoms control 95% of rare earth metals that are needed for the production of high tech devices and they restricted export.
Foreign companies willing to set up shop in China were given unrestricted access to rare earth metals as if they are Chinese.
As a result, Chicom R&D (reverse & duplicate) is not duplicating products, they duplicate manufacturing plants. Without any investment. Hundred of billions of dollars and hundred of millions of man-years were given to them on a platter.
Chips are made in Chicom controlled manufacturing plants.
How many end up in American weapons systems?
It is not problem when U.S. uniforms are made in China, problem is when everything else is made there. I was shocked when I saw the list of STRATEGIC materials that are no longer produced in U.S.
This is not short sightedness, this is treason.
It seems no one learns anything from history. When the world banking system was shifted from London to NYC in 1913 less than 40 years later The British Empire ceased to matter any longer.
The powers that be are propping up Chicoms and Americans fail to notice it.
The Serbs were using a new radar that looks for “holes” in the electromagnetic field transmitted by TV and radio towers. That radar was used to find and track and shoot down an F-117. China provided that radar to the Serbs. The bombing of the Chinese embassy was a warning. I have no proof of this but you can look up all the individual events and draw your own conclusion.
Stories about mystery radars using civilian TV and radio repeaters were spread to justify destruction of TV station in Belgrade and TV towers. In other words, to justify war crimes.
If such radars existed, Serbian air defense would shoot down hundreds of U.S. and NATO jets, and that did not happen.
What existed was the "lightshow" - numerous radars were operated from the same centre, each illuminating sky for less than 2 seconds and then powering off.
Radar antennas were directed toward ground and reflected beam was still strong enough to illuminate. Ground around radar stations was plowed by HARMs beyond recognition while radars remained unscathed.
Low tech and know how vs. high-tech.
Good to see somebody here gets it. The Serbs were never our enemies until we started bombing them!
Some noteworthy articles about politics, foreign or military affairs, IMHO, FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.
Coordinates right, map datum not WGS 84, datum from map not checked or considered.
>> several U.S. missiles slammed into the Chinese embassy.
But none to UBL’s camp in Afghanistan...
I’m dubious about any military threats that would not be totally counterproductive to China’s interests.
A compliment indeed...:)
But so true.
Thanks for the ping!
Thanks for the ping. I predicted several years ago that China would have anti-carrier missile capability.
From my home page...
Posted by Kevin OMalley to nickcarraway On News/Activism
01/12/2005 12:07:37 PM PST · 17 of 25
Here is my swag on what is going to happen in Taiwan, posted on an earlier thread,
China Rapidly Modernizes for War With U.S..
1) The one-child policy has created a testosterone-rich generation the likes of which no one on earth has ever seen. China will have an entire army of what they call little dictators who have few prospects of finding women, and they will be very aggressively pushing their old-guard superiors for action on the Taiwan issue. The final straw will be that theyll be promised wives when they invade Taiwan.
2) Their army is as much as 200 Million strong, which was the size predicted in Revelation in the Bible, called The Kings of the East. They can afford casualties in the range of 10 million, which is 5 times bigger than our army ever was. China has some unfinished business with Vietnam, having fought to a standoff in 1979. They might do a run through Vietnam first so that their troups are more battle-hardened and arrogant, knowing that the US didnt exactly win there. The added bonus is they get one of the largest warm water ports in the world.
3) Taiwan has never declared independence. Its not like the brave Estonians standing up to Russia when communism fell. Theyre like an impudent child claiming to have sovereignty over China. Their fatal miscalculation is that they know theyll need Americans to fight for them if they are in a war, but Americans will be reluctant to shed blood for an ally that didnt have the courage to declare independence until they were invaded on an internal dispute. The chinese will hammer away at this in the press.
4) Chinese weapons policy has been to cycle through older generations of weaponry and stay about one generation behind the latest stuff. They sold their old silkworm missiles to the Iranians and used that money to upgrade their newer missiles, which are inferior to US missiles but they only need to be functional. The plan is to overwhelm defenses with superior numbers. No ship can stand up to 50 supersonic silkworm missiles aimed at it. They have similar tactics for other systems, such as anti aircraft missiles.
5) The chinese went up against Americans in Korea. They sent in 300 thousand infantry up against a much smaller American force. The key was that they only had rifles for about 1 in 5 personnel. So they would tell one to go as far as he could till he got shot, then the 2nd one would pick up the rifle & keep charging, and so on. Today, every one of those infantrymen has an automatic rifle. They are not as well equipped as their US counterparts but they can afford a lot of casualties. Vietnam, Iraq, Somalia and other engagements proved that you cant replace feet on the ground with air superiority. No matter how advanced the air force is nor how many smart bombs get dropped, the US wont be able to dislodge a standing army without sending in massive troup numbers and experiencing casualties. If our press made a big deal about losing 1000 US soldiers in Iraq, theyll have a heydey with 500 thousand casualties. Seeing the press reaction emboldens the Chinese.
6) China is building a blue-water navy including submarines. They might be able to achieve a standoff in the surrounding ocean, limiting the ability to resupply american troups while the chinese troups will pillage Taiwan. Once America loses 2 nuclear powered aircraft carriers (with the resulting radioactive plumes), the calculation is that the U.S. will lose stomach for more fighting.
7) The trick to defeating these strategies with minimal casualties will be special forces operating in Taiwan. They will need to have the ability to direct standoff weapons fire onto individual tanks and squad units in order to be effective.
8) The most likely outcome will be that Taiwan will be a giant pile of rubble. Casualties could run as high as WWII. If China wins, it could be a Pyrrhic victory. If the US wins, it will take a whole generation to repair and rebuild. I think the Chinese view towards weakness or perceived weakness is a little bit like how Germany viewed the U.S. after we sent 10,000 men wandering in the hills to find Pancho Villa, to no avail. The Germans perceived it as weakness and went ahead with their war plans.
9 posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 9:47:37 PM by Kevmo (We should withdraw from Iraq via Tehran. And Duncan Hunter is just the man to get that job done.)