Posted on 09/03/2013 1:59:55 PM PDT by markomalley
There is an essential difference between gathering intelligence and search and seizure.
Intelligence gathering of innocuous behavior can never be used for probable cause. Intelligence gathering that detects suspicious behavior should lead to more intelligence gathering. Lots of suspicious behavior may result in probable cause, and hence lead to a search.
When the President does it, it is legal. (per Nixon)
Search and Seizure occurs after probable cause.
Information from Search and Seizure can be used as evidence.
In between is where our liberties lie. We do not have a right to not have intelligence collection agencies look at us. We don’t have a right to not have legitimately obtained evidence used against us in court.
Terrorists try to operate in that seam. That is why intelligence gathering has to be permitted to collect information without probable cause: Terrorists will try to avoid giving probable cause justifications.
Intelligence plus foreign terrorist links to me provides probable cause. The boston bombers should have been picked up because of their foreign terrorist links. Hasan, the fort Hood shooter should have been picked up because of his foreign terrorist links. Those links shoulc have been found by intelligence, and would have provided the probable cause.
Perhaps you could put your reply in simpler terms? A president’s oath is still an oath regardless of this dictator’s flagrant disregard for the laws of our country. Please decipher your reply for this GED onlooker. Thanks.
If Manning is pardoned, set free, he can be hung
President takes oath to uphold constitution.
Included in constitution are restrictions on search and seizure.
Not included in search is non invasive monitoring where privacy is not expected. If you have a conversation with the checkout clerk at the supermarket, and a government agent listens to it, that would be admissible.
Not included in seizure is the generation of a copy of something you have. If you have a Honda Civic, and the government wants to know if a beach ball will fit inside, it would be illegal for them to take your Honda Civic to test it unless they had a warrant and probable cause to get the warrant. It would not be illegal for them to take their beach ball to a dealership and test one on the show room floor. They knew you drove a Honda Civic because you drove out your driveway in it, where no privacy was expected.
You lose your right to privacy when you agree to send your information to a third party, say, an internet provider. The NSA is not searching you if they have access to what you agreed with your internet provider is not private. They didn’t seize the contents of your email if they make a copy of it.
Thanks for taking the time to explain all this though I’m not entirely happy that lawyers are able to make common talk into fluff that requires another lawyer to decipher it. Good make work technique. Thanks again!
Engineers have made many careers out of taking lawyerese legal requirements, laws of physics, and material properties and making products that are useful and intuitive to people who have no interest in any of the above subjects.
That is what we do.
Thought you might like this fluff piece designed to pacify those wanting explanations...in this case a doctor’s patient. I understand it’s a form letter for some complaint departments. Hope you like it!
Most earnest thanks for the good thought and your interest in me. I hope you will be persuaded to trust certain assurances-namely, that I am abundantly glad to have your notice that my practice would be pointless without your continued favor, that I am never anything less than cheered by the prospect of the day’s mail and the new challenges it will put before me, that I give every attention to every piece of correspondence.
My office has the good luck to have received your letter, that it came directly into my hands and was considered only by me, that I made every effort to open my heart and my mind every time I open an envelope, that I do not look at cover letters and the like and am concerned to discover what I think and feel solely in relation to the complaint that I am currently in receipt of somewhere between 100 and 200 such correspondences, that in instance does the provenance of a complaint have the remotest bearing on its fortunes, that I never tire of seeing complaints from anyone, that I welcome the opportunity to see communications of every of every stripe, that I understand I will thrive only by seeing complaints have not seen and whose character could not even guess at, that I can be counted on to hold myself in a state of readiness to be instructed, widened, surprised, refreshed.
One last remark: Apart from those intervals when I must be away from my desk for either a holiday or a lecture somewhere distant-I will always do all I can to honor my promise to post a response to a complaint no later than one week subsequent to receipt.
Again, you have my thanks for the great gesture of your offer, I know it will cost you money and bother, and I am not at all unalert to the harsh cost levied against the wealth of the patient’s spirit whenever the outcome of therapy goes contrary to wishes. I do wish it might have this time been otherwise. Yours in medical service.
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