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Dems divided over immigration “Plan B”
Washington Post ^ | Aug 16, 2013 | By Greg Sargent

Posted on 08/16/2013 7:45:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

A behind the scenes argument has broken out among Democrats and immigration advocates in the wake of public discussion of a so-called “Plan B” on immigration, in which advocates would press the White House to legalize millions of undocumented immigrants via executive authority if Congress fails to act.

Some have pushed the “Plan B” idea in the media to increase pressure on Republicans to support legislative reform, by getting them to fear Obama would legalize the 11 million himself if they don’t do it on their own terms. But others — including, sources say, the White House — think floating the idea is not only substantively absurd, but is also politically a mistake, because it only takes the pressure off Republicans on immigration by allowing them to slip back into fight-Obama-tyranny-at-all-costs mode.

The “Plan B” idea has generated a lot of attention lately, and for good reason: it’s pretty dramatic stuff.

The idea — most recently given a big public push by Marco Rubio — is that if Republicans can’t support immigration reform, then they should fear Obama using his executive authority to legalize the 11 million, just as he did with the DREAMers. Rubio warned fellow Republicans that if they don’t embrace reform, “a year from now we could find ourselves with all 11 million people here legally through an executive order from the president.”

Some immigration advocates have also echoed this idea. Frank Sharry, the head of pro-immigration America’s Voice, recently reacted to Rubio’s comments by claiming that if Republicans punt on reform, “immigration reform advocates are going to do what we did in 2011 and 2012, which is to pressure Obama to use his authority — which is expansive in this area.”

But some inside the immigration reform movement are calling on folks to shut up...

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 12milliontaxpayers; aliens; amnesty; betrayal; illegalimmigration; immigration; obama; randnesty; randsconcerntrolls; rubio; traitors
FUBO!! FUMR!! We will not forget and we will not forgive your betrayal!!
1 posted on 08/16/2013 7:45:39 PM PDT by Jim Robinson
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To: Jim Robinson

I just realized that Marco Rubio has the same initials as Mitt Romney.


2 posted on 08/16/2013 7:52:33 PM PDT by Impy (RED=COMMUNIST, NOT REPUBLICAN)
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To: Jim Robinson

Considering this is how they want to legislate anyway, why even bother with Congress anyway?
We already live in an autocratic kleptocracy, they at least should man up and admit it!


3 posted on 08/16/2013 7:53:22 PM PDT by Darksheare (Try my coffee, first one's free.....)
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"Immigration is not sparking a fiery backlash in the Republican base like it once did, so switching the focus to what Obama might or might not do just doesn’t make sense,”

Now don't you bet your life on that. ~~ John Wayne

4 posted on 08/16/2013 7:53:52 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Impy

It’s a twofer double entendre: FReep U MR!!


5 posted on 08/16/2013 7:55:30 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson

Wow preemption of the Constitution by Executive order. Can a sitting resident be recalled by a vote of actual U.S. Citizens or do we have to depend on our castrated reprehensibles in the House and Senate to continue failing to follow their sworn oaths?


6 posted on 08/16/2013 7:55:49 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: Jim Robinson

What does Reggie Love have to say about this? i trust him the most plus he is privy to Obama’s inside baseball


7 posted on 08/16/2013 7:56:51 PM PDT by dennisw (The first principle is to find out who you are then you can achieve anything -- Buddhist monk)
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To: Mastador1

May require a serious march on DC at some point.


8 posted on 08/16/2013 7:57:07 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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To: Jim Robinson
getting them to fear Obama would legalize the 11 million himself

. . . for which the only answer would likely be to get 0bummer to "fear" being overthrown, like any banana dictator. Sometimes you get the idea folks don't know the waters they're heading into.

9 posted on 08/16/2013 7:58:51 PM PDT by SamuraiScot
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To: Jim Robinson

“Tomorrow hopes we have learned something from yesterday.”
John Wayne


10 posted on 08/16/2013 8:00:46 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: All armed conservatives.)
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To: Jim Robinson

How about Plan “C” . Impeach this fake of a President and deport his sorry ass Back to Kenya. The Moose and her brood can stay, just as long as they stay within the confines of the City Limits of Chicongo.


11 posted on 08/16/2013 8:07:38 PM PDT by wetgundog (" Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is no Vice")
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To: Jim Robinson; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; ...
RE :”The “Plan B” idea has generated a lot of attention lately, and for good reason: it’s pretty dramatic stuff.
The idea — most recently given a big public push by Marco Rubio — is that if Republicans can’t support immigration reform, then they should fear Obama using his executive authority to legalize the 11 million, just as he did with the DREAMers. Rubio warned fellow Republicans that if they don’t embrace reform, “a year from now we could find ourselves with all 11 million people here legally through an executive order from the president.”

More Rubio twisted logic.

Obama cant legalize them anymore than he can repeal parts of Obama-care, but he can and does refuse to enforce the laws,
That does NOT give them citizenship and the vote.

Alternatively Rubio’s Senate bill gives them citizenship and the vote.

Another empty Rubio threat made to look critical of Obama.

12 posted on 08/16/2013 8:12:17 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Why do we need a Congress if obamma does whatever he wants through executive orders??


13 posted on 08/16/2013 8:14:37 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: sickoflibs

Isn’t it shocking how so many of these people have been lying to us for years and we actually believed them. I feel like Alice going through the looking glass.


14 posted on 08/16/2013 8:24:44 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: cradle of freedom
RE :”Isn’t it shocking how so many of these people have been lying to us for years and we actually believed them. I feel like Alice going through the looking glass.”

I know Rubio lied to get elected and said he was against legalization.

anyone else you have in mind?

15 posted on 08/16/2013 8:33:08 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: cradle of freedom
RE :”Isn’t it shocking how so many of these people have been lying to us for years and we actually believed them. I feel like Alice going through the looking glass.”

I know Rubio lied to get elected and said he was against legalization.

anyone else you have in mind?

16 posted on 08/16/2013 8:33:08 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Jim Robinson

Make broncobama do it. Do not pass the bill. This is a rubio threat. FUMR.


17 posted on 08/16/2013 8:39:28 PM PDT by quimby
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To: Jim Robinson

So, like the dreamers, Obama will let them work in the USA for 2 years - then what?


18 posted on 08/16/2013 8:42:22 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Kill Obamacare not wound it.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; stephenjohnbanker; Gilbo_3; NFHale; Impy; Liz; Clintonfatigued; ...

Since Obama announced a year ago before the election that he was doing this, its plan A not plan B.

What Dems are worried about is if Obama does this for many times more than he is now then if a bunch of them turn up in jail. murder, rape, drunk driving, drugs, its not going to help promote amnesty.


19 posted on 08/16/2013 9:29:54 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs; Jim Robinson; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS
Obama cant legalize them anymore than he can repeal parts of Obama-care, but he can and does refuse to enforce the laws, That does NOT give them citizenship and the vote.

Clearly passing legislation Rubio wants is insane. But if Obama's USCIS started giving out citizenship certificates, who would stop them?

20 posted on 08/16/2013 11:38:46 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Jim Robinson; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS
RE :”Obama cant legalize them anymore than he can repeal parts of Obama-care, but he can and does refuse to enforce the laws, That does NOT give them citizenship and the vote.
.....
Clearly passing legislation Rubio wants is insane. But if Obama’s USCIS started giving out citizenship certificates, who would stop them?

That is not even suggested by the Rubio threat or what Dems are asking Obama to do. There is no law that Obama can not enforce that will give illegals legal citizenship
(the SCOTUS said they will not tell the POTUS how to enforce the law which is not the same as letting him grant citizenship on a whim.) .

But lets imagine that Obama can just make anyone he wants a US voting citizen at his whim.
If that was the case then why should we waste time and effort opposing the amnesty bill? In fact why would Dems put so much effort into passing an amnesty bill if Obama can make them legal voters?

No, I say Rubio/Obama are bluffing and that we not give in to them.

21 posted on 08/17/2013 12:03:38 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Impy
I just realized that Marco Rubio has the same initials as Mitt Romney.

Calling someone an MR was an insult ehen I was a kid.

22 posted on 08/17/2013 4:20:43 AM PDT by D Rider
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To: sickoflibs; Jim Robinson; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker
There is no law that Obama can not enforce that will give illegals legal citizenship (the SCOTUS said they will not tell the POTUS how to enforce the law which is not the same as letting him grant citizenship on a whim.).

How about Obama's DACA EO giving out work permits? Seems to me that goes beyond "not enforcing the law," and there was no real opposition to his doing so. Giving out citizenship would be a much more serious matter, but I believe he has already gone beyond his legal authority.

But lets imagine that Obama can just make anyone he wants a US voting citizen at his whim. If that was the case then why should we waste time and effort opposing the amnesty bill? In fact why would Dems put so much effort into passing an amnesty bill if Obama can make them legal voters?

"I tried to convince Congress to pass comprehensive immigration reform but they refused, so...."

No, I say Rubio/Obama are bluffing and that we not give in to them.

Not sure whether he would give out citizenship, but I agree, giving in would be foolish.

23 posted on 08/17/2013 4:53:05 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs

why would Dems put so much effort into passing an amnesty bill if Obama can make them legal voters?
_____________________________________________

that-guy-in-my-White-House TM can make them voters but it wont be legal..


24 posted on 08/17/2013 5:19:23 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: sickoflibs
No, I say Rubio/Obama are bluffing and that we not give in to them.

bump

25 posted on 08/17/2013 5:26:55 AM PDT by VRW Conspirator (Producing Talk Show Prep since 1998.)
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To: Jim Robinson
a year from now we could find ourselves with all 11 million people here legally through an executive order from the president

0bama's executive order is not law. They would still be illegal.

At what point do we as a people stand up and say "NO!" At what point do we have the courage to demand that our elected officials obey the laws that they passed? By what means do we make that demand? We need to start considering this, carefully and soon. Otherwise we really will be in a dictatorship.

26 posted on 08/17/2013 5:33:09 AM PDT by Hardastarboard (Buck Off, Bronco Bama)
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To: sickoflibs
8/16/13 Obama Presidency A Lengthening Legacy Of Lawlessness
Investors.com ^ | August 16, 2013 | Editorial / FR Posted by jazusamo

Obama's approval numbers are now hitting record lows, yet his critics are often written off as simple- minded "Obama haters." It doesn't wash. The problem is a pattern of presidential lawlessness.

Last time we checked, the Constitution requires the president to "faithfully execute the law." That's no editorial opinion, but Article 2, Section 3, Clause 5 of the U.S. Constitution, which states that "(The President) shall take care that the Laws be faithfully executed."

Our founders conceived and established in that document three co-equal branches of government to preserve our individual liberty and restrain the unlimited power of government. But this president and his administration have routinely ignored the divisions of power between the presidency, the Congress and its legislation, and the Supreme Court and its rulings. Constitutionally, the president has the authority to check the legislative branch by recommending legislation to be passed by Congress or through the presidential veto.

But he cannot legislate through executive fiat and he can't pick and choose which parts of the law he will comply with or decline. Nor can he defy judicial rulings from the highest court in the land. But that's what he's done. In just the latest example, President Obama's Attorney General Eric Holder has directed federal prosecutors to conceal the amount of drugs seized during an arrest to circumvent mandatory minimum sentences set by Congress in 1986.

Whether one agrees with that law or not, its legal authority lies within the constitutional powers of Congress, not the executive branch. And that's the issue. It's part of a growing litany of presidential lawlessness:

• Aug. 14, 2013: The Obama administration delayed the provision in ObamaCare to cap out-of-pocket health care costs, picking and choosing parts of the law to enforce, which is to exceed its authority. (Excerpt) Read more at news.investors.com ...

27 posted on 08/17/2013 6:41:49 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Hardastarboard
I'm not sure we can. Do we have a megaphone to do so? No.

People like Anderson Cooper, Chris Matthews and Oprah Winfrey, to name just a few, have all the megaphones.

George Soros creates and richly finance organizations that can bend the ears of Capitol Hill potentates.

The Hollyweird Left produces propaganda to ensure the low information voters (LIV) know just how evil conservatives are. They use their billions of $, along with the Technology Kings (Zuckermann, Bezos, Ted Turner, etc.) to promote and keep democrats in power.

Science calls us deniers because we want more proof that we should just wreck the economy and ruin the lives of millions of people over a “threat” that's natural and has been present on Earth for millions of years.

Academia indoctrinates our youth from 5 years old to 22 on how rotten and awful the rich, America, and Christianity is.

I just don't have much hope. I can't understand why we (meaning our political philosophy) seems to have no power. Four years ago, our outrage grew to the point of boil-over and the TEA Party was born. We fought back, in protest and town hall.

The answer from the Left was easy. They got Anderson Cooper and his megaphone to call us “Teabaggers”. Congressman Elijah Cummings said protesters spit on him and called him the N-Word when he and Nancy's minions took their power walk with giant gavel to rub our faces in it. They used ALL the power the megaphones had, media and Hollyweird, to attack, denigrate and make a laughing stock out of the TEA party and it worked.

Now, right before our eyes, we see the megaphones ignoring the murders in Benghazi and the shameful, lying Susan Rice going on ALL the Sunday shows and not telling the American people the truth and they don't mind.

We see the IRS, NSA, FBI and other federal agencies breaking the law for political gain and just whatever else (reasons and the depth of it we can only just speculate on) that would make Richard Nixon blush and the megaphones just yawn and the LIV gets a sad, young boy named Trayvon to take their minds off things.

I have no answer. We could fight back, but we need money, and lots of it. We need our own megaphones--Rush, etc. are not enough.

We need to force the megaphones to report on us. Things like Rand Paul's "filibuster" should be weekly occurrences, but it's as if our side doesn't care.

Our side! Is it?

I have to conclude if they're not against the Left, they are... For them?!

The Left let two from "our" side have a megaphone, McCain and Graham, because they can always be depended on to eat their own. Whackobirds, anyone?

Is Boehner and his leadership so afraid of the megaphones that they won't fight, or are they secretly in agreement with the Left on things?

There's so much more and I am outraged beyond belief but I have no answer. Men much more powerful than me refuse to take a stand--how can I?

28 posted on 08/17/2013 6:49:57 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
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To: sickoflibs

Too many to mention. Too many liars, not enough truth tellers.


29 posted on 08/17/2013 4:16:24 PM PDT by cradle of freedom (Long live the Republic !)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker; ...
RE :”Not sure whether he would give out citizenship, but I agree, giving in would be foolish. <“

If Obama could and would give out US citizenship then Rubio in the above post would be right. We would be better off with the Senate bill than him doing that.

Obama will grant US citizenship by exec order and get away with it when he signs that full repeal of Obama-care, which is never.
I see no point in playing the game ‘Lets just assume that Obama is King of the US and we are all his subjects” because its a dead end.

30 posted on 08/17/2013 7:53:52 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Alas Babylon!

What you say is very disheartening, but it’s also very true.

I do believe, however, that there is a deep disgust and hatred of political correctness in this country, and a disconnect between the views of most Americans and the way those views are marginalized. For example, most Americans oppose racial preferences, and oppose increasing legal immigration into this country. Yet the various organs of the Left will call anyone championing such views racist (or at least strongly imply it). When they do this, they are by extension calling most Americans racist, and xenophobic, and anti-immigrant, an so on. I don’t think most Americans appreciate this, but they have very few standing up for them.

If the right person came along, I think they could tap into that justified anger and frustration, and turn the Left’s advantages against them.

Or maybe not. I don’t know. It is increasingly depressing that the Republican party is increasingly worthless on so many of these issue.


31 posted on 08/17/2013 9:31:57 PM PDT by Aetius
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To: sickoflibs; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker
If Obama could and would give out US citizenship then Rubio in the above post would be right. We would be better off with the Senate bill than him doing that.

I do not agree with "better off." Passing the senate bill would give Obama and the RINOs Constitutional legitimacy. By no means am I agreeing with Rubio.

However, your phrase "could and would" also implies that the US public would no longer care whether Obama is a tyrannical monarch.

He already invented new "executive legislation" (as if legislation by the courts was not bad enough) in giving out work permits in the DACA EO, but perhaps the public let it slide because it was supposedly limited to Dreamers. I am hoping you are right that Obama does not think he could get away with giving away citizenship. I say, watch what he, Hillary, and RINOs do carefully, and oppose them with all our power.

32 posted on 08/17/2013 10:58:00 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker
RE :”I do not agree with “better off.” Passing the senate bill would give Obama and the RINOs Constitutional legitimacy. “

Are you saying that Constitutional legitimacy matters to the Dems? That they are holding their hopes out on the House passing amnesty for that, when Obama can just sign a piece of paper and make them all voters?

If Obama can make illegals voting citizens on the spot then why wouldn't he have done it sooner?
They would all vote Dem.

He would be King. And then we should all move on to entertainment like the rest because its hopeless.

Didnt the SCOTUS just throw out that section of voting rights act that has Dems in a tizzy? The one that the GOP congress and POTUS passed in 2006?

33 posted on 08/17/2013 11:24:45 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker

Now after Hillary as POTUS replaces justice Kennedy in her first or second term she will be able to do anything she wants as the evil Queen, including deem citizenship.

But that is still a few years away.


34 posted on 08/17/2013 11:42:11 PM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US Citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs; Liz; cripplecreek; Tennessee Nana; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker
Are you saying that Constitutional legitimacy matters to the Dems?

Only as the path of least resistance. If Congress had passed a Dream Act then he would not have had to do the EO. But that would have meant the GOP had opened its trenchcoat all the way, exposing hideous treason for all to see.

That they are holding their hopes out on the House passing amnesty for that,

That may or may not be true. I never claimed either.

when Obama can just sign a piece of paper and make them all voters?

I never said that Obama was going to give out citizenship via fiat. I said that if he did, it was not clear to me who would stop him, considering all his lawless acts done with impunity.

If Obama can make illegals voting citizens on the spot then why wouldn't he have done it sooner? They would all vote Dem.

I already posted a reason why that might be what they are doing. Let me try again. When he issued DACA, he claimed it was because Congress had not acted. "In the absence of any immigration action from Congress to fix our broken immigration system, what we’ve tried to do is focus our immigration enforcement resources in the right places....Effective immediately, the Department of Homeland Security is taking steps to lift the shadow of deportation from these young people."

You see, before blaming the GOP, he has to prove that they won't pass what he wants.

Yes, there are arguments for his not giving out citizenship. For example, DACA did not have citizenship, and the entire illegal population is not as cute and cuddly as the Dreamers. Also, they may be thinking that it's just a matter of time until the GOP, with enough bribes and arm twisting, caves.

35 posted on 08/18/2013 4:08:48 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs

Emancipation proclamation proclamation was identical to the amnesty proposed.

Emancipation was an illegal taking


36 posted on 08/18/2013 5:05:40 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Travon... Felony assault and battery hate crime)
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