A Point of View: Is democracy overrated?

BBC ^ | 9 Aug 2013 | Roger Scruton

[Cronos]

For some time, the leading Western nations have acted upon the assumption that democracy is the solution to political conflict, and that the ultimate goal of foreign policy must be to encourage the emergence of democracy in countries which have not yet enjoyed its benefits. And they continue to adhere to this assumption, even when considering events in the Middle East today. We can easily sympathise with it. For democracies do not, in general, go to war with each other, and do not, in general, experience civil war within their borders. Where the people can choose their government, there is a safety valve that prevents conflicts from over-heating. Unpopular governments are rejected without violence.

... Democracy was introduced into Russia without any adequate protection for human rights. And many human rights were protected in 19th Century Britain long before the emergence of anything that we would call democracy. In the Middle East today, we find parties standing for election, like the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, which regards an electoral victory as the opportunity to crush dissent and impose a way of life that for many citizens is simply unacceptable. In such circumstances democracy is a threat to human rights and not a way of protecting them.

.. The totalitarian system, I learned, endures not simply by getting rid of democratic elections and imposing a one-party state. It endures by abolishing the distinction between civil society and the state, and by allowing nothing significant to occur which is not controlled by the Party. By studying the situation in Eastern Europe, I came quickly to see that political freedom depends upon a delicate network of institutions, which my friends were striving to understand and if possible to resuscitate.

[Cronos]

The totalitarian system, I learned, endures not simply by getting rid of democratic elections and imposing a one-party state. It endures by abolishing the distinction between civil society and the state, and by allowing nothing significant to occur which is not controlled by the Party. -- key words..

[lbryce]

The manner in which of capitalism has sometimes been described may apply to democracy as well. Yes, capitalism is a ruthless, cruel economic system. But it’s the best we’ve got.

[piytar]

Democracy is overrated. And failed. A Republic, if you can keep it, is not.

PS We are supposed to be a Rebuplic.

[Tzimisce]

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for lunch.

[Irenic]

That quote sure seems intimate...

[Olog-hai]

Capitalism per se is not ruthless and cruel, and to claim it is implies that other systems are neither cruel nor ruthless (which they are).

State capital is indeed cruel and utterly ruthless, and this is the system that Marx championed. It’s in the Communist Manifesto.

[Olog-hai]

Make that state capitalism. It is mentioned in Plank 5 of the Ten Planks of Communism.

[Berlin_Freeper]

The problem is we are not as educated and civilized as the trappings suggest.

When you have “People Power”, you need to take a good look at the people.

“people”.

[Yosemitest]

Training Manual No. 2000-25 published by the War Department, November 30, 1928.:

DEMOCRACY:
A government of the masses.
Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
Results in mobocracy.
Attitude toward property is communistic--negating property rights.
Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate,
whether is be based upon deliberation
or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse,
without restraint or regard to consequences.
Results in demogogism, license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

REPUBLIC:
Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy.
Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress. Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

The manuals containing these definitions were ordered destroyed without explanation about the same time that President Franklin D. Roosevelt made private ownership of our lawful money (US Minted Gold Coins) illegal.
Shortly after the people turned in their $20 gold coins, the price was increased from $20 per ounce to $35 per ounce.
Almost overnight F.D.R., the most popular president this century (elected 4 times) looted almost half of this nation's wealth, while convincing the people that it was for their own good.
Many of F.D.R.'s policies were suggested by his right hand man, Harry Hopkins, who said,
"Tax and Tax,
Spend and Spend,
Elect and Elect,
because
the people are too damn dumb to know the difference".

[savagesusie]

Capitalism is the only Free system-—Free Market Capitalism.

But NOTHING is “Good” and ‘works”, even Capitalism, if the “civil” society is NOT Virtuous.

That is the key-—”Without Virtue, you can not have a Free Republic”. (Socrates)

The only purpose of education is to promote Virtue (Socrates).

Cultural Marxists in the 30’s (Gramsci/Adorno/Lukacs, etc) stated that the way to collapse Western Civilization is to destroy Virtue. How do you do that? You corrupt the children (get ahold of ‘education”) and you destroy Virtue in children. (Sex Ed is the easiest way to remove Virtue from children. Lukacs used Sex Ed to collapse Hungary in one generation).

The Cultural Marxists knew the way to destroy Viture: destroy the Natural Family and Christianity-—the two pillars essential for Western Civilization by corrupting Art. Toxic Art destroys morality in children who are vulnerable to ideas/group think.

All the Founders knew that we needed a “religious” people to make the Republic work. Montesquieu stated that Republics always need to promote Virtue. (Justice is the Queen of Virtues-—and our children are taught to take “Pride” in Vice now-—even in Kindergarten. Our Justice System promotes Vice/sodomy now.

Even Machiavelli stated that it was essential to promote Virtue in militaries especially and now Vice is promoted and Christianity is being eliminated.

Christianity is the antithesis of Marxism/Communism because it is about Individual Rights-—never collective “Rights”. Marxists have to destroy that concept in children-—condition them into “group thinkers”/dependent thinkers who accept anything they are told—which our Prussian style schools condition them into. Children today “feel” things are evil/good-—they are ignorant about philosophy/theology/history. Emotions are the Marxist tool—they eliminate Reason and Logic/Responsibility in children-—keep them infantilized/slaves.

[aquila48]

We are far from a democracy - and that’s good.

Everything in the constitution including the bill of rights is outside the purview of majority rule.

[Stingray]

“For some time, the leading Western nations have acted upon the assumption that democracy is the solution to political conflict...”

Democracy is mob rule. Constitutional Republicanism, based on the inalienability of “God-given rights” is the solution to political conflict.

The reason there is political conflict in America today is that at least half the country wants to destroy the Constitution, and half no problem letting evil half-wits, like 0bama, do it through all the freebies he offers!

[Lancey Howard]

Dear old Dad always said a benevolent dictatorship would be preferable to letting the homos, atheists, abortion enthusiasts, union pinky rings, condom-throwers, Boy Scout haters, hand-wringing college professors, Georgetown sluts, Hollywood drunks, America-hating malcontents, minority “victim” classes, and the rest of the moochers, deadbeats, parasites, and goofballs who make up the Democrat party’s base elect America’s “leaders”.

I agree.

[nathanbedford]

I congratulate you on the insight contained in your reply and on the breadth of your knowledge of the Frankfurt School.

For example, your observation that "Christianity is the antithesis of Marxism/Communism because it is about Individual Rights-—never collective “Rights”" is worth an entire thread itself.

I ask you to apply your analytical mind to the following: when we see the breakdown of culture, let us say the breakdown of marriage, the towering bastardy rates, the consequent ignorance and lack of education, the inevitable brutality and rising crime rates, we naturally react and want to do something about it. The reflexive reaction is to say, if homosexual marriage is breaking down marriage in general, let us pass a law prohibiting homosexual marriage, or prohibiting no-fault divorce etc.

In other words, the reflexive reaction is to enact a statute to control the cultural disintegration. When we do that leftists, who have themselves been thoroughly indoctrinated by the cultural undermining of the Frankfurt school, say we're intruding into their bedroom etc. We come off as Nazis and they come off as enlightened defenders of the individual. They have effectively turned the tables on Christian conservatives.

You have had the great insight to understand that the authors of this disintegration, Gramsci/Adorno/Lukacs, understood that the way to change the way society governs itself is to change the culture and let the laws adapt to the culture. We conservatives are trying to do it the other way round.

We will never win the war until we win the culture.

Comments?

[Gene Eric]

A Free Republic for that matter.

It’s usually the idiots on the Left that debate democracy.

[AEMILIUS PAULUS]

I’ll put it this way the only true democracy, in all of of reality is found in Hell. Heaven is a kingdom.

[LibLieSlayer]

Democracy is rotten mob rule... it should be shunned like communism... now a Representative Republic that has not been turned into a mob rules government is the way to go... read the Founding Fathers... they explain it all.

[gingerbread]

First, we have to have a proper description of “DEMOCRACY”. The best one I’ve ever heard is by Benjamin Franklin. In explaining what “DEMOCRACY” was “TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB, TRYING TO DECIDE WHAT TO HAVE FOR DINNER”. In other words, MAJORITY RULES. If the MAJORITY decides that any minority was a danger to the majority, they can be done away with. Look what’s happening in all these countries that chose “DEMOCRACY”? Egypt? Syria? Iran? Iraq? etc.etc,etc. All those countries, their leaders were democratically elected. Hey lets just 90 years back. Hitler was “DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED”. The best form of government ever created is the CONSTITUTIONAL REPUBLIC that was designed by our forefathers. As flawed as it is, It’s still the best. Because it’s self correcting. Because this type of GOVERNING puts the individual ahead of the collective. Unfortunately, our politicians prefer the “COLLECTIVE” type of “RULING instead of “GOVERNING”. That’s the nature of all governments. Because it’s a lot harder to “GOVERN” a group of individuals and much easier to “RULE” a collective

[riri]

Two of my three favorite poster meet. It's like Christmas morning. (:

Ha! Do I appear to be some sort of creepy FR stalker?

[Jacob Kell]

Could you tell me more about state capitalism?