Posted on 07/29/2013 5:33:38 AM PDT by SoFloFreeper
Pope Francis reached out to gays on Monday, saying he wouldn't judge priests for their sexual orientation in a remarkably open and wide-ranging news conference as he returned from his first foreign trip...
"If someone is gay and he searches for the Lord and has good will, who am I to judge?" Francis asked.
His predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, signed a document in 2005 that said men with deep-rooted homosexual tendencies should not be priests. Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.
Francis' remarks came Monday during a plane journey back to the Vatican from his first foreign trip in Brazil.
He was funny and candid during a news conference that lasted almost an hour and a half. He didn't dodge a single question, even thanking the journalist who raised allegations reported by an Italian newsmagazine that one of his trusted monsignors was involved in a scandalous gay tryst.
(Excerpt) Read more at mobile.philly.com ...
by PHILIP PULLELLA
Published on the 29 July 2013
AFP
POPE Francis, in some of the most compassionate words from any pontiff on gays, said they should not be judged or marginalised and should be integrated into society, but he reaffirmed Church teaching that homosexual acts are a sin.
In a broad-ranging 80-minute conversation with journalists on the plane bringing him back from a week-long visit to Brazil, Francis also said the Roman Catholic Church’s ban on women priests was definitive, although he would like them to have more leadership roles in administration and pastoral activities.
Francis defended gays from discrimination in what was his first news conference since being elected pontiff in March, but also referred to the Catholic Church’s universal Catechism, which says that while homosexual orientation is not sinful, homosexual acts are.
“If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?” the pope said.
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society,” he said, speaking in Italian.
“The problem is not having this orientation. We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem,” he said.
Francis was answering a question about reports of a “gay lobby” in the Vatican.
“You see a lot written about the gay lobby. I still have not seen anyone in the Vatican with an identity card saying they are gay,” he joked.
Addressing the issue of women priests, the pope said, “The Church has spoken and says ‘no’ … that door is closed.” It was the first time he had spoken in public on the subject.
“We cannot limit the role of women in the Church to altar girls or the president of a charity, there must be more …,” he said in answer to a question during a remarkably frank conversation with Vatican journalists.
“But with regards to the ordination of women, the Church has spoken and says no. Pope John Paul said so with a formula that was definitive. That door is closed,” he said referring to a document by the late pontiff which said the ban was part of the infallible teaching of the Church.
The Church teaches that it cannot ordain women because Jesus willingly chose only men as his apostles. Advocates of a female priesthood say he was acting according to the customs of his times.
Many in the Church, even those who oppose a female priesthood, say women should be given leadership roles in the Church and the Vatican administration.
I’ve heard of Roman Catholic prophecies that there are only going to be so many popes... and Francis brings it up to that count.
This. The current homosexualization of the West is greatest threat to the Church, and by extension western civilization, since the rise of Islam. A day nearly upon us when even in "Christian" countries believers will be given the choice of embracing homosexuality or suffering severe consequences. With the large Protestant churches already on the pink bandwagon or wavering, the Catholic church is the last and greatest bulwark of the faith against this assault. For the Pope to even appear to go soft is deeply troubling. No matter how he meant his remarks, we KNOW that the secular world will use them against the churches. The scripture tells us to be gentle as doves yet wise as serpents. The second clause of that commandment got lost in the wash this time.
The non-Catholic reader gets the impression we have a pro-homosexual socialist for pope.
Goodness ... even the leftists at AFP don't support the notion that +Francis is supporting faggotry.
Francis was much more conciliatory, saying gay clergymen should be forgiven and their sins forgotten.
These statements are juxtaposed as if they contradict each other. But they don't—because they are on different subjects. Both are true.
The first has always been church teaching, and I doubt that the Pope who referred to the homosexual "marriage" movement as inspired by the devil hopes to change this. He also described the "Gay Lobby" within the Vatican as demonic. He knows what he is up against.
The second statement is about sin and the sacrament of Confession. Yes, sins that are validly confessed and absolved are forgiven and forgotten. Not to say a priest wouldn't be reassigned, disciplined, or even laicized based on his behavior. Many have been, including heads of international religious orders.
Not to understand the distinction between forgiveness (which belongs to God, through the priest) and prudent hiring policies is typical of media types—who also don't want to understand. The same applies to some Protestants. It should be borne in mind that at least the Catholic Church has a central authority from whom coherent and consistent teaching is demanded.
I think Freepers just generally don't like when any individual or group supports or excuses things which they know to be wrong.
I agree it is not his place to judge but he can remove them to keep their open perversion from a leadership role in the church.
re: -Speaking to reporters on a flight back from Brazil, he reaffirmed the Roman Catholic Church’s position that homosexual acts were sinful, but homosexual orientation was not.
“If a person is gay and seeks God and has good will, who am I to judge him?”
-His remarks on gay people are being seen as much more conciliatory than his predecessor’s position on the issue.
“The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well, it says they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society.”
“The problem is not having this orientation,” he said. “We must be brothers. The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.”
Ok, I’ll say up-front that I am not Catholic, but so far I’ve appreciated Pope Francis’s strong stand on Christian doctrine and his living a consistent, Christ-like witness before the world.
I also know that the media can frame quotes in a way that does not say what the original speaker ever meant to say.
With all that in mind, and giving Pope Francis the benefit of the doubt, but, assuming these quotes are accurate, I’m very confused as to what he means by, “. . .they should not be marginalised because of this but that they must be integrated into society”?
And, “. . .The problem is not having this orientation, we must be brothers”?
When he says “who am I to judge” in regard to gays, I understand that he may be talking about “judging” in the sense of condemning someone to hell and how that is NOT our concern - only God knows the hearts of people well enough to make that kind of judgement. But, if Pope Francis is simply saying that we cannot “judge” others acts as being wrong or right - THAT is a misunderstanding of Jesus’ words that we are not to judge.
Anyway, I pray that Pope Francis is not equivocating on the clear teachings of the Bible in regard to homosexuality.
Such talk bugs me... why is this pope using the misleading name created by these grim buggerers who rejoice in iniquity? Or are they altering this pope's words (shame on the media then)?
Context. What a concept!
And so mow the Catholic church has come out, and confessed that they are not based on the word of God, but that they are in actuality, a social club.
The emergent and mega churches and the Catholic church are really churches of idol worship and humanism.
Reading in the book of John, where Jesus is talking to some Jews and telling they they are like their Father, the King of Lies, and I am thinking that is a timely message for me.
If it isn’t based on God’s truth and God’s word- it is a lie. Praying for all Catholic believers, that they will wake up.
That is how propaganda works. But, you knew that. Right?
It’s bothersome to me to see it. The Roman Catholic segment of Christendom, to carry on as well as it does, is highly dependent upon the Vatican getting things right. Like the bible says if the salt loses its saltiness where else will it get its saltiness. (The answer... it can’t... except directly from the Lord of course.) Just calling these folks “gay” without, at least, quotes (and if it’s orally then putting in the quotes is not possible unless the speaker says something like ‘quote gay unquote’) is a concession.
See article at post #41.
I wonder if anyone will read your post, and then admit that the “philly dot com” article led them to believe falsehood.
Christ died for us while we were yet in our sins. He made the first move, so that sinners could turn to Him, repent and accept Him as Savior. So yes, homosexuals can repent and accept Christ. Once they do, the Holy Spirit will dwell in them and teach them more fully right from wrong.
And it is true, the Pope will not judge homosexuals. God will.
I agree with those who have said let’s wait to see what the Pope really said. There are a lot of ways an evil press can twist the above concepts.
See post #41 above.
Yes that is how it would work, and the press does seem to be putting in some secular spin here. But are they misquoting Francis as actually saying “gay.” Language is leverage.
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