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Report: Railway head says train in Canada tampered with
CNN ^ | 9 Jul 2013

Posted on 07/09/2013 7:43:28 AM PDT by mandaladon

CNN) -- The chairman of the company whose driverless train barreled into the small Quebec town of Lac-Megantic and unleashed a deadly inferno told a Montreal newspaper he believes it had been tampered with. "We have evidence of this," Ed Burkhardt said in an interview published by the Montreal Gazette. "But this is an item that needs further investigation. We need to talk to some people we believe to have knowledge of this." The company did not immediately return phone calls from CNN about the report. Burkhardt is the chief executive officer and president of Rail World, the parent company of the Montreal, Maine & Atlantic Railway, the operator of the derailed train. Seventy-two tanker cars carrying crude oil jumped the track early Saturday, setting off a huge fireball. At least 13 people are dead and 37 are missing. Officials in the town 130 miles east of Montreal say some were likely vaporized by the sheer intensity of the blaze, which burned for 36 hours.

(Excerpt) Read more at us.cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Canada; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: canada; energy; lacmegantic; oil; quebec; train; trainwreck
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The Montreal newspaper says Burkhardt doesn't "believe that the event was malicious or an act of terrorism." Burkhardt is quoted as saying that his company has begun an internal inquiry that has been "limited by rescue efforts and parallel investigations under way since Saturday."................Something strange happened here.
1 posted on 07/09/2013 7:43:28 AM PDT by mandaladon
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To: mandaladon

I’ve read that the firefighters turned OFF the lead engine, which was providing power to the air brakes.

Whether that’s the “tampering” he’s referring to , I don’t know.


2 posted on 07/09/2013 7:45:30 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: mandaladon
The brakes had been locked on all four locomotives.

All four wouldn't come unlocked by themselves.

3 posted on 07/09/2013 7:46:47 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (This is a sarcasm tag for the retards unable to recognize sarcasm.)
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To: mandaladon

It is clearly in the interest of the railroad to not bear responsibility for this event. So rather than it being a case of something simple - like the engineer neglecting to properly secure his train - they need to find some other outside factor.


4 posted on 07/09/2013 7:48:00 AM PDT by stormer
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To: mandaladon

It’s already being reported that firemen responding to a fire in one of the locomotives earlier in the night shut down the engine on that locomotive. It was running to maintain brake pressure on the air brakes on the train and the pressure bled off over time. The train rolled into town after that. There’s another thread posted earlier with details.


5 posted on 07/09/2013 7:48:47 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: stormer

Exactly. It may well be that the train was tampered with, but I’m sure as h*ll not going to believe it just because the chairman of the railroad says it is so.


6 posted on 07/09/2013 7:49:38 AM PDT by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: mandaladon
A few Years ago Brian Ross produced a segment of an ABC News show in which he demonstrated how easy it was to sabotage a Train carrying dangerous substances. He showed examples of how a simple and small explosive could be placed strategically so as to kill upwards of 100,000 people.

It would appear his intention was to inform the people and the government so that precautions could be taken to prevent such an incident from occurring.

What the BRAIN DEAD STUPID JACK@SS didn't realize is that it was IMPOSSIBLE to solve this problem, and all he accomplished was to notify terrorists of a ripe easy target.

I said at the time of the broadcast "That fool needs to be fired, because he doesn't understand that he has just handed terrorists an effective weapon."

Again, any countermeasures would be so costly or ineffective as to be impossible, so in effect all Brian Ross had done is to endanger the public by spreading knowledge of a security weakness.

7 posted on 07/09/2013 7:49:52 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: mandaladon

Would not surprise me.

I remember right after the Boston Marathon bombings terror incident, they was I think a threat against an Amtrack train.


8 posted on 07/09/2013 7:55:02 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: mandaladon

Opponents of building the Keystone XL Pipeline often cite safety and environmental hazards of pipelines, but I think hauling oil by rail or truck would seem to be far more hazardous.


9 posted on 07/09/2013 7:55:54 AM PDT by The Great RJ (construction)
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To: The Great RJ

Plus the pipeline systems around now are much better built for safety.


10 posted on 07/09/2013 7:59:31 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: DiogenesLamp

I recall this ABC News story. I remember that the thing that concerned me was how easy it would be to access all the various chemical plants around the country. If this had been a train carrying tankers of chorine gas, it could have been a lot worse.


11 posted on 07/09/2013 7:59:58 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: The Great RJ

Or by ship(Exxon Valdez).


12 posted on 07/09/2013 8:01:35 AM PDT by woodbutcher1963
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To: saganite

Please do look for the thread if you can. Thank-you.


13 posted on 07/09/2013 8:03:04 AM PDT by Biggirl ("Jesus talked to us as individuals"-Jim Vicevich/Thanks JimV!)
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To: mandaladon
From another thread...

An extremist group called 350 Maine set up a blockade 2 weeks ago - Maine is next door to Quebec.

Hmmm...

14 posted on 07/09/2013 8:05:32 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Biggirl

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3040657/posts


15 posted on 07/09/2013 8:06:23 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Impossible,,, firefighters are Heroes and couldnt do such a stupid thing... /sarc
16 posted on 07/09/2013 8:09:45 AM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Izzy Dunne
I’ve read that the firefighters turned OFF the lead engine, which was providing power to the air brakes.

This makes no sense to me.

As I understand it, the air brakes require air pressure TO DISENGAGE THE BRAKE PADS, so that any leak or loss of pressure would always lock up the brakes by design, for safety reasons.

So I think sabotage is very likely, eh ?

17 posted on 07/09/2013 8:23:48 AM PDT by SecondAmendment (Restoring our Republic at 9.8357x10^8 FPS)
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To: saganite

Funny thing about air brakes is that without air pressure the brakes are fully applied.


18 posted on 07/09/2013 8:24:30 AM PDT by Justa
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To: saganite
I thought that air was needed to release the brakes, without air pressure the brakes would go on. Sort of a fail safe in case an air line broke or if a rail car somehow became uncoupled.
19 posted on 07/09/2013 8:25:31 AM PDT by MRadtke (Light a candle or curse the darkness?)
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To: Izzy Dunne

that is not how it works. Air Brakes use air to open the brakes, without air they are closed. Standard design for a 150 years.


20 posted on 07/09/2013 8:34:54 AM PDT by ClayinVA ("Those who don't remember history are doomed to repeat it")
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To: Justa

Go to the other thread (link posted above) and read the replies. It’s all explained pretty well there.


21 posted on 07/09/2013 8:35:35 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: mandaladon

“Tampered with?” Sounds more like sabotage to me.


22 posted on 07/09/2013 8:36:09 AM PDT by wastedyears (I'm a gamer not because I choose to have no life, but because I choose to have many.)
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To: SecondAmendment
Hmmm. I hadn't thought about it, but you're right. Cutting the power should have ENGAGED the brakes.

Here's the story I read.

so firefighters shut off the engine to stop the flames from spreading. That slowly disengaged the air brakes,

That DOES seem wrong, doesn't it?

23 posted on 07/09/2013 8:38:28 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: DiogenesLamp

40 years ago that nearly happened in Denver.
They had a run-away with a tanker full of chemicals which would have killed at least 10k.

Friend at Shell Chemical told me about it.


24 posted on 07/09/2013 8:41:03 AM PDT by Zathras
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To: SecondAmendment; Izzy Dunne; Mycroft Holmes
The brakes are actuated on a reduction in pressure, but the motive force for the application of the brakes comes from an air reservoir aboard each individual rail-car, not from a spring.

Info by FReeper Mycroft Holmes:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3040657/posts?page=27#27

25 posted on 07/09/2013 8:47:44 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: mandaladon
Under the Westinghouse system, therefore, brakes are applied by reducing train line pressure and released by increasing train line pressure. The Westinghouse system is thus fail safe—any failure in the train line, including a separation ("break-in-two") of the train, will cause a loss of train line pressure, causing the brakes to be applied and bringing the train to a stop, thus preventing a runaway train.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_air_brake

26 posted on 07/09/2013 8:49:25 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: P.O.E.

But that system is not intended to hold the train indefinitely. It is designed to give the train operators time to set each hand brake on each train car.


27 posted on 07/09/2013 8:52:20 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: woodbutcher1963
Exactly. Brian Ross was criminally negligent to have reported what he did. It was reckless and irresponsible for him to do what he did, but that is the hallmark of his career. Other colossally stupid things he has done is to Smuggle Uranium into the USA just to show how easy it was,


and he is also THE PERSON responsible for rigging that Chevrolet truck to explode when it was hit by another vehicle when he worked for NBC.

That little stunt cost him his job at NBC, but ABC stupidly hired the Jack@ss.

The world would be a better place if people like Brian Ross weren't allowed to create "news."

28 posted on 07/09/2013 8:54:39 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: saganite
Train brakes APPLY if there is no pressure. Unless someone has manually cranked them to the off position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_air_brake

So “bleeding off” would of applied the brakes unless they were manually overridden.

29 posted on 07/09/2013 8:54:57 AM PDT by mad_as_he$$
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To: mad_as_he$$

Read the other thread (link posted above) it explains how it happened.


30 posted on 07/09/2013 8:56:21 AM PDT by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: thackney
the motive force for the application of the brakes comes from an air reservoir aboard each individual rail-car, not from a spring.

Are the cars interconnected, brake-wise?

I would think so.

Can a leak in one place drain the reservoirs of ALL cars?

I don't know.

Seems like the engine should CHARGE all reservoirs, but not be able to DISCHARGE them.

But I'm no train guy (in case that's not obvious).

31 posted on 07/09/2013 8:58:43 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Zathras

It’s a real danger, but workable solutions do not lend themselves to this problem.

Pointing out how they can be exploited by terrorists is reckless endangerment in my opinion.


32 posted on 07/09/2013 9:01:42 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: DiogenesLamp
What the BRAIN DEAD STUPID JACK@SS didn't realize ...

I have ceased to give the MSM any benefit of the doubt. Until solidly proven
otherwise I will assume that Brian Ross and ABC intended to assist terrorists.

33 posted on 07/09/2013 9:09:35 AM PDT by TigersEye ("No man left behind" is more than an Army Ranger credo it's the character of America.)
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To: Izzy Dunne
Are the cars interconnected, brake-wise?

The main air supply, that pressures up the reserve tank, as well as holds the brakes open, is connected. Loss of this pressure supply line, closes the brakes, depending on each individual car to hold its own brakes for a time sufficient to apply the hand brakes.

Can a leak in one place drain the reservoirs of ALL cars?

They don't need to all be drained, just enough of them to partially relieve enough pressure. Some were still holding; there was reports of screaming wheels and glowing red brakes.

34 posted on 07/09/2013 9:11:17 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: mandaladon

This could have been sabotage by anti-domestic energy liberals who sabotage trucks and equipment in the United States and Canada regularly.

It is extremely common.


35 posted on 07/09/2013 9:19:58 AM PDT by Erik Latranyi (When religions have to beg the gov't for a waiver, we are already under socialism.)
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To: Erik Latranyi

The initial fire between Nantes and Lac-Mégantic that was put out before the train rolled away and caused a far worse fire might have been sabotage. But the reasons this became such a huge disaster really looks like incompetence.

Time line:

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/M%C3%A9gantic+fire+timeline/8626739/story.html


36 posted on 07/09/2013 9:37:15 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: thackney

Or by diesign


37 posted on 07/09/2013 9:55:58 AM PDT by Rj Snows
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To: thackney

I defer to y’all who know way more than I do about the subject.


38 posted on 07/09/2013 9:57:01 AM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: thackney
The main air supply, that pressures up the reserve tank, as well as holds the brakes open, is connected. Loss of this pressure supply line, closes the brakes, depending on each individual car to hold its own brakes for a time sufficient to apply the hand brakes.

That implies that the air brakes alone should NOT be used to "park" the train.

If you're going to walk away, you should put on hand brakes on a majority of cars, I would think.

IN which case, there is no need to keep the engine running, is there? Freezing is not a threat in July.

39 posted on 07/09/2013 9:58:23 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: mandaladon

No worries, when they find the guy he will spend a few years in the looney bin and then be let out on good behavior, you know like the bus head chopper off-er....


40 posted on 07/09/2013 10:03:19 AM PDT by GraceG
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To: All

Without a running locomotive, hand brakes are required.

63.10.3 Securing a Train or Portion Of Train Without
Locomotive Attached

http://www.akrr.com/pdf/SAF_AirBrake.pdf

Page 63-14


41 posted on 07/09/2013 10:08:59 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Izzy Dunne

See Alaskan railroad operating manual in link 41


42 posted on 07/09/2013 10:10:06 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: P.O.E.

That is similar to the way that over-the-road, 18-wheelers work. Lose air pressure and the brakes go on. You need air pressure to release the brakes. Springs lock the brakes if there is not enough continuous pressure to keep them unlocked.


43 posted on 07/09/2013 10:21:03 AM PDT by jim_trent
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To: TigersEye

That probably isn’t that far from the truth.


44 posted on 07/09/2013 10:31:01 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Partus Sequitur Patrem)
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To: mandaladon
Westinghouse's 1869 version, the straight or direct air brake, used air hoses to connect the cars. When the engineer turned on the brakes, air pressure turned the brakes on in each car of the train. Of course, if the hoses leaked or disconnected, the train lost braking power.

With air brake 2.0, Westinghouse turned things around. Air pressure kept the brakes off. The engineer reduced pressure to put the brakes on. This built-in safeguard meant a loss of pressure would stop the train automatically. That applied to leakage and to the situation where cars came unhitched: Loose cars would brake to a stop. The system went into use in 1872 on the Pennsylvania Railroad.

http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/03/dayintech_0305

45 posted on 07/09/2013 10:36:43 AM PDT by McGruff (I need a new party.)
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To: jim_trent

Trains do not use springs to close. They use an on-board air tank on each car. It will eventually bleed down.


46 posted on 07/09/2013 10:37:01 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: DiogenesLamp
I'm not the only one who thinks the MSM are traitors. Pat Caddell thinks so too.

Pat Caddell slams the media: They have become an “enemy of the people” Sept. 29, 2012(video 26:00)

Emotional Pat Caddell on the MSM ignoring Benghazi: “These people have no honor!” Oct. 27, 2012 (video at link 4:06)

The MSM are enemies of the people!

47 posted on 07/09/2013 10:44:05 AM PDT by TigersEye ("No man left behind" is more than an Army Ranger credo it's the character of America.)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative
I’m sure as h*ll not going to believe it just because the chairman of the railroad says it is so.

Better call Saul!

48 posted on 07/09/2013 11:17:33 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: DiogenesLamp
"A few Years ago Brian Ross produced a segment of an ABC News show in which he demonstrated how easy it was to sabotage a Train carrying dangerous substances."

You can still today go to McMaster-Carr supply and buy a train de-railer that bolts on to the track in about 30 seconds that will lift and throw the lead car off the rail.

I can't believe that they would sell that these days, not that you couldn't build one with a bridgeport and a welder, but still...

49 posted on 07/09/2013 12:18:52 PM PDT by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: mandaladon

Is Burkhardt French? There’s room for a resident idiot in this story. The various stories all make it sound like the engines lost all their cars which rolled into town by them selves. But I saw video late yesterday of the engines and numerous cars still connected to them. Someone had to manually disconnect a car coupling in the middle of the car line. No other way for that to happen except by direct action. They also had to manually disconnect the air line between the same two cars. Note that the air lines are, by themselves, strong enough to keep cars from rolling away on a slight slope. The engines were parked for the night meaning the air line was most likely dumped such that each car was braking itself. Getting those cars rolling would require climbing up each car and manually cranking off the brake wheel.

When I was in high school one of my occasional jobs was loading individual box cars. Moving them by hand required cranking off the manual brake wheel, jacking the car, then re-setting the brakes to make sure the car was still there next day.

There is no freeking way this was not sabotage. Just find out who would have known the train frequently stops on a slight slope. Note also that if the brakes on the cars weren’t holding it would have been very difficult to uncouple two cars. Pull pressure on the coupling locks it tightly in place-—it’s not like a suicide latch or pelican hook which disconnect with slight pressure. From the pics of the area it looks to me like the perpetrator picked a spot far enough down the car line to be out of sight of the engine area.


50 posted on 07/09/2013 12:47:09 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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