South Korean passenger jet crashes at SFO

SFGate.com ^ | 7/6/13 | Will Kane and John Wildermuth

[reg45]

Almost did. Part of the plane seems to be in the water. Plane struck breakwater just short of the runway.

[SuziQ]

I don't think the witness used the right word; this suggests that the plane flipped upside down. But the plane was right-side up, and both wings were attached. I think maybe he meant "pin wheeling," i.e., spinning, rather than cartwheeling or flipping...That jives with a witness on the ground, a mechanic for United, who saw the crash. He said the plane spun, then came to rest and caught fire.

I'm amazed that ONLY two people died with a fire of that magnitude, but someone up the thread mentioned that the fire was small to start and the flight attendants got everyone off quickly. That's a good reminder to folks of what the most important responsibility of a flight attendant is, and it's NOT to make sure we get a bag of peanuts.

[ExNewsExSpook]

I think the investigation will bear out your theory...based on what we currently know, I don’t think there can be any other explanation.

One more point: Korean carriers have had difficulty in the past with cockpit crews cross-checking each other and pointing out obvious mistakes. It’s a reflection of Korean culture; the Captain is an absolute God in the cockpit, and the first officer or “third pilot” (on long-distance hauls) are reluctant to tell the guy in the left seat he is screwing up and even taking control of the aircraft.

That very scenario led to the crash of a Korean Air Boeing 747 in Guam a few years back. The pilot was coming in too low and slow; the co-pilot clearly recognized the mistake, but said nothing. As a result, the plane landed on an upward slope on Guam, short of the runway. After that crash, Korean Air hired a former Delta executive to change the crew culture and they did. As I recall, KAL has had a very good safety record since that accident.

It will be interesting to see if any of those cultural factors contributed to the crash at SFO.

[ExNewsExSpook]

There would almost certainly be a “third” pilot on this flight, to augment the two-man cockpit crew.

[aviator]

PAPI, ILS DME AND G/S not working. Visual approach to 28L in beautiful weather. Either both engines quit just before the runway and everyone is VERY lucky or the airplane was grossly mis-flown.

[ken5050]

Well, if when they play the CVR, and we hear “Gangnam Style” playing..

[ken5050]

Great info...but it's not always due to "culture." The greatest loss of life in aviation, when the two 747s collided in the Canary Islands..it was the fault of the KLM captain..who was the airline's command check pilot...he ignored the requests/demands of the co-pilot NOT to roll out for take off..

Looks to be like the cabin crew did a superb job of getting everyone off if at all possible. They had NO clue whatsoever..their training just kicked it..and it 's obvious very good training..

[Eric in the Ozarks]

I think I was on that flight into Mexico City...

[al baby]

Or spinning as in doing a donut burn out

[ken5050]

Looking at the wreckage...one would surmise that the pilots survived..an d can explain what happened, unless they expired if they were the last to leave the plane..as they’e supposed to do..make sure everyone got off..

[reg45]

The sturdiness of the Boeing 777 combined with the skill of the cabin attendants saved dozens of lives.

[ken5050]

One day an A-380..with maybe 700 souls on board...something bad will happen..it’s inevitable...that’s will not be pretty..

[ncfool]

Since July 1, This plane had been everywhere.
http://planefinder.net/data/airplanes/HL7742

Previous flights by HL7742

FLIGHT ROUTE DATE
OZ214 Incheon Intl (ICN) - San Francisco Intl (SFO) 2013-07-06
OZ111 Kansai (KIX) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-06
OZ112 Incheon Intl (ICN) - Kansai (KIX) 2013-07-06
OZ203 Los Angeles Intl (LAX) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-05
OZ204 Incheon Intl (ICN) - Los Angeles Intl (LAX) 2013-07-04
OZ121 Chubu Centrair Intl (NGO) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-04
OZ502 Charles De Gaulle (CDG) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-04
OZ501 Incheon Intl (ICN) - Charles De Gaulle (CDG) 2013-07-04
OZ502 Charles De Gaulle (CDG) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-03
OZ501 Incheon Intl (ICN) - Charles De Gaulle (CDG) 2013-07-03
OZ213 San Francisco Intl (SFO) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-01
OZ214 Incheon Intl (ICN) - San Francisco Intl (SFO) 2013-07-01
OZ111 Kansai (KIX) - Incheon Intl (ICN) 2013-07-01
OZ112 Incheon Intl (ICN) - Kansai (KIX)

[virgil]

Hardest landing Ive experienced was at Dulles, B777, 2008, Chicago to Dulles to Rome. Hit hard like you say. Rolled down the runway swerving violently left, then right, then back to center. Some passengers said they heard a “pop” mid flight. Flight attendant said she thought a baggage cart down below came loose and was rolling around in the cargo bay. Never heard anymore.

[Blueflag]

agreed.

also a cultural component as well- no one dared question the senior pilot ... who happen to be blowing the approach.

controlled descent into terrain due to instrumentation fixation.

aka. pilot error.

[Georgia Girl 2]

Bwahahaha!! I no see runway. Oooh noooo!

[NormsRevenge]

This plane originally started off in Shanghai, then went thru Seoul on way to SFO.

—

2 killed, 40 badly hurt in SFO plane crash
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/2-killed-40-badly-hurt-in-SFO-plane-crash-4650259.php

—

The plane, Asiana Airlines Flight 214, crashed at 11:27 a.m. and came to rest on the side of runway 28L, one of four runways at SFO, said Lynn Lunsford, a spokeswoman with the Federal Aviation Administration. The plane appeared to make impact short of the runway - its tail was obliterated, leaving a trail of debris.

There were 291 passengers and 16 crew members aboard. Two people were killed, 82 were taken to area hospitals and 60 were unaccounted for, San Francisco Fire Chief Joanne Hayes-White said at an afternoon news conference at the airport.

—

[Travis McGee]

[USNBandit]

Concur. As an airline they have a tradition of doing some absolutely crazy s#@t. I saw pictures of a 747 where they had problems with an engine while flying a multi-day trip around Europe. They strapped the fan blades to the stators to keep the engine from windmilling (let's add some drag!). Then they proceeded to fly a series of passenger trips on the way back to Korea where they then got the engine worked on.

The KAL Guam accident was because somebody couldn't read the approach plate. The normal ILS system that provides glide slope information was out of service so they were cleared for a corresponding non-precision approach that flew in towards the navigational station, crosses it, and then outbound on a corresponding radial to the runway. That type of approach isn't abnormal, but it isn't as common as approaches where the navaids are at the airfield.

For the non-pilots out there, on a non-precision approach you fly to certain points and are cleared to plateau altitudes along the way. The KAL attempted to descend to the minimum decent altitude when they arrived at the navaid, which was 5 miles short of the runway up on a Nimitz Hill. If you saw a picture of the wreckage you could see the navaid antenna right next to the plane.