1 in 12 on Bloomberg’s gun victims list are crime suspects

Washington Examiner ^ | JUNE 21, 2013 | PAUL BEDARD

[neverdem]

A preliminary analysis of the list of shooting “victims” New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s group Mayors Against Illegal Guns is reading at rallies for new gun control laws finds that one in 12 are crime suspects killed by police or armed citizens acting in self-defense.

 

The review of 617 killings found that 50 were suspects in crimes ranging from assault to murder, not the type of violence Bloomberg’s group suggests in its “No More Names” campaign to draw attention to the estimated 6,000 gun death “tragedies” since the mid-December Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings in Newton, Conn.

 

The group is using an online list published by Slate.com which simply lists the killings. In Concord, N.H. this week, Bloomberg’s group read the name of Boston Marathon terrorist Tamerlan Tsarnaev off the list during a rally. The group later apologized, saying that his name shouldn’t have been read because he was “not a victim.”

 

The National Rifle Association told Secrets that reading Tsarnaev’s name and including those of other suspected vicious criminals distorts and undermines the No More Names campaign as it travels through 25 states in 100 days to attack legislators opposed to expanded gun control.

 

“This calls into question every statistic that Bloomberg and MAIG has used and will use to promote their cause,” said NRA spokesman Andrew Arulanandam. “Bloomberg has proven that he will stop at nothing, including repeating flawed statistics, in pursuit of his gun control agenda.  And he'll do this with no regard for the truth.”

 

Mayors Against Illegal Guns said they plan to scrub the list. They also said the focus shouldn’t be on the circumstances of the shootings, but the numbers, according to Buzzfeed.

 

The NRA analysis has reviewed the first 18 days of killings on Slate’s post Newtown list, December 14-31. The NRA is reviewing the Slate list in chronological order and the analysis is ongoing. To determine the events, the NRA is using news clippings.

 

Examples found include an Ohio man shot by police while he was holding a gun in another man’s face, and a 79-year-old Indiana man who shot a 19-year-old who was attacking his granddaughter.

 

A separate analysis looked at 13 gun deaths in Montana listed on the Slate list used by Bloomberg’s group. It found that more than half were the result of police shootings or suicide.

[MileHi]

FYI someone with an early sign up doesnt mean their point is more valid than a recent one.

No, it doesn't. When I see unfamiliar names, I hover my cursor over their name to see the signup date out of habit. See, some of the newer people are here to disrupt.

Have a good one.

[lepton]

You make a good point in one sense...as a portion of a number...which is a valid consideration.

That said, there are other aspects on which to criticize the situation:

That they are so uncritical and unthinking that they include a sizable number who clearly don’t belong, and are willing to use even people who needed to be made dead to support disarming the rest of us. This is pretty egregious, and an obvious example even in the more ‘normal’ situations...without even getting to the outrage with Timerlan.

That they would wish us helpless against even these villains in even these situations where the firearms were needed and ostensibly used properly...even in those situations.

[Brooklyn Attitude]

“That said, there are other aspects on which to criticize the situation: That they are so uncritical and unthinking that they include a sizable number who clearly don’t belong, and are willing to use even people who needed to be made dead to support disarming the rest of us. This is pretty egregious, and an obvious example even in the more ‘normal’ situations...without even getting to the outrage with Timerlan.”

For decades the anti-gun nuts have been making huge statistical distortions so frankly I am surprised that people get bent out of shape at a MERE 8 percent.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks neverdem.

...one in 12 are crime suspects killed by police or armed citizens acting in self-defense.

[metalurgist]

The police in Allegheny county, Pennsylvania have stated in the Tribune review newspaper that 80% of gun homicides commited in the county are drug related.

[Zhang Fei]

For instance Detroit has a very high murder rate but it also has the highest justifiable homicide rate (about 5 per week) which is statistically counted as murder.

Crime stats only include criminal homicides, which exclude justifiable homicides (i.e. self-defense and typical cop-related shootings).

[cripplecreek]

Crime stats only include criminal homicides, which exclude justifiable homicides (i.e. self-defense and typical cop-related shootings).

So where are you getting your crime stats at, I'd love to see them.

[Zhang Fei]

UCR definitions are here:

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/handbook/ucrhandbook04.pdf

You can get crime data submitted to the FBI at city-data. Just type the city name and add “city data” to your google search. The nice thing about city-data is you get 10 years’ worth. San Diego PD has data going back to the 50’s. Per capita violent crime tripled in the 60’s and went far higher in the 70’s and 80’s, but have now settled back to the high 60’s rate. This is why news bureaus always talk about crime rates having gone back to 60’s rates, as if the nation has become a land of Mayberry’s. In reality, crime rates are historically high relative to the 50’s and before, and obviously much higher than in Western Europe.

San Diego stats:

http://www.sandiego.gov/police/pdf/2013/UCRRates1950to2012.pdf

[RipSawyer]

“So is this what you’d think if your boss decided to give you an 8% reduction in salary?”
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
That caught my eye because 32 years ago I worked for a company that was in financial trouble. They actually DID cut everyone’s pay by EIGHT percent. In my case this came immediately after I had just gotten a seven percent merit increase. As I recall I had one paycheck with my raise on it and then got cut back to slightly LESS than my old rate. We did not appreciate it! They made an error though, they promised in writing that this was temporary and everyone would be repaid in the future for wages lost during the cut. The feds ruled that this made it a forced loan from the employees to the company and so constituted extortion and they had to immediately restore everyone to their former pay level. By that time I was working for another company so I never got my money back.