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Spitfire vs Bf 109 and F-14 vs Su-27: the difference is always the pilot
The Aviationist ^ | May 31, 2013 | Dario Leone

Posted on 06/02/2013 1:37:47 AM PDT by sukhoi-30mki

click here to read article


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To: mj1234

And.. I worked on F4-b,n,(Vtas upgrade, various ALQ100 upgrades) F4S, pulse doppler integrated circuit look down
shootdown with the AIM 7F sparrow.-

Starting with the the F4N- the VTAS helmet had AIM9 off boresight capability of 25% in 1975!


21 posted on 06/02/2013 5:37:29 AM PDT by mj1234
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To: ansel12

Although not mentioned in the article, the Soviets had a crack unit of female pilots on WWII, iirc.


22 posted on 06/02/2013 5:44:36 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: sukhoi-30mki

The Italians had a bomber, the Piaggio P-108, which was roughly the equivalent of the B-17, but only a few were built. Perhaps the Germans should have ordered a few hundred of them.


23 posted on 06/02/2013 5:47:17 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: PLMerite

What the Me109 lacked was a DROP TANK.
Aan extra 25-50 gallons of gas over England wold have made a difference. Maybe a BIG one.
The Krauts had a technology advantage—but lacked vision.


24 posted on 06/02/2013 5:52:39 AM PDT by Flintlock ("The British are coming--to TAKE OUR GUNS"--Paul Revere)
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To: Kevmo

By the time the P 51 was flying in the Pacific there were NO experienced Jap pilots left.


25 posted on 06/02/2013 5:52:42 AM PDT by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: PLMerite

What the Me109 lacked was a DROP TANK.
Aan extra 25-50 gallons of gas over England wold have made a difference. Maybe a BIG one.
The Krauts had a technology advantage—but lacked vision.


26 posted on 06/02/2013 5:53:17 AM PDT by Flintlock ("The British are coming--to TAKE OUR GUNS"--Paul Revere)
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To: Bill Russell

The Hawker Hurricane was used against the bomber formations, the Spitfire went toe to toe with the ME 109’s, not exactly apples to apples comparison.


27 posted on 06/02/2013 5:55:57 AM PDT by Kozak (The Republic is dead. I do not owe what we have any loyalty, wealth or sympathy.)
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To: Yo-Yo

Great, if obscure movie, and the “splash the Zeros” scene in paritcular was very well done.

Whether by intent or not, it accurately shows how a pilot of a “superior” fighter (Tomcat) can get overconfident in his machine and end up in a situation where a pilot of an “inferior” one (Zero) gets into a position to take a killing shot. The key is always to fight air combat on YOUR terms ( the already mentioned Zoom and Boom tactics used by better performing but less maneuverable US fighters against the Zero), and not get suckered by the other guy into fighting on his.

One of the greatest (or at least most complex) dogfights in history was between an F-4 Phantom and MiG-17 during Vietnam. The USAF pilot was either Olds or Richie (I think) and that phenominal Vietnames pilot. Both both exploited their aircrafts’ potential to the maximum and nether was willing to give an inch to the other’s forte (with the exception of the American having to fight under restrictive visual rules of engagement).


28 posted on 06/02/2013 5:56:20 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: SampleMan
The Jap Navy did a lot of stupid things, one was not pulling front line pilots to train new pilots in 1941 and 42. They had two years to recover from midway and they blew it. The replacement for the A-6M zero was superior to any thing the US Navy had, including the corsair. It was code named Reppu. The Reppu program was put on the back burner when it should have been priority no 1.

Link A-7M


29 posted on 06/02/2013 6:00:12 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Fiji Hill
Piaggio P-108


30 posted on 06/02/2013 6:04:40 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Everything I read about the Battle of Britain showed me that the BF109 was superior to the Spitfires, but the Luftwaffe pilots were too focused on their fuel levels to fight effectively just so they had a chance to make it all the way back to base on the continent.


31 posted on 06/02/2013 6:05:41 AM PDT by EricT. (Another Muslim terrorist. Who saw that coming?)
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To: Flintlock
What the Me109 lacked was a DROP TANK. An extra 25-50 gallons of gas over England wold have made a difference. Maybe a BIG one. The Krauts had a technology advantage—but lacked vision.

I find the parallels between the German Airpower Contract doll-outs and Obama's Green Car initiatives stunning...

They both dolled out money to tons of companies, many designs ended up as prototypes, or never made it off the drawing board, and took their eye off the ball on what could have been winning strategies.

That was Goering's job wasn't it, and wasn't he a heroin addict to boot?

32 posted on 06/02/2013 6:06:44 AM PDT by taildragger (( Tighten the 5 point harness and brace for Impact Freepers, ya know it's coming..... ))
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To: central_va

Joe Foss was furious when he was pulled from combat and sent back to the States as an instructor. He angrily asked what he needed to do to get another combat billet.

His CO told him “Send me another hundred Joe Fosses”.


33 posted on 06/02/2013 6:06:58 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: sukhoi-30mki

I remember speaking to an old pilot who described an air engagement to me.

He was very animated and described the engagement using grand sweeping movements with his hands as aircraft to describe the engagement, with matching narration:

“I came out of the cloud bank and the Fokker was right there, as soon as he saw me, the Fokker dived right back into the clouds.....and I lost him. Then out of nowhere, the Fokker came at me, guns blazing from the direction of the sun.”

I asked him how did he finally defeat the Fokker. He replied: “Fokker? No, that Fokker was a Messerschmitt”


34 posted on 06/02/2013 6:08:32 AM PDT by RFEngineer
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To: tanknetter

What was the movie?

I want to go get it........ today!

It will be raining all day


35 posted on 06/02/2013 6:08:35 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 .....Obama Denies Role in Government)
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To: ansel12

Ask the Russians. They had 3 fighter regiments with all women pilots. The 556th fighter regiment flew 4400 sorties against the Germans. Two of their pilots are the only women aces. Also had bomber regiments with women pilots. The 46th Taman Guards Bomber Regt. flew 24,000 missions.


36 posted on 06/02/2013 6:09:35 AM PDT by X Fretensis
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To: Kevmo

By the time P51s were meeting Zeros, most of the experienced Japanese pilots were dead, and the Zero was obsolescent. The surviving experienced pilots were likely suffering from serious combat fatigue.


37 posted on 06/02/2013 6:15:21 AM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it gettingthe so hot?)
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To: bert

The Final Countdown, a guilty pleasure. There is a cool subtle scene where a fat senator form 1941, before the alpha strike on the jap task force, asks the CO of the carrier if 24 planes(A7 and f14s) is enough planes to do the job, it didn’t sound like a lot of planes. the CO responded in a laconic style “It’s enough”.


38 posted on 06/02/2013 6:16:58 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: Vanders9

“The most important attribute of a fighter is speed.”

See also - F4 Phantom vs. the lighter Migs flown during Vietnam.

The Migs were lighter and more maneuverable, due to the fact that the F4 was designed to be a weapons platform for “stand-off” engagement using missles, and so was larger and heavier in order to withstand large payloads. At first, they didn’t even have machine guns. They were later added in a pod that hung beneath the plane.

Still, the F4’s maintained a 2.5 to 1 kill ratio.

From interviews and documentaries I’ve watched, the speed of the F4 was undoubtedly the deciding factor.


39 posted on 06/02/2013 6:18:32 AM PDT by FLAMING DEATH (I'm not racist - I hate Biden too!)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
...training the pilot has received and his/her skills

Lost interesting in reading right there.

40 posted on 06/02/2013 6:28:57 AM PDT by Last Dakotan
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