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Newark Archdiocese leader resigns amid sex scandal (NJ)
Associated Press ^ | May 25, 2013 1:46 PM EDT

Posted on 05/25/2013 11:38:04 AM PDT by Olog-hai

The second-highest official in the Archdiocese of Newark is stepping down in the wake of a sex scandal involving a former priest accused of violating an agreement with law enforcement barring him from working with children.

Church officials say Monsignor John Doran resigned Friday as vicar general and will no longer hold a leadership position with the archdiocese. Doran signed the agreement the former priest had reached with prosecutors in 2007. …

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: New Jersey
KEYWORDS: abusivepriests; homosexualagenda; lavendermafia; sexoffenders

1 posted on 05/25/2013 11:38:04 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

why on earth is the perp (not the archbishop) still a priest? De-frock the freak.


2 posted on 05/25/2013 11:44:29 AM PDT by Mercat
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To: Olog-hai

Good. One small step toward cleaning house.

I don’t know anything about Archbishop John Myers, but I wonder if he needs to get shoveled out too? Regrettably, you can’t trust anything that AP says about Catholic scandals, so I really don’t know.


3 posted on 05/25/2013 11:47:18 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Mercat

Not to worry - won’t be long and he can become a scoutmaster.


4 posted on 05/25/2013 11:48:12 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: Olog-hai
If some Roman Catholic priests are allowed to be married (which is,in fact,the case) then it's hard for me to see why all of them can't.Either Christ wants *all* of His vicars to be allowed to marry or none of them.Married priests would go a long way toward solving two of the Church's biggest problems (at least here)...1) a growing shortage of priests...2) the fact that such a noticeable portion of current priests are of an immoral "orientation".Although I can certainly see why Christ might want His vicars to be celibate for periods of time...just as I can see why He would want *me* to abstain from eating meat on Fridays (for example)...it's very difficult for me to see why He'd want his vicars to be celibate for THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

I'm just sayin'.....

5 posted on 05/25/2013 11:50:11 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Leno Was Right,They *Are* Undocumented Democrats!)
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To: Olog-hai

Sadly not until the Pope purges homosexuals from the priesthood and makes celibacy ( the portal by which homosexuals enter) optional, these atrocities will not end. Homosexuals have gravely hurt the Catholic church. The Boy Scout leaders are fools. Politically correct behavior is not only self deceptive but harmful.


6 posted on 05/25/2013 11:51:08 AM PDT by allendale
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To: Olog-hai

The priest was barred from working with “children.” Would that be male children, or female children? Usually when there is a problem of child rape, it’s either one sex or the other - not both.


7 posted on 05/25/2013 11:51:33 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
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To: allendale

Doesn’t celibacy apply to anal sex too?


8 posted on 05/25/2013 11:53:49 AM PDT by Cowboy Bob (Democrats: Robbing Peter to buy Paul's vote.)
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To: Mercat
The conviction being vacated due to judicial error is irrelevant. Fugee should have been dismissed from the clerical state. Myers dropped the ball and the Holy See should cashier him too.
9 posted on 05/25/2013 11:53:54 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Married priests would go a long way toward solving two of the Church's biggest problems (at least here)...1) a growing shortage of priests...2) the fact that such a noticeable portion of current priests are of an immoral "orientation".

A specious at best argument. If marriage was the panacea you think it would be then there would be no shortage of Priests in the 21 Churches in the Eastern Rites that ordain, as a norm, married men. That isn't the case. Also, explain the behavior of all of these baptists since you can't use the celibacy made them do it crutch.

it's very difficult for me to see why He'd want his(sic) vicars to be celibate for THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.

Then you need to brush up on your knowledge of Scripture to alleviate that difficulty.

10 posted on 05/25/2013 12:02:38 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Mercat

If the perp is de-frocked he’ll probably become a Boy Scout leader.


11 posted on 05/25/2013 12:04:02 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (I’m not a Republican, I’m a conservative! Pubbies haven't been conservative since before T.R.)
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To: Olog-hai

It’s funny. If he were a public school teacher, this story would be downplayed.


12 posted on 05/25/2013 12:08:09 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: allendale
celibacy ( the portal by which homosexuals enter) optional,

Nonsense. What's your explanation for the pedophilia and ephebophilia that takes place in protestant denominations and in public schools since you can't blame those crimes on celibacy?

13 posted on 05/25/2013 12:10:40 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: A.A. Cunningham

Celibacy leads to a disproportionate number of homosexuals entering the priesthood. When they reach a critical mass, they achieve real administrative power and are able to operate much more freely than if the overwhelming majority of priests were heterosexual. That is true in any organization that gives homosexuals full access and proximity to young boys.


14 posted on 05/25/2013 12:38:25 PM PDT by allendale
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To: Gay State Conservative

The persecution of the Russian Orthodox Church under Stalin provides great insight into celibacy; the Orthodox clergy could be coerced under threat to their families, while Latin-Rite Catholic priests could go to their deaths in Nazi and Bolshevik concentration camps/gulags without similar concerns (and they did). The upper echelons of the Eastern Rite Churches are celibate priests; the married priests do not advance.

Also, as others are pointing out, there is no shortage of married scout leaders, teachers, ministers and rabbis who commit the same crimes.


15 posted on 05/25/2013 1:05:04 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: Olog-hai

Soon it will be leaders of the Boy Sodomitess of America doing the same.


16 posted on 05/25/2013 1:20:27 PM PDT by libstripper
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To: A.A. Cunningham

If he was to be released from the clerical state he would no longer be the Diocese’s concern. I can just imagine the howls if even a semblance of authority over his actions was removed from the Church and placed fully in State hands.


17 posted on 05/25/2013 1:39:03 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: Gay State Conservative
Not being able to marry a woman does not change a heterosexual man into a homosexual. Radical homosexuals have been infiltrating all Judeo Christian religious organizations, government schools, Boy and Girl Scouts, trade unions, government and so forth at least since the 60s

Look what just happened to the BSA. They barred homos from the group after decades of molestation and now are abandoning the safety of children to keep the donation train running.

18 posted on 05/25/2013 2:35:08 PM PDT by Eagles6 (Valley Forge Redux)
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To: allendale
That is true in any organization that gives homosexuals full access and proximity to young boys.

So, once again, what causes homosexuals to achieve admnistrative power in protestant denominations and public education since you can't blame it on celibacy?

19 posted on 05/26/2013 8:40:16 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Seems to me all the liberal Catholics would agree that the discipline of celibacy isn’t valuable and should be ended. I mean try to find one liberal wackadoo Catholic who digs things like abortion, ‘gay marriage’ and homo-clergy in relationships who also thinks the discipline of celibacy is valuable and should be continued.

“the fact that such a noticeable portion of current priests are of an immoral “orientation”.

Compared to when, the 60s 70’s and 80’s? The abuse peaked in the late 70s-early 80’s and went down just as steeply. My guess is that gay men quit becoming priests as the broader culture accepted them. So why join a group that’s never going to change its position on acting on homosexual desires?

Freegards


20 posted on 05/26/2013 8:59:31 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed
I don't "dig" abortion or homosexual "marriage".Not one single bit.So maybe,just maybe,I'm not a "liberal Catholic".
21 posted on 05/26/2013 9:18:53 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Leno Was Right,They *Are* Undocumented Democrats!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Of course you don’t, I never said you did. What I did say is that all liberal Catholics hate the discipline of celibacy, and want to see it ended. Try to find a liberal Catholic who digs abortion, ‘gay marriage’ and priestesses who also thinks the discipline of celibacy is valuable.

Freegards


22 posted on 05/26/2013 9:24:00 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed
I don't “hate” celibacy...not even that of the lifelong variety.The lifelong variety...(as opposed to Sundays...Holy Days...maybe even Lent)...isn't necessary or even *healthy*.Does Christ *really* want his vicars to be without the “companionship” of a woman (that word being defined broadly *and* narrowly) for their *entire* lives? If so explain the former Anglican priests who,having vowed loyalty and obedience to the Holy Father,are now serving as Roman Catholic priests in the US,Canada,Britain,Ireland,Australia and elsewhere.
23 posted on 05/26/2013 9:37:17 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Leno Was Right,They *Are* Undocumented Democrats!)
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To: Gay State Conservative

Celibacy is a discipline, it isn’t a universal law, never has been, see the Eastern Catholic Churches and the Orthodox Churches. One can think it is valuable or not, but among Latin rite Catholics the liberal ones are the ones that are invariably for doing away with it in the Latin Church.

Freegards


24 posted on 05/26/2013 9:54:05 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Gay State Conservative
Does Christ *really* want his vicars to be without the “companionship” of a woman (that word being defined broadly *and* narrowly) for their *entire* lives?

Apparently so.

"Who said to them: All men take not this word, but they to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs, who were born so from their mother's womb: and there are eunuchs, who were made so by men: and there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven. He that can take, let him take it." Matthew 19:11-12

"Then Peter answering, said to Him: Behold we have left all things, and have followed thee: what therefore shall we have? And Jesus said to them: Amen, I say to you, that you, who have followed Me, in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit on the seat of His majesty, you also shall sit on twelve seats judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands for My name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall possess life everlasting. And many that are first, shall be last: and the last shall be first." Matthew 19:27-30

"Then Peter said: Behold, we have left all things, and have followed Thee. Who said to them: Amen, I say to you, there is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God's sake, Who shall not receive much more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." Luke 18:28-30

As did St. Paul.

"But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a wife, is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. And the unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit. But she that is married thinketh on the things of the world, how she may please her husband. And this I speak for your profit: not to cast a snare upon you; but for that which is decent, and which may give you power to attend upon the Lord, without impediment." 1 Corinthians 7:32-35

You quite obviously don't comprehend what the Priesthood is actually all about. The sacrifice of a conjugal life in order to fully serve God is a foreign concept to people who allow their genitals to dictate how they live their lives.

If so explain the former Anglican priests who,having vowed loyalty and obedience to the Holy Father,are now serving as Roman Catholic priests in the US,Canada,Britain,Ireland,Australia and elsewhere.

A miniscule number of men; whose career path in the Church is extremely limited, in the grand scheme of themes and who all promise to adopt the discipline of celibacy for the remainder of their life if their spouse precedes them in death. I suggest you talk to one of those men ordained under the 1980 Pastoral Provision and ask him who he devotes himself entirely to, God or his spouse. One of the two is getting short changed.

25 posted on 05/26/2013 10:53:36 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham (Barry Soetoro can't pass E-verify)
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To: Olog-hai; Mercat

there is NO sex scandal here, FReepers and the liberal press just love to bash the Catholic Church. The incident written in the newspaper had to do with a contract or agreement signed years ago and that agreement MAY have been violated. Wait for the courts to decide.


26 posted on 05/28/2013 1:00:48 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: Gay State Conservative

There’s a reason why Paul wanted deacons and bishops to be the “husband of one wife”, AFAICS (1 Timothy 3:2, 12). Furthermore, marriage is an institution God created, even to the point where God described Himself as “married” to Israel (Jeremiah 3:14 and many others) and of course the future Bride of Christ.


27 posted on 05/28/2013 1:11:14 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

and why have so many married protestant ministers and Rabbis molested children?


28 posted on 05/28/2013 2:03:19 PM PDT by Coleus
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To: Gay State Conservative

Those priests who are married were ALL married BEFORE being ordained. The Church has NO priests who married AFTER ordination. Thus, those who are priests already can’t marry now because they took a vow not to.


29 posted on 05/28/2013 2:40:26 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: vladimir998
The whole issue of celibacy for priests is a red herring. Anyone who becomes a priest knows full well going in that celibacy is the requirement. People act as if this was a surprise to the men who become priests. They are given years of discernment before they choose celibacy.

Homosexuals have chosen the priesthood in past years because it was a place that a man with no interest in having a traditional family could find a place in society. I know of several older priests who I suspect became priests because the gay lifestyle was simply not available at the time, ( say, pre-1965). The sexual revolution rewrote traditional norms such that everyone thinks "if it feels good, do it." Including liberal and homosexual priests who ignore the Church's teaching and no longer believe that homosexuality is sinful. Some of those priests became bishops. The rest is history.

30 posted on 05/28/2013 3:03:55 PM PDT by lawdave
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To: Gay State Conservative


31 posted on 05/28/2013 3:07:40 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Cowboy Bob

Celbacy has nothing to do with it.

Homosexuality is the culprit.


32 posted on 05/28/2013 3:08:21 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: GeronL
Passing the trash around.


Too often, problem teachers are allowed to leave quietly. That can mean future abuse for another student and another school district.

“They might deal with it internally, suspending the person or having the person move on. So their license is never investigated,” says Charol Shakeshaft, a leading expert in teacher sex abuse who heads the educational leadership department at Virginia Commonwealth University.

It’s a dynamic so common it has its own nicknames—“passing the trash” or the “mobile molester.”

Laws in several states require that even an allegation of sexual misconduct be reported to the state departments that oversee teacher licenses. But there’s no consistent enforcement, so such laws are easy to ignore.

School officials fear public embarrassment as much as the perpetrators do, Shakeshaft says. They want to avoid the fallout from going up against a popular teacher. They also don’t want to get sued by teachers or victims, and they don’t want to face a challenge from a strong union.



33 posted on 05/28/2013 3:11:20 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Coleus
The numbers for married Protestant ministers and family members are far higher than priests. Priests are last on the list.

The most probable pedophiles in order are:

Fathers
Teachers
Coaches
Protestant ministers

Priests are way down on the list.

So if a father is a teacher of mid-high history, coaches the girl’s basketball team and is a youth minister at his church on weekends/Sundays — watch out! He would be much more prone to pedophilia that any priest.

___________________________________________________________

Sexual Abuse of Children by Protestant Ministers

Report: Protestant Church Insurers Handle 260 Sex Abuse Cases a Year

Abuse by Protestant Ministers of Every Denomination

Child Sexual Molestation by Various Protestant Clergy

Baptist Predators website

"Yeshiva" of Brooklyn also Guilty of Child Abuse

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sex Abuse by Teachers Said Worse Than Catholic Church

WHEN BOYS ARE MOLESTED BY TEACHERS AND OTHERS IN POSITIONS OF AUTHORITY

OPS (Omaha Public Schools) didn't report abuse allegations

ANOTHER two Texas teachers arrested for having sex with their students

Forgotten Study: Abuse in School 100 Times Worse than by Priests

 


34 posted on 05/28/2013 3:14:26 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: Salvation
Homosexuality is the culprit.

Exactly.

Those who cannot admit that pederasty ... the rape or molestation of boys by older males ... is part and parcel of homosexual 'culture' ... those who insist on obscuring pederasty as "pedophilia" ... are part of the problem. They are providing aid and comfort to the enemy. They are either enemies themselves, or they are traitors.

35 posted on 05/28/2013 3:17:37 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham; Coleus; narses
A specious at best argument. If marriage was the panacea you think it would be then there would be no shortage of Priests in the 21 Churches in the Eastern Rites that ordain, as a norm, married men. That isn't the case. Also, explain the behavior of all of these baptists since you can't use the celibacy made them do it crutch.

The Herculean task of the current Papacy is to muck out the stables. Did the Church do what it should have done for ALL of these perps? Nope. Is it taking on the task now (decades later than it should have)? Yup.

A lot of changes are happening in parallel. Cleaning up the sexual predators. Restoring the Mass. Proper catechesis. The list goes on.

36 posted on 05/28/2013 3:20:14 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: A.A. Cunningham; Coleus; Salvation; Gay State Conservative
Then you need to brush up on your knowledge of Scripture to alleviate that difficulty.

Maybe you missed some of Paul's letters? Have you not read Jesus' Words? Two of the Apostles repeat them! God did not intend for man to be celibate. That is against His plan!

It is perfectly clear that anyone in leadership in the church should be not only married, but have an established family so others can see how he is able to lead. Indeed, we should all marry, man with wife!

Of course, doctrines made by men deny/ignore the existence of those doctrines instituted by God! The result is clearly seen by all casual observers. The Roman Catholic organization is a gateway for homosexual/deviant behavior. For reference, see NEWS! To make the claim that "OTHERS DO IT MORE..." is a puerile diversion from the facts of the Catholic restrictions on marriage.

Matthew 19: 4 "Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,' 5 and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh' ? 6 So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

Mark 19: 6 "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.' 7 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, 8 and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

1 Corinthians: 2 ... But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband. 3 The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body but yields it to her husband. In the same way, the husband does not have authority over his own body but yields it to his wife. 5 Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7 I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that. ...

...

1 Timothy 3: 1 Here is a trustworthy saying: Whoever aspires to be an overseer desires a noble task. 2 Now the overseer is to be above reproach, faithful to his wife, temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3 not given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4 He must manage his own family well and see that his children obey him, and he must do so in a manner worthy of full respect. 5 (If anyone does not know how to manage his own family, how can he take care of God’s church?)


37 posted on 05/28/2013 3:45:35 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("...the press had better learn from their experiences of being duped "...-Sarah Palin 5/17/13)
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To: Salvation

bump


38 posted on 05/28/2013 3:55:30 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Salvation

I have heard tha happening around here too.


39 posted on 05/28/2013 3:56:08 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: allendale

The Church has always been aware of the problem and has taken measures to deal with it. But no rule is better than its enforcement. Plenty of men were expelled from seminaries in the old days because they like being with other boys too much. Of course, many get through undetected. After Vatican II many priests forsook their calling, most to get marriied, and many just because they had been disappointed. With so many “slots” opened, bishops began to accept the scrubs and the queers. Many rationalized by accepting the new “therapy” notion, thinking they could “cure” these men.


40 posted on 05/28/2013 5:26:32 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: WVKayaker

Whatever you may feel, the Scripture is hardly clear about that. Our Lord led a celibate life, as did John the Baptist. If women played a role in his earthly mission, they were generally thrust into the background. Paul lived a celibate life and so did the other apostles, so far as we know. Virginity was highly respected state of life in the Christian community ,it can be inferred that the early Church expected an early coming family life did not play the role it played in the Jewish community as whole.


41 posted on 05/28/2013 5:38:22 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: RobbyS; A.A. Cunningham

Once heard a sermon from an elderly priest. He said the Catholic Church has faced a major crisis that could have shattered it about every 500 years. The first was the barbarian sack of Rome in ~476 when Church records, infrastructure were destroyed and many of its leaders killed. The second was the great schism with Eastern orthodoxy ~1000 AD. The third of course was the Reformation. He stated that today’s crisis with sexual molestations by the clergy was equally significant and threatening. The faithful believe that the Holy Spirit will always be present in the Church and ultimately the right corrective decisions will be made. It will take strong and wise leaders to do what is necessary.


42 posted on 05/28/2013 5:50:16 PM PDT by allendale
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To: RobbyS
Whatever you may feel ...

...Our Lord led a celibate life

Feelings don't matter at all!

Jesus role was a little different from the church. He is the Cornerstone. His role was foretold throughout the Old Testament, and confirmed in the New. He does have a "bride", if you understand Scripture. He has had "children" all through the ages.

As for John the Baptist, we do not know if he was married or not. The Scripture does not say, and historians have not categorized him either way. That is merely an assumption, not a fact.

...If women played a role in his earthly mission, they were generally thrust into the background.

... Nowhere in John does Jesus explicitly teach about the roles and nature of women. Rather, we are left with an implicit commentary by John, who portrays women as active, innovative ministers of the Kingdom. We are given only indirectly Jesus’ attitude toward women, as revealed by his words and actions: the Johannine Jesus affirms them in roles that were unusual and often unacceptable within that culture. Jesus’ approach to women was in such contrast to that of his culture that we can assume a deliberate modelling of a new way of relating to women. Surely such modelling is as valid as explicit teaching.

John’s story reveals a certain sensitivity and a deep respect for women which is evident in his selection and portrayal of incidents in Jesus’ life. The Johannine Jesus is not presented as seeking to modify the feminine role prevalent within Judaism; rather, Jesus seems to ignore it altogether as he calls women to public ministry and affirms them in the face of male opposition. ...Direction Journal

I won't bother to address the rest of your specious arguments as they hold no validity within Scripture. The Scriptures that I quoted are to the point! Peter was married (Mark 1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever..." See also: Matthew 8:14; Luke 4:38; 1 Corinthians 9:5)

1 Timothy 4:1-3 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth."

...and I will add one more note about asceticism:

Colossians 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind. 19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

20 Since you died with Christ to the elemental spiritual forces of this world, why, as though you still belonged to the world, do you submit to its rules: 21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.


43 posted on 05/28/2013 7:53:35 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("...the press had better learn from their experiences of being duped "...-Sarah Palin 5/17/13)
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To: WVKayaker

As I see it, you start from the Lutheran objection to monasticism, that this is the basis for your rejection of celibacy. But Where is there in the early Christian tradition the same emphasis on blood ties that we find in the orthodox Jewish tradition? I am not a Christian because I had a Christian Mother.


44 posted on 05/28/2013 8:57:35 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: Cicero

Most of us trust nothing the Catholic Church says about the scandals either.


45 posted on 05/29/2013 2:51:19 AM PDT by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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To: RobbyS
... But Where is there in the early Christian tradition the same emphasis on blood ties

You may not have a complete understanding of New Testament Theology. Jesus fulfilled the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 17). It is only the Roman Catholic "traditions" that are in question, not the Holy Scriptures. Traditions of Roman Catholicism are man-made, whereas Scripture is from God (2 Tim 3). Your post is just another attempt to divert/deflect and does nothing to defend against the truths I have posted!

2 Timothy 3: 15 ... how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

46 posted on 05/29/2013 4:22:39 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("...the press had better learn from their experiences of being duped "...-Sarah Palin 5/17/13)
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To: Clemenza
Most of us trust nothing the Catholic Church says about the scandals either.

Who is the "us" you are referring to?

47 posted on 06/01/2013 11:48:51 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

The ex and non-Catholic majority of this country, kemosabe.


48 posted on 06/02/2013 5:23:25 AM PDT by Clemenza ("History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil governm)
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