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REDUCED HAZARD TRAINING AMMUNITION (Big Sis wants more!)
DHS ^ | MAY 02.2013 | DHS

Posted on 05/04/2013 11:34:54 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER

10. Does your company currently produce and/or sell any of the training calibers listed above? If yes, provide a list of your Government customers to include agency name and a point of contact with phone number or email address. 11. Describe your production facilities and capabilities. 12. Describe your quality assurance program. 13. What is your experience in working with your customers to identify and correct potential quality issues? 14. Are you capable of producing any of the training calibers listed above to meet the stated performance requirements? 15. Are you capable of producing large quantity orders of any training caliber specified with a short turnaround time of 30-60 days? 16. What would your lead time be for an order of 2 million rounds of a single type listed above? 17. If you were awarded a contract for some of the calibers listed above, submitted a production lot of one million rounds and that lot or portion of the lot was not accepted, would you be able to replace that order with an additional one million rounds within 60 days? 18. Do you have the resources and mechanisms required to endure the recalling or rejection of production lots of ammunition: What is your plan for mitigating this risk? 19. Provide information to include material safety data sheets and retail price lists for all caliber types and components of training ammunition. 20. Where would production take place?

(Excerpt) Read more at fbo.gov ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: alteredsource; ammo; badlink; banglist; dhs; dhsammo; guncontrol; secondamendment
This isn't a solicitation for bids, but Big Sis is trying to find more ammo again. She needs to get in line at Walmart with everyone else!
1 posted on 05/04/2013 11:34:54 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

and my take, very dangerous to be in on this game. It should be clear to all that government has found an end run around the people, and it is going to take clear advantage for as long as the people are going to allow it. I don’t see much leadership, from the industry. That would be from shooters manufacturers, proponents like NRA or ammo folks. Some say, and that would be from a local ammo manufacturer that the reason for shortages now, are that a major portion of the public has become a buyer now instead of just previous gun owners. Don’t know how true but price and availability or lack of, is sure an issue.


2 posted on 05/04/2013 11:51:28 PM PDT by wita
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To: wita

She obviously wants to save her horde of good stuff for action.


3 posted on 05/04/2013 11:59:51 PM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

No one in their right mind trusts Big Sis.


4 posted on 05/05/2013 12:04:37 AM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Interestingly, that “good stuff” as you put it cannot be used in a military conflict covered by the Geneva Convention, being that it is *all* hollow point.


5 posted on 05/05/2013 12:07:52 AM PDT by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

US ammo makers have chosen their side.

Always remember.


6 posted on 05/05/2013 12:10:33 AM PDT by NoLibZone (None here can be puzzled by why Jews walked into the cars so quietly- we are walking up the planks.)
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To: NoLibZone
"US ammo makers have chosen their side. Always remember."

Yes, they have.

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that their licenses depended on compliance.

Let's hope one of them has the fortitude to clear the air if that's necessary

7 posted on 05/05/2013 12:29:00 AM PDT by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: voteNRA

“...their licenses depended on compliance.”

BINGO!


8 posted on 05/05/2013 2:32:22 AM PDT by carriage_hill (AR-10s & AR-15s are the Muskets of the 21st Century. Free men need not ask permission.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

More likely it’s what’s called a Request For Information (RFI). They always specify that the request is not an RFQ nor any obligations by the government to issue an order are given.

This is typically supposed to be a one-shot deal to help the government develop their requirements (realistically) in HONEST intention of procuring what they basically want.

However, I’ve dealt with unethical government organizations that think they can jerk vendors around like puppets, often issuing 3,4,5 of these things as they finally get their act together. You can usually spot it when the person or persons don’t know what they are doing by the types of information they want and the level of detail they are looking for.

On this one? It seems that they are asking a lot about the ability to produce, recover, etc.- questions you’d be asking when your requirement is urgent from an operational perspective, e.g., battlefield supply, etc. This seems a wee bit nosy for “training” needs if you ask me.

The government OWNs about 14 Ammunition Plants that are contractor operated. One wonders if the DHS even knows about this or has coordinated with the Army (that runs the contracts operating them). Left hand, meet right hand. They are looking outside that supply line and asking a whole lot of questions with no promises after answering.


9 posted on 05/05/2013 2:38:13 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

You might even think they are trying to monopolize supply.


10 posted on 05/05/2013 4:24:22 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

They might not be trying to sweep it up, but put a dent in it.

To completely monopolize, they’d have to ban importation of Mexican, Russian, and all the other countries that sellers import here.


11 posted on 05/05/2013 4:28:43 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Using Big Sis for target practice would eliminate the biggest hazard.


12 posted on 05/05/2013 4:37:51 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
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To: Gaffer

The calibers not considered primary self defense rounds are all swept up too. It looks like every old Winchester lever gun is reporting for duty.


13 posted on 05/05/2013 5:16:42 AM PDT by SWAMPSNIPER (The Second Amendment, a Matter of Fact, Not a Matter of Opinion)
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To: Gaffer

The Government owns one small arms ammunition plant. Lake CIty Army Ammunition Plan in Missouri. Not 14.


14 posted on 05/05/2013 5:18:40 AM PDT by IndispensableDestiny
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Why do we even have the DHS?


15 posted on 05/05/2013 5:50:53 AM PDT by hadaclueonce (dont worry about Mexico, put the fence around kalifornia.)
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To: IndispensableDestiny

As late as 2000+ the Army had been looking at small arms ammunition procurement and had an investigation/study done. In that investigation there were a total of 14 still-active plants. True some, maybe a lot of them were deactivated, but there is not JUST ONE plant. Take a look at McAlester Ammunition Plant, for example. I’m not going to search back through the rest of the list to make a point. McAlester was enough for me.


16 posted on 05/05/2013 5:50:59 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Yea...I find it hard to believe DHS or ATF or any of them for that matter need a 45 LONG COLT, but they had it on their list (one of them, anyway).

My only guess is that some of them Rambos have personal Taurus Judges or S&W Governors they want to steal ammo for.


17 posted on 05/05/2013 5:53:02 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

Probably testing body armor and ballistics.


18 posted on 05/05/2013 5:54:26 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: SWAMPSNIPER

Anyone selling to the DHS is selling to the enemy. After the number of rounds ordered/ purchased is known, Congress needs to force the SA, err, the DHS to sell it back to the American public.
Big Sis is Ernst Rohm transgendered.


19 posted on 05/05/2013 7:00:27 AM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est.)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER; All

The link’s not working correctly. It does not connect to the quote. Instead it conects to a general form. Please correct the link so we can see what ammo they’re looking for.


20 posted on 05/05/2013 7:06:02 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: shibumi
" Interestingly, that “good stuff” as you put it cannot be used in a military conflict covered by the Geneva Convention, being that it is *all* hollow point."

Your posts have no validity or value because of the erroneous information presented. The Geneva Conventions deal with the treatment of war prisoners and do not address the subject at hand. It is The Hague Conventions that address acceptable methods and bullet types used when conducting civilized warfare between nations. Those conventions only apply to uniformed enemy soldiers, not against terrorists or during civil wars. In addition, the U.S. did not sign the Hague Conventions, although we generally conform to the Standards.

" US ammo makers have chosen their side."

Which side of what? The U.S. commercial ammunition manufacturers are running at maximum capacity and have never produced more ammunition than recently. The U.S. government buys only a tiny fraction of that production. The majority is being purchased and hoarded by civilian conspiracy freaks who believe the nonsense published on various Internet forums by genuine, low information, kooks.

Please gets your 'facts' straight before posting additional misinformation.

21 posted on 05/05/2013 7:13:14 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER
This is frangible bulleted ammunition intended to be fired against hardened steel backstops and/or targets at close range during training. It is designed to reduce ricochets and bullet particle spash back that might injure the students or trainers.

Such ammunition is not available at Wal-Mart or most retail outlets.

22 posted on 05/05/2013 7:20:16 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: carriage_hill
“...their licenses depended on compliance.”

That is total B.S. Who makes up such nonsense?

23 posted on 05/05/2013 7:22:50 AM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: SWAMPSNIPER; All

Here’s a correct link that shows the types and amounts of ammo being purchased:

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=bfd4278417a546cf45ee194e54fab5b5&_cview=0

That document also describes what “reduced hazard ammunition” is. It’s something that is not environmentally objectionable, as defined by DHS, and, with most ammo types, is frangible.


24 posted on 05/05/2013 7:53:56 AM PDT by libstripper
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To: Buffalo Head
" " US ammo makers have chosen their side."

Which side of what? The U.S. commercial ammunition manufacturers are running at maximum capacity and have never produced more ammunition than recently. The U.S. government buys only a tiny fraction of that production. The majority is being purchased and hoarded by civilian conspiracy freaks who believe the nonsense published on various Internet forums by genuine, low information, kooks.

Please gets your 'facts' straight before posting additional misinformation.


The quote you are "responding" to was not posted by me.

Please get your "facts" straight before unleashing your vitriolic invective.

Also lease note that The Geneva Convention and the two Hague Conferences are often referred to by international law scholars in a collective manner as a single body comprising the laws of warfare.

If my failure to satisfactorily split hairs to your liking disturbs you well ..... sorry.
25 posted on 05/05/2013 8:26:50 AM PDT by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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To: shibumi
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_hollow_point_ammunition_banned_by_Geneva_convention#page2

“Hollow point ammunition is not banned by the Geneva Convention. This is often incorrectly believed. The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in international warfare of bullets which easily expand or flatten in the body. The crucial point is “warfare”. They are legal for hunting and in some situations (inside an aircraft as an example, self defence and law enforcement) where it is preferential to contain the round.”

Some hollow point ammo that the Military uses is not designed for expansion but for stability of flight in long range use.

LLS

26 posted on 05/05/2013 8:28:01 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Gaffer
janet nappytano wouldn't know about Lake City and other plants if they bit her on her fat lesbian butt.

LLS

27 posted on 05/05/2013 8:32:49 AM PDT by LibLieSlayer (FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS!)
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To: Buffalo Head

That’s what the article said; I didn’t write it. DHS (ATF etc) has got their tentacles into so much these days, it wouldn’t surprise me.


28 posted on 05/05/2013 8:51:19 AM PDT by carriage_hill (AR-10s & AR-15s are the Muskets of the 21st Century. Free men need not ask permission.)
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To: shibumi

However it and identical LE ammunition can be and is used by local, state, federal law enforcement. If a citizen or alien is fired upon by LE within US borders, the ammunition is always or nearly always Jacketed hollow points.


29 posted on 05/05/2013 8:52:10 AM PDT by TFMcGuire (Liberalism Is Hatred)
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To: TFMcGuire
Thank you.

That was my point, hollow though it may be.

(Rip! Snort! Guffaw! Chuckle! The Devil made me do it!)
30 posted on 05/05/2013 8:55:23 AM PDT by shibumi (Cover it with gas and set it on fire.)
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