Skip to comments.South Africa facing an unpredictable future after Nelson Mandela
Posted on 05/02/2013 6:39:23 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
Mandela is on the mend. Good news. The bag I packed can be unpacked. But not for long I fear.
For the truth is Mandela is on the wane. At 94, with recurring lung infections and pneumonia, hes spending almost as much time in hospital as out of it.
A couple of years ago, during another of Mandelas bouts of ill health, I spoke to his wife Graca.
The body is frail, she told me, but inside is one tough guy.
She is obviously right. Once again the old trouper has confounded the odds.
But South Africa must brace itself for what comes next. And what comes next may not be pretty.
Mandela has long removed himself from the day to day running of South Africa. He transcends party politics.
But he remains idolised by blacks and whites.
He is the grandfather of the nation whose presence is effectively the glue that bonds the new South Africa together.
I dont believe for a moment the wild, dark theories that predict violent chaos once hes gone.
There is somehow a well entrenched myth that blacks are waiting for his passing to wreak revenge on the white population with some kind of night of the long knives or ethnic cleansing.
(Excerpt) Read more at mirror.co.uk ...
“Millions of people.....are still living in shacks without running water.”
“Freeeeeeeeee Nelson Mandela. Freeeeeeeeeeeeeee Nelson Mandela.”
“There is somehow a well entrenched myth that blacks are waiting for his passing to wreak revenge on the white population with some kind of night of the long knives or ethnic cleansing.
It’s a myth? Well, let’s test that by sending white liberals to the middle of Johannesburg at the moment he croaks..
I think the future of South Africa is very predictable.
What's that old ANC ditty Jacob Zuma likes to sing? "Bring Me My Machine Gun"?
“I’m gonna get me a shotgun and kill all the whities I see....”
I think the future of South Africa is very predictable.
South Africa of the late 1970’s and early 80’s was something to behold. The country was very clean, orderly and businesses thrived. The Carlton Centre http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlton_Centre was the epicenter of commerce in “Joburg.” The outdoor bar at the Balalaika Hotel in the suburb of Sandton http://www.hotelscombined.com/Hotel/Protea_Hotel_Balalaika_Sandton.htm was the place to socialize on balmy Friday evenings after work.
And the almost as popular "C-I-L-L... My Landlord"
I think the future of South Africa is very predictable.
With a dash of Rwanda thrown in to keep things interesting
It’s hard to imagine South Africa not going the way of Zimbabwe in the end.
While I dislike apartheid, I can’t help wondering: what have the blacks gained since its demise? They seem to have won the battle but lost the war: AIDS, crime, unemployment, everything else.
Same here. However, for all its faults, the old South Africa did a better job of providing opportunity and safety to blacks than the new South Africa.
Ditto, Rhodesia/now Dysfunctional Zimbabwe.
Which reminds me of that classical philosophical question: Is it better to serve in heaven or rule in hell?
I wasn’t aware that Mandela was such a great guy.
Oh, this is a British paper. Where Thatcher was “wrong” about him, per Labour leaders in their tribute to her.
Entirely predictable. See Zimbabwe.
On the contrary, SA’s future was entirely predictable as long as the ANC was in power. Because one thing Communist governments are guaranteed to do is run their countries into the ground.
The country has been in a downward spiral ever since the whites there were demonized.
How bizarre to predict that "There is somehow a well entrenched myth that blacks are waiting for his passing to wreak revenge on the white population with some kind of night of the long knives or ethnic cleansing.
Hasn't that been happening all along since this necklacing murdering communist Mandela has been running things?
Don't the leftists in our country idolize him as a great elder statesman and healer kind of like they do Clinton (an impeached criminal rapist and molester) and Carter (an American hating traitor?)
The dismantling of their nuclear program coincided with the looming majority ANC rule. A supremely wise decision.
It’s predictable, just look at Zimbabwe.
very predictaable: see Zimbabwe
Zimbabwe, hell, it'll be Haiti circa 1804.
Afrikaners spent three hundred years building South Africa. Look at what happened to it in just twenty years.
Fact is, it's right. Just look at the former Rhodesia, and the other former British colonies. Killing white farmers is the new blood sport out in the bush.
But don't go by me ..... search the Net, see what white Africans say.
There are three widely accepted subspecies of homo sapiens sapiens : Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid
My deleted post was a question regarding the latter of the three, collectively, and their socio/economic record in relation to self-governance.
Has FR reached a point at which honest discussion with long-accepted anthropological identifiers is to be either whined into deletion or outright censored ?
What were your exact words that got your post deleted? FReepmail me please.
I suppose that's the beauty of wielding the delete button .. poof! goes the transcript !
As long as it’s an intellectual argument backed by proven statistics, I don’t see any problems here.
As someone who travels to South Africa at least once every three to four months I can say that it is true the country has definite problems. Now, the CBDs of Johannesburg and certain areas of Cape Town are much more developed compared to all of Africa, as well as many of the European and American cities I have been to. However, there are some real problems with that country that appear, to me, to be hard-baked. Crime is a real issue, as is the real problem that more and more black South Africans who never experienced apartheid are coming to adulthood. In essence, anyone born after 1980 (Black, Colored and Indian) either never experienced apartheid, or was simply too young to truly experience any negative ramifications by the time the system changed in 1994 (someone born in 1980 would have been around 14). That is the real problem, since the older folk who knew how apartheid was will always see the current system as MUCH better compared to that, but the newer generations have nothing to compare it to. That is where the problem will come from once Mandela passes on.
Anyways, as to your statement that the old South Africa did a better job of providing opportunity and safety to blacks than the new South Africa. Well, that is simply not true. So not the case that it is tacitly humorous.
Let's see. They could not vote. Only the 16% (then) of whites could vote, with 84% either partly or fully disenfranchised (at the 1994 elections the Blacks, Coloreds and Indians could finally fully participate). The blacks were restricted to living in Bantustans. Electrification was largely non-existent for the black population (less than a third had access to electricity), formal housing, piped water, etc. Inability to operate a business in white areas, or even being present in certain areas with what was called a 'dumb pass.' Getting a passport was next to impossible. A horrible education system (which is why even today you will see Kenyans holding certain positions there because, until recently, most black South Africans simply hadn't gotten that good of an education).
Is it possible to find a Black (or Colored - that is mixed race - or even Indian) South African who prefers the Apartheid system to the current state of events? Well, I am sure it is possible. Even probable. This planet has over 7 billion people now, and it is possible to find someone who will ascribe to anything. A couple years back I read about a German (I believe) man who responded to an ad placed by some kook who wanted to eat human flesh! Thus, anything is possible! However, can you find many Blacks in South Africa willing to go back to that? Absolutely not!
The current South Africa is wracked with crime, with disease, with lack of opportunity. So was old SA ...it is not as if AIDS was magically kept in check pre-1994. However, you will also find that most people will not necessarily opt to being treated like a dog in their country.
As for (1) serving in heaven or ruling in hell. Well, the question is better phrased as (2) serving in hell or ruling in (also) hell (if one takes a more tempered view), or (3) serving in heaven or ruling in (also) heaven (if someone takes a FAR more exuberant view). Number 1 never existed, because for a Black, the vast majority of Coloreds, and a number of Indian South Africans during Apartheid, it was not serving in heaven but rather serving in hell. Given a choice between serving in hell or ruling in hell I believe many would rather be the veritable devil rather than be the poor sop at the bottom of the heap. If you will suffer either way it better come with some perks.
Anyways, long story short. One will be hard pressed to find many logical Black/Colored/Asian people who would prefer Apartheid to the current system, even though the current system has many (many) faults.
Which is why I personally believe the breaking point after Mandela passes on will come from the many young Black South Africans who were born after 1980. They have nothing to compare the current system against, and they will rise up. The South African government has apparently managed to shut up the youthful firebrand Julius Malema (by basically destroying him politically and financially ...I believe he is getting some crazy back taxes that have basically squeezed him shut). Good move by the SA government since that chap was quite dangerous, but I believe he is just the first of many. Some compare SA to Zimbabwe ...well, in Zimbabwe you had a strong man ruler for a long time, meaning all the craziness was coming from him. No such thing in SA, and also SA is an interesting country where you see lots of very obvious wealth surrounded by a sea of poverty. It is a BRICS economy with quite a bit of opulence in key areas of, say, Jo'burg and Cape Town, but then all around is a mass of lack. All that is needed is the right populist spark and it will make Venezuela look like a cake walk.
Thus, there are real issues. Issues that may not have an easy solution. However, you will not find many who are Black, many who are colored, and a number who are Indian, willing to exchange that for a return to old South Africa. Yet, it can be said that looking at it from the other side of the coin, it can also be said that during Apartheid the system did run much better (for the minority whites though) than it does now.
- If I was white I would probably prefer the way things were run then.
- If I was rich Asian with the appropriate connections then I would prefer the way things were run then.
- If I was a rich Asian with the appropriate connections NOW, I would prefer the way things are run now (e.g the South African Gupta family that has deep connections in ANC and brought a private plane filled with guests for a wedding from India, landing in a military airport to much controversy).
- If I was Colored I would prefer the current system, unless I was a Colored with certain privileges living in certain areas near Cape Town.
- If I was a Black South African I would overwhelmingly prefer the current system.
Like anything else it is dependent on a lot of gray areas. One thing that is FACT though is that, to go back to the original statement, the old South Africa did not do a better job of 'providing opportunity and safety to blacks than the new South Africa.' There was no opportunity, and crime prevailed in the Bantustans (together with child mortality that could be compared to that in Central Africa).
Didn't finish that sentence properly. I meant that in Zimbabwe at least all the crazy is from one person, since Mugabe is the real strongman there. In SA crazy will come from many angles, and it has the potential of being FAR worse. Far worse by several degrees of magnitude. If the proverbial balloon ever goes up in SA it will be nothing like Zimbabwe. In Zimbabwe you had lots of crazy coming from one man, in a country that even at its peak was never close to current South Africa economically. In SA what you have, to use an analogy, is like taking some choice parts out of the prime hedgefund areas of Connecticut, mixing them with some of the shopping malls from Bel Air (I got a very nice automatic mall last Wednesday from a shopping mall in Jo'burg), and then ...all around them ...putting a mix of the craziest favelas from Rio and slums from Mexico city. If the balloon goes up it will NOT be like Zimbabwe. Zim is a relatively poor country ruled by one man with an iron fist. SA is a relatively wealthy country with a lot of conflicting interest and the vast majority of people not participating in any of the income. As I said, all it needs is the right populist spark and you'll see Hugo Chavez's ghost wondering why he never thought up such stuff.
very nice automatic mall = very nice automatic watch