Posted on 04/30/2013 11:41:30 AM PDT by pinochet
Before we talk about comparative birth rates in Muslim and Christian nations, we have to talk about a weakness that 21st Century Christianity faces in its competition with Islam. A Martyr in the Christian religion is one who dies for his faith. A Martyr in the Muslim religion is not just one who dies for his faith, but one who kills for his faith. How is Christianity going to compete with people who are not just willing to die for their religion, but to kill for their religion?
Birth rates among almost all Western Christian nations are below replacement, and that includes America. Eastern European birth rates are also below replacement. In the non-white areas of the world that have Christians, e.g. Latin America and Africa, they look to Europeans as their role models, because Europe brought Christianity to those countries. But Europe's greatest export is socialism, and many Latin American and African nations are embracing socialism. Latin America has Hugo Chavez and Bolivia has Evo Morales, while Africa has Mandela and Mugabe, all socialist/communist trend-setters for those regions.
One of the consequences of socialism is excessive use of contraception and abortion. The ANC legalized abortion in South Africa in 1997. You are going to see more use of contraception and abortion among third world Christians, because they see Europeans as their role models. Third world immigrants to Europe and America vote for left-wing political parties, which are pro-abortion.
What about the Muslim world? They encourage polygamy, which increases the number of children. Nigeria is today split 50-50 between Muslims and Christians. But Nigerian Christians are better educated, practice monogamy, and use contraception. The Muslims in Northern Nigeria impose sharia and burkas on their women, discourage contraception, and practice polygamy, which maximizes the number of children. What is significant about Nigeria? The country has the largest population of any country in Africa, of 160 million. Where Nigeria goes, the rest of Africa will follow.
With regard to India, I came across this anti-Jihad website that reveals that India's Muslims are out-breeding the Hindus: http://sioespain.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/study-shows-that-muslims-will-conquer-the-world-by-2050/
The website says that India's Hindu women are having 2.9 children per woman, while India's Muslims are having 4.1 children per family.
We need to remember that Turkey was once a Christian nation, the heart of the great Christian Byzantine Empire. The biggest Turkish City, Istanbul, used to be called Constantinople, a city named after a Christian emperor, Constantine. The North African nations of Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia and Egypt, were also, at one time, Christian nations.
Amnesty will finish us off by 2020.
It is said Africans are now coming to America as missionaries to lead Americans back to Christ.
Yeah, I just hope that God is out there to help a little bit in the upcoming “Mad Max” world.
NO, we are gonna die, Just Like ROME!
Homosexual Marriage: Following in the Footsteps of Roman Emperor Nero
This isn’t the first time homosexual marriage has been embraced by civil officials and the general population. The book of Ecclesiastes declares:
That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
Is there anything of which one might say,
“See this, it is new”?
Already it has existed for ages
Which were before us (1:9–11)
It’s what we do about these things that make all the difference.
The Greeks and Romans promoted and practiced homosexuality and the general population initially accepted it. Craig Turner offers a summary of the history:
“The practice of homosexuality in the Roman Empire had increased during the early years until the Romans accepted and adopted the pederasty [love of boys] of the Greeks (fornication with boys ages 12 to 18). Though at first the acts were considered acceptable only if the boy was a slave, the Romans eventually extended their tolerance of homosexual acts to adult men, both free and slave. Same-sex marriage, once unthinkable, was not far behind.
Well, we no longer teach history(now an elective), and not enough people read the Bible either.
I think you mean in the developed countries?
In either case, you are still wrong. Data is slightly harder to come by, when referring to subpopulations, but the birth rate among North Africans in France — a fairly good proxy for religion, since most French Muslims are from France’s North African colonies — is less than 2.4. That’s marginally higher than France’s native (”cosmopolitan”) population (1.9), but not enough to skew anything crazily.
And yes, Mohammed is England’s #1 boy’s name, but that’s because it accounts for a third of all Muslims, whereas the most common boy’s names among everyone else accounts for less than 1% of the population. The days of everyone being named Joseph, Harry or George are long gone.
Yes, But you’re smarter than that, I not worried about “EVERYBODY”
Well here’s a message to “EVERYBODY”
BEND OVER and KISS YOUR BUTT GOODBYE!
How is that for PLAIN ENGLISH?
He IS!
Loud & clear.
>>It is said Africans are now coming to America as missionaries to lead Americans back to Christ.
I hear that too. I have met Korean missionaries that are working in the US. They are interesting and full of the Spirit, and most Americans just tell them, “Don’t worry. I know who Jesus is” and then tune out the rest. We need to lose our arrogance that this is a “Christian Nation” before we’ll be ready to hear.
One is free to advocate Communism in Capitalist nations.
Advocating Capitalism in a Communist nation meant your death.
We still beat the Communists.
A historical curiosity - but homosexual “marriage” was legal in Rome for a long time - and they fell sometime AFTER they made it illegal.
Not that I think the two are in any way connected.
I'm sorry. Islam already has.
In just one century after Muhammad's death (roughly 632-750) the Rashidun and Umayyad Caliphates physically took over 1/2 of Christendom, drove out, forced the Islamization of, or destroyed the Christian communities therein, and have kept the territory to this day.
Christianity was "a" or "the" major religion of what is now the Middle East and SW Asia --- Anatolia/Asia Minor (now called Turkey), along the Caucasus, the Armenians, the Georgians, the Eastern Assyrians, Jordan, Lebanon, the Persians (now called Iran) the Chaldeans (now called Iraq), along the Silk Road to the Indus. We hardly know these people even existed --- communities founded by the Apostles and their first and second and third-generation successors --- because the Muslims destroyed, not only their communities, but every architectural trace of them, churches, monasteries, libraries, documents.
Christianity was "a" or "the" major religion of the people of Northern Africa --- Egypt, Libya, the Barbary Coast (al- Maghreb) --- as well as Ethiopia along the Red Sea. They didn't "thrive" under persecution. They survived in scattered, garbled fragments under dhimmitude; at this point, even the remnants--- Copts, etc. --- are disappearing before our very eyes.
If it weren't for astute archaeological and paleographic detective work by the historians of dhimmitude like Bat Ye'or, we wouldn't even know that we lost half a Christian world, and never recovered it.
The exception to this was the Iberian Peninsula --- Al-Andalus, now called Spain and Portugal --- where the Catholic Spanish fought a 700-year war to drive out the Caliphate: the only major territory, to my knowledge, that the Muslims once ruled but were pushed out of.
Which brings me to my second point. The Christians that are left, have for the most part succumbed, not to force, but to secularization. They've got themselves contracepted, spayed, buggered, aborted, and in every way rendered perverse and sterile. This by choice, not by force.
You think they'll struggle for Christ and be glorious martyrs, whose blood is the seed of the Church? Will they seize a Christian future? They've aborted their Christian future.
At this point, Islam is just surging into a vacuum.
Can God work miracles? Definitely. Usually, after the crucifixion.
Muslims are converting to Christianity in large numbers in Indonesia and if trends continue that nation will cease to be a majority Muslim country at some point.
Here’s a link to an article on the move to Christianity in Indonesia:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1982223,00.html
Hard to get a good handle on facts, especially in a place like Indonesia, with its many, many islands, languages and peoples. However, let's think this through.
A high-side optimistic estimate would be one million conversions from Islam to Christianity per year. (Conversions don't all come from Muslims; they come from Animists and even from Chinese Communists in Indonesia, too.) The population of Indonesia is around 250 million, about 80% Muslim, 10% Christian, and 10% another including Hindu, Confucist and Animist. So, say 200 million Muslims. If one million convert from Muslim to Christian per year, that makes the annual conversion rate 0.5%.
Speaking carefully, five tenths of one percent is not what I would call massive.
(I am chastened when I think of a handful of people in my own family who have in practice exited Christianity. I would bet that many Freeper families know the sadness of seeing many -- well, use the term "backslidden" family members.)
I could well be wrong. I want to be wrong. I am open to the Holy Spirit's surprises.
And no, I am not wrong at least according to Mark Steyn in his excellent book, America Alone, The End of the World As We Know It.
From a review of the book:
Do you remember years ago forecasters urged population control? Europe heeded this warning and now faces two factors that will change it drastically: its population is aging and couples are not reproducing themselves.
According to Steyn, these are the statistics of the population under the age of 15: Spain and Germany--14%, United Kingdom--18%, the United States--21%. On the other hand Saudi Arabia's 15 and under is 39%, Pakistan--40%, and Yemen--47%.
Who is reproducing themselves: the US at 2.1 babies per couple, Saudi Arabia at 7.46, Mali at 7.42, Somalia at 6.76, Afghanistan at 6.69, Ireland at 1.9, New Zealand at 2.11. There are Germany and Austria at 1.3, Russia and Italy at 1.2, and Spain at 1.1. Those with birthrates over 2 are Muslim; those under Caucasian Christian.
With an aging population and declining birthrate and a swelling benefits package supplied by the government, who will pay for this social welfare?
Sorry, I'll go with Mark's assessment.
Not sure why, but Mark Steyn is using terribly dated data. Saudi Arabia’s TFR was 7.46... in the 1960s. Today, it is 2.26. He’s chosen precisely the worst data to make his point, whether it comes from the 1960s, 1990s, or today.
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