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Smoking and the Right to Dumb Choices
Los Angeles Times ^ | April 24, 2013

Posted on 04/24/2013 2:44:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway

New York's proposal to ban purchases by those under 21 is off-base.

As thoroughly awful as everyone knows cigarettes to be — still the No. 1 cause of premature death in this country — public officials walk a blurry line when they try to reduce smoking's terrible toll. As long as they lack the will to ban tobacco altogether, they face all sorts of ethical, legal and political problems in regulating a product that is, after all, perfectly legal.

High tobacco taxes, critics say, unfairly punish smokers, who are disproportionately low income. Banning advertising of a legal product raises free-speech issues. And can tobacco companies really be forced to put large graphic warnings on their own products to discourage customers from buying them? Does that make sense?

Now, the New York City Council, backed by Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, is considering another tactic: making it illegal for anyone younger than 21 to buy cigarettes. Currently, anyone 18 or over can buy a pack.

Bloomberg has taken a lot of ribbing for previous nanny-state proposals involving salt and trans-fats and, especially, for his plan to ban the serving of soft drinks larger than 16 ounces. The new proposal would, at least theoretically, make cigarettes difficult to obtain by those who are most vulnerable to peer pressure and tobacco marketing. Prevention makes sense because smoking is so addictive that more than 85% of those who try to quit relapse.

Yet the good intentions are outweighed by the proposal's problems. For one thing, it's practically doomed to have minimal effect. A 20-minute bus ride will transport any Bronx resident to neighboring Yonkers, where 18-year-olds would still be allowed to buy as many cartons as they wanted. According to the U.S. Surgeon General, nearly 90% of smokers

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: drugs; drugwar; pufflist; smoking; tobacco; warondrugs; wod; wodlist; wosd

1 posted on 04/24/2013 2:44:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway
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To: nickcarraway

Now try rereading this essay, but in place of “tobacco” fill in the words “big soda pop.”

Then, for absolute veracity, reread it filling in the words, “Whatever Mayor Bloomberg feels he doesn’t like.”

America in the Twenty-first Century.


2 posted on 04/24/2013 2:48:20 PM PDT by Jack Hammer (American)
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To: nickcarraway; windcliff

I suggest a minimum IQ to hold political office.


3 posted on 04/24/2013 2:53:11 PM PDT by I Drive Too Fast
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To: nickcarraway

Bloomberg is a control freak. It is a personality disorder. He needs to seek help. (I hope he doesn’t have any guns since he is mentally imbalanced and all....)


4 posted on 04/24/2013 2:55:56 PM PDT by Girlene
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To: nickcarraway

Starting the countdown till the resident “CONSERVATIVE” (you know, those folks who profess to adhere to the constitution on matters of personal rights) nico-nazi’s join in...........


5 posted on 04/24/2013 2:59:06 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: nickcarraway
And can tobacco companies really be forced to put large graphic warnings on their own products to discourage customers from buying them?

Don't liberals want to do just that?
Replace "tobacco companies" with Planned Parenthood and see what they say.....

6 posted on 04/24/2013 2:59:33 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: nickcarraway

The problem is that too many people want the gov’t to be parent. Smoking, drinking porn, drugs, crappy food—the whole lot. Can’t people make up their minds not to do something even though it may not be banned or made illegal or some kind of a restriction put on it by the state?


7 posted on 04/24/2013 3:00:06 PM PDT by brooklyn dave (I hope the FEMA camps are comfortable when they come for me)
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To: nickcarraway
By the way, according to a recent anti-smoking ad I saw on TV, diabetes is now caused by smoking........

Lots of propaganda ads against smoking featuring gruesome vids going on these days. I wonder why the pro-life, aka ANTI-ABORTION, groups aren't allowed to air the same type of ad campaigns?..........I know, dumb question.

8 posted on 04/24/2013 3:02:57 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: nickcarraway

[[public officials walk a blurry line when they try to reduce smoking’s terrible toll.]]

They don’t weaqlk ANY line- they jumped clean across any line a long time ago and no logner care whether what they do is legal or constitutional or not- they are blatantly givign American citizens the middle finger because they learned that American will do NOTHING to prevent htem from vioalting our rights


9 posted on 04/24/2013 3:03:54 PM PDT by CottShop (Scientific belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge)
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To: nickcarraway
As long as they lack the will to ban tobacco altogether...

Time to ban newspapers, altogether!

Before any of you bleeding heart smoker haters jump me, I don't smoke, but won't tell others they can't. Their business!

10 posted on 04/24/2013 3:12:24 PM PDT by Bushbacker1 (Molon Labe! (Oathkeeper))
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To: nickcarraway
As thoroughly awful as everyone knows cigarettes to be — still the No. 1 cause of premature death in this country — public officials walk a blurry line when they try to reduce smoking's terrible toll.

Being a faggot shortens your lifespan more than smoking.

11 posted on 04/24/2013 3:16:23 PM PDT by MarineBrat (Better dead than red!)
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To: nickcarraway

Ok Doomberg...I call you on cigarettes and raise you voting until 21 years of age.

Further, I will re-raise your over 21 voters to land owner voters.


12 posted on 04/24/2013 3:16:44 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (The Government is actively preparing to go to War with a significant portion of its own Citizens.)
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To: nickcarraway

So if high tobacco taxes discourage smoking, what do high income taxes do?


13 posted on 04/24/2013 3:17:34 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Marx smelled bad & lived with his parents most his life.)
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To: nickcarraway
still the No. 1 cause of premature death in this country

What number is homosexual sodomy? When is this jagov going to ban it?

14 posted on 04/24/2013 3:18:23 PM PDT by Some Fat Guy in L.A. (Still bitterly clinging to rational thought despite it's unfashionability)
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To: nickcarraway

Cigarette smugglers rejoice.


15 posted on 04/24/2013 3:21:27 PM PDT by Standing Wolf
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To: Ouderkirk

I was making a similar argument at work today with some nanny stater lovers. If an 18 year old isn’t responsible enough to make a personal decision such as smoking or having a beer, why do we let them vote for things affecting the entire nation?

Of course I know the answer. This enables the dems to win more elections due to the easily swayed age group coming from the mass indoctrination centers we commonly call schools and universities. It’s easy to convince young adults to vote for a seemingly Utopian society when they have no clue it can never happen.


16 posted on 04/24/2013 3:23:01 PM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: Hot Tabasco

I had a smoke nazi try to tell me his best BFF died of prostate cancer because he smoked. I said he was either using his butt as an ashtray, or they were engaged in what some might call, non-traditional whoopee. Thought I was gonna have to leave a mark on the poofster to get him to calm down. Jeez they’re touchy.


17 posted on 04/24/2013 3:33:27 PM PDT by 5 Second Rule (I'm not talking about my food. I'm talking about my dates...)
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To: I Drive Too Fast
no problem, bloomturd HAS a minimum IQ...
18 posted on 04/24/2013 3:36:44 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: nickcarraway

Plan B for every female child!

Just don’t wash it down with a big soda or have a cig after sex.


19 posted on 04/24/2013 3:44:18 PM PDT by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
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To: Hot Tabasco
That's the only reason I clicked on the thread. There's one Freeper that would ban tobacco if he were tyrant for a day.

In other news, my tobacco is growing great in the garden. ;)

/johnny

20 posted on 04/24/2013 3:58:41 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: nickcarraway

What angers me is my government telling businessmen what they cannot do in their places.

Bar owners should have the right to be a smoking bar or a non smoking bar..patrons can then decide which one to go too


21 posted on 04/24/2013 4:00:56 PM PDT by South Dakota (shut up and build a bakken pipe line)
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To: nickcarraway
As thoroughly awful as everyone knows cigarettes to be — still the No. 1 cause of premature death in this country —

I though it was abortions . . . 3,300 every day for about 1,500,000 per year. What am I missing?

22 posted on 04/24/2013 4:06:53 PM PDT by laweeks
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To: South Dakota
Bar owners should have the right to be a smoking bar or a non smoking bar..

My senior softball team is getting sponsored by a bar/restaurant that we always go to after our games here in S.E. Michigan.

The bar actually built a heated enclosure with ceiling ventilation on the back of the building to accomodate its smokers........

One has to wonder why they went to all that cost and effort to accomodate smokers if they weren't afraid they would lose precious business...........

But hell, the govt. knows best.........

23 posted on 04/24/2013 4:08:30 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (This space for rent)
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To: nickcarraway

Most cigarette smokers lack sleep for long periods of time at some period or other in their lives, IMO (infantry-related duties, night/swing shift employees, laborers with long drives home, all). Quitting requires repeated efforts, healthier exercise and persistent sleep habits for many to quit. There are also noticeable physical changes for older folks who quit. Don’t blame or browbeat smokers. Encourage them.


24 posted on 04/24/2013 4:20:45 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: nickcarraway

Vehicle accidents are most likely the number one cause of premature death, BTW.


25 posted on 04/24/2013 4:22:04 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of rotten politics smelled around the planet.)
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To: nickcarraway
I've been smoking for 46 years, and I'm pretty sure I can still whip anybody's a$$ that has a problem with it. The fallback position is I'll just shoot the troublemaker.

What do I have to lose? My Freedom? HA!!!

26 posted on 04/24/2013 4:25:08 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: I Drive Too Fast

Some ideas are so stupid only an intellectual could believe them.


27 posted on 04/24/2013 4:25:33 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (Making good people helpless doesnÂ’t make bad people harmless.)
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To: familyop
Vehicle accidents are most likely the number one cause of premature death, BTW.

They're not "accidents" anymore. They are now "crashes".

"Accidents" just happen. "Crashes" have a cause or two for which somebody can lose a significant portion of their net worth.

It's like Obama saying we would find out "who" and "why" the boston bombers did what they did. I still haven't heard "why".

28 posted on 04/24/2013 4:47:29 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: nickcarraway

I have suspected for many years that the cigarette manufacturers, back when the prohibition first started, were actually pushing for the laws that prohibit merchants from selling tobacco to minors. At that point, smoking was becoming less popular all around. I think that someone figured out that a great way to get teens to take up the habit was to make it taboo for them.

I have no proof of my claims. Just a hunch.


29 posted on 04/24/2013 4:53:53 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Restore us, O God of hosts; let your face shine, that we may be saved! -Ps80)
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To: nickcarraway

Before about age 21, children are more susceptible to addictive substances, as their brains are not fully mature, and adjust themselves to be more easily addicted, and harder to break out of the addiction.

The closer they get to 21, the harder it is to program their brain this way, and after 21, it is hard for them to get addicted, and easier for them to break their addiction.

Importantly, getting addicted to anything before 21 makes it easier to get addicted to other addictive substances for the rest of their lives as well.

For this reason, it is not out of the question to consider a complete addictive substance prohibition against minors under 21. Not just illegal drugs, but especially alcohol, the most dangerous drug, nicotine, caffeine, as well as strict controls for addictive pharmaceutical drugs as well. This means drugs against ADHD/ADD, antidepressants, addictive painkillers and other trendy pharma.

(I will add that addiction applies to psychological conditioning as well. This is why socialists, cultish religions and military recruiters prefer those under 21, as their brains are more malleable.)


30 posted on 04/24/2013 4:55:05 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (Best WoT news at rantburg.com)
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To: elkfersupper
You are lucky. My dad died at the young age of 41 due to a massive heart attack and he also suffered with emphysema for years. His two pack a day habit wasn't kind to him. My grandmother (his mother) made it to 73, had quadruple bypass surgery and a pacemaker. Another relative had to use that speaking device to talk due to throat surgery. If you ask my sister who is the president of the United States she will say George W. Bush. You see he was the President when she had a massive brain aneurysm which wiped out her short-term memory. I do feel guilty about thinking that it would have been better if she had died.

On the positive smoking front, my other grandmother (mothers side of the family) smoked for years, but quit a while ago. She is closer to 100 than 90. Genetics must play a part.

I used to smoke too, but quit very easily on 10/02/1980. Anyone can quit if they really want to. If you want to smoke I don't care and I do wish you luck. Some people do live a long time as a smoker.

The downside is that smokers are an easy target for sin taxes. Now they're coming after junk food. I wonder what will be next.

31 posted on 04/24/2013 5:15:40 PM PDT by I Drive Too Fast
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To: nickcarraway

i mind government both encouraging smoking by tobacco subsidies, and penalizing smokers and turning them into Goldstein (1984 ref) - playing both sides and somehow remaining free from criticism.

i don’t mind private businesses factoring in people’s stupid personal choices into health policies, etc.


32 posted on 04/24/2013 5:25:27 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: nickcarraway

Simply put, freedom is not possible if you are not allowed to make “bad” choices for yourself and suffer the consequences. Or in other words, freedom involves making choices and taking responsibility and when the choices/responsibility are taken away so is freedom.

The land of the free and home of the brave is now just a distant memory...


33 posted on 04/24/2013 5:46:06 PM PDT by DB
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To: elkfersupper

I’ve been smoking for over 60 years.

Turned 80 last September——but I’ll probably still die young because that’s what the “experts” say. :-)

.


34 posted on 04/24/2013 6:05:48 PM PDT by Mears
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To: Hot Tabasco
By the way, according to a recent anti-smoking ad I saw on TV, diabetes is now caused by smoking.

Well, it's caused by that and global warming.

35 posted on 04/24/2013 7:43:49 PM PDT by Graybeard58 (_.. ._. .. _. _._ __ ___ ._. . ___ ..._ ._ ._.. _ .. _. .)
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To: nickcarraway

Freedom IS NOT safety. True freedom is the ability to do anything with your body that you want, even if other people thinks it is not good to do.


36 posted on 04/25/2013 6:33:39 AM PDT by vannrox (The Preamble to the Bill of Rights - without it, our Bill of Rights is meaningless!)
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To: brooklyn dave
The problem is that too many people want the gov’t to be parent. Smoking, drinking porn, drugs, crappy food—the whole lot. Can’t people make up their minds not to do something

The problem is that too many people want the gov’t to be parent to OTHER people. Their attitude is: when I get to do what I want that's liberty, but when Joe gets to do what he wants that's "license".

37 posted on 04/25/2013 8:50:14 AM PDT by JustSayNoToNannies (I'll stick to facts and logic, and not follow into the gutter those who make disagreements personal.)
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