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Who Says New York Is Not Affordable? (Rich elsewhere is middle class in NYC)
New York Times ^ | 04/24/2013 | CATHERINE RAMPELL

Posted on 04/24/2013 6:29:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

One of the first things you learn when living in New York is that what qualifies as wealthy somewhere else seems barely middle-class here. On the Upper West Side, where I live, it’s hard not to feel as if Manhattan is impossibly expensive for young professionals.

The average nondoorman, one-bedroom apartment in the neighborhood rents for about $2,500 a month. Oatmeal-raisin cookies at Levain Bakery cost $4 each. A pair of sensible, unstylish walking flats from Harry’s Shoes can set you back $480. I suppose, by comparison, that the $198 chef’s menu at Jean-Georges doesn’t sound so ridiculous.

New Yorkers assume that we live in the most expensive city in the country, and cost-of-living indexes tend to back up that assertion. But those measures are built around the typical American’s shopping habits, which don’t really apply to the typical New Yorker — especially not college-educated New Yorkers with annual household incomes in the top income quintile, or around $100,000.

According to a recent study by Jessie Handbury, an economist at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, people in different income classes do indeed have markedly different purchasing habits. That may not be surprising, but once you account for these different preferences, it turns out that living in New York is actually a relative bargain for the wealthy.

While compiling her research, Handbury looked at Nielsen shopping data for 40,000 American households, across more than 500 food categories, with details on everything from organic labeling to salt content. Remarkably, she found that for households earning above $100,000, grocery costs are 20 percent lower in cities with a high per-capita income (like New York) than in cities with a low per-capita income (like New Orleans).

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: middleclass; newyork; rich

1 posted on 04/24/2013 6:29:57 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
In other words.............

Please stop moving away from New York, Please?, Please?
2 posted on 04/24/2013 6:33:10 AM PDT by John 3_19-21 ("as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.")
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To: SeekAndFind

Well it’s because these same “rich” morons who live on the Upper sides of Manhattan are overwhelmingly liberal and constantly vote for the politicians who will most likely tax the living sh*t out of them. How many times did Obama attend fund raisers on the upper west side of Manhattan when he was campaigning? Something like every single week. EVERY week, because I remember he would always come in on a Friday right at rush hour. I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever. Shoot yourself in the foot don’t go crying to the masses.


3 posted on 04/24/2013 6:33:55 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Someday our schools will teach the difference between "lose" and "loose")
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To: SeekAndFind

Geez.....this former WAPO now NYT puff-piece writer (Princeton Grad) has just found out that if you buy groceries instead of eating out, it costs less?

She’s somehow rationalized to herself that ‘living’ is a better deal there for the rich than for the poor? Do rich people carry a discount card or something? Maybe they buy groceries, apparently something you just found out about.

Maybe if you were better looking, you could cut your eating costs by luring unsuspecting males into buying you dinner every night like that other self-absorbed NY honey that wrote about it.


4 posted on 04/24/2013 6:37:36 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

The next mayor of New York will either be:

* A lesbian woman who “married” her lover, who uses the power of her office to attack business that cross her, or want to drive businesses out whose social policies don’t conform to hers ( see Chick-Fil-A near New York University ).

* A former Congressman who exposed himself on the internet and claimed that his account was hacked. He has an appropriate name for this act too...


5 posted on 04/24/2013 6:38:24 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: John 3_19-21

NYC is at its highest population level ever, and the high real estate prices confirm that it is in ever-growing demand.


6 posted on 04/24/2013 6:43:50 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: SeekAndFind
"A pair of sensible, unstylish walking flats from Harry’s Shoes can set you back $480."

Ummmmmm... I thought I did well to score a couple of pairs of my favorite "classic" sneakers from Shoebuy.com on sale at 25% off. ($41.16 per pair, Amazon wants $65.)

Fortunately, I'm not "rich" enough to spend $480 on a "pair of sensible, unstylish walking flats from Harry’s Shoes".

This reminds me of the Douglas Adams quote: “The last time anybody made a list of the top hundred character attributes of New Yorkers, common sense snuck in at number 79.”

7 posted on 04/24/2013 6:47:29 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: SeekAndFind

In a previous life I worked in Tokyo’s famous Ginza district, reported to be the most expensive place in the world. And, yet, I could walk out with my business colleagues to any number of decent quality food establishments for a decent lunch of 1,000 yen or less (about US $10). The same thing when I went on business to New York couldn’t be had for less than about $30. Go figure.


8 posted on 04/24/2013 7:01:21 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: SeekAndFind
On the Upper West Side, where I live...

Interesting article but the tone is insufferably smug.

9 posted on 04/24/2013 7:04:41 AM PDT by Menehune56 ("Let them hate so long as they fear" (Oderint Dum Metuant), Lucius Accius (170 BC - 86 BC))
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To: SeekAndFind

Most NYC residents live in tiny apartments, don’t own cars, don’t have children and have fairly high paying jobs. They spend most of their money save little. I doubt the author owns a car or has a family.

Enjoy your $4 cookies.


10 posted on 04/24/2013 7:08:41 AM PDT by detective
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To: Menehune56

Yes, I’m guessing this “economics reporter” is a recent grad from an elite school that turns out condescending nitwits by the crate, and that she is a trust fund baby supported by Daddy’s money. A surprising lot of NYC writers at the journals and fashion mags are not self-supporting.


11 posted on 04/24/2013 7:16:34 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: detective

Rush always said that the only reason to live in NYC is to work.


12 posted on 04/24/2013 7:17:15 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: detective

Concur.

When I lived there, it was a place where life was about work and fun, and by payday, everyone was in need of a check.


13 posted on 04/24/2013 7:22:28 AM PDT by wac3rd (Somewhere in Hell, Ted Kennedy snickers....)
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To: SeekAndFind
According to a recent study by Jessie Handbury, an economist at the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School, people in different income classes do indeed have markedly different purchasing habits.

You learn so much reading the New York Times.

14 posted on 04/24/2013 7:24:04 AM PDT by dead (I've got my eye out for Mullah Omar.)
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To: John 3_19-21

so a tiny appartment at 2x the rent.

a cookie at 5X the price.

bad shoes at 4X or more the price...

are supposed to make you want to live in a city that smells of urine, high taxes, in a state with confiscatory taxes and no respect individual civil rights?


15 posted on 04/24/2013 7:29:13 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: longtermmemmory
"Fall, though, is the worst. Few things are worse than fall in New York. Some of the things that live in the lower intestines of rats would disagree, but most of the things that live in the lower intestines of rats are highly disagreeable anyway, so their opinion can and should be discounted. When it's fall in New York, the air smells as if someone's been frying goats in it, and if you are keen to breathe, the best plan is to open a window and stick your head in a building."-Douglas Adams (again)
16 posted on 04/24/2013 7:37:55 AM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: SeekAndFind
There are a few nuggets of truth in this article, to wit:

But places like Houston are cheap — and staying cheap, even as they grow — because the local governments have realized their comparative advantage is in deregulation, not in fancy cookies.

Having lived in Houston for awhile in the 60s, I can tell the author that that is not something they realized--it's been that way for a hell of a long time. It was a bit chaotic insofar as zoning, but it was gangbusters for the economy.

17 posted on 04/24/2013 7:51:19 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: SeekAndFind

Look at the ranch houses that $100K income families occupy in Texas ... and the studio apartments that $100K income households occupy in NY ... and tell me that’s a bargain.

I could fit a NY apartment in my master bedroom.

SnakeDoc


18 posted on 04/24/2013 7:58:41 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("I've shot people I like more for less." -- Raylan Givens)
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To: SeekAndFind
It will probably be the dyke judging by the idiots in that city. They think Bloomberg is bad now? Wait till they get a psychotic who thinks she's a vampire, which is probably why they will vote for her in the first place.

I grew up in New York city and moved out last year. Best thing I ever did. It's a city run under despotism now. People want to be told what to do like little children, want their money constantly stolen by the city, the fine, live it up, but I ain't living like that.

19 posted on 04/24/2013 8:04:30 AM PDT by GrandJediMasterYoda (Someday our schools will teach the difference between "lose" and "loose")
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To: DeFault User

RE: Having lived in Houston for awhile in the 60s, I can tell the author that that is not something they realized—it’s been that way for a hell of a long time. It was a bit chaotic insofar as zoning, but it was gangbusters for the economy.

Is Houston conservative or liberal?

I know that Texas is a conservative red state but HOUSTON?

This is the city that voted REPEATEDLY for that idiot, tea party hater, Sheila Jackson Lee.


20 posted on 04/24/2013 8:12:26 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind
Obviously, not all of Houston is conservative, but here's a quote from Wikipedia:

Texas District 7 of the United States House of Representatives is a Congressional district that serves a small area of western Harris County. As of the 2000 census, District 7 comprises 651,620 people.

One of the wealthiest districts in the state, District 7 includes several upscale areas of western Houston, wealthy enclaves of Houston, one incorporated suburb, large areas of unincorporated suburbs, and the heavily Democratic Neartown area. The district was one of the state's first to elect a Republican to office and is now one of the most Republican districts in Texas. It has not elected a Democrat to office since 1967, before districts of equal population were required. Republican John Culberson has represented the district since 2001.

21 posted on 04/24/2013 8:22:23 AM PDT by DeFault User
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To: GrandJediMasterYoda

It must be rich people effete peer pressure that keeps anyone in NYC.

Wall street is a museum.

There is nothing in NYC that can not be done elsewhere, better and cheeper. The only “industry” in NYC is left wing propaganda and parades with character balloons.


22 posted on 04/24/2013 8:25:33 AM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: SeekAndFind
Like most urban areas, Houston has a hardcore "inner city" collection of minorities that reliably vote Democrat.

However, the suburbs are about as conservative as you can get, exceeded in this only by the outlying rural areas. Needless to say, it is in the suburbs where the most active growth is occurring.

23 posted on 04/24/2013 8:27:26 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: SeekAndFind

I hit NYC regularly and have become accustomed to “sticker shock”.In fact,during the red hot real estate market I considered buying an investment property on the Upper West Side of Manhattan.A 700 sq ft condo/coop went for at *least* $700K back then.Yikes!


24 posted on 04/24/2013 8:28:46 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Leno Was Right,They *Are* Undocumented Democrats!)
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To: longtermmemmory
The only “industry” in NYC is left wing propaganda and parades with character balloons

And show business. But I repeat what you said....

25 posted on 04/24/2013 8:29:14 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: SnakeDoctor
I could fit a NY apartment in my master bedroom.

You probably could.Don't know if you've ever been there but I must admit that there's a certain "excitement" to that city that I've never found anywhere else in my travels.Also,salaries are much higher there than elsewhere.Parking cars can make you $20/hr there.

26 posted on 04/24/2013 8:33:26 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Leno Was Right,They *Are* Undocumented Democrats!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I know where the lady is coming from. A decent pair of irrigation boots cost me upwards of twenty bucks at the feed store. I wonder if she’s considered buying her sensible walking flats at Big5 or WalMart?


27 posted on 04/24/2013 8:41:44 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: John 3_19-21

Her rent is more than my mortgage (almost 10 acres of land, a single family dwelling of 2,500 sq. feet, one story). I’ll take that, the lightning bugs, deer, feral hogs, and all sorts of bugs/birds over NYC every day, and twice on Sundays.


28 posted on 04/24/2013 9:01:41 AM PDT by ro_dreaming (G.K. Chesterton, “Christianity has not been tried and found wanting. It’s been found hard and lef)
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To: SeekAndFind

The article is too drole to get through,
I’ll just ad a widely known stat,

A double income no kids (DINK) married couple in Manhattan can make $158,000 a year in gross income and still qualify for housing subsidies.

and some Co-Ops in east Harlem now cost over $600/sqft , and they don’t accept potential buyers who makes less than $350k/yr.


29 posted on 04/24/2013 9:01:51 AM PDT by JerseyHighlander
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To: Billthedrill

RE: I wonder if she’s considered buying her sensible walking flats at Big5 or WalMart?

Good luck trying to find a Wal-Mart in NYC.

They wanted to open one near the city but the protests against it were so overwhelming (opposition to non-union labor) that they decided not to.

The nearest Wal-Mart is I think in Nassau County, Long Island ( but then, you’ll have to drive from the city ).


30 posted on 04/24/2013 9:06:51 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

It’s possible to get pretty much all the luxury goods available in NYC in other large cities in the US. Furthermore, with online shopping, many of these goods are available anywhere in the country without the cost of developing networks of distributors.


31 posted on 04/24/2013 9:16:13 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Cincinatus; SeekAndFind
Like most urban areas, Houston has a hardcore "inner city" collection of minorities that reliably vote Democrat.

However, the suburbs are about as conservative as you can get, exceeded in this only by the outlying rural areas. Needless to say, it is in the suburbs where the most active growth is occurring.

There's been lots of growth inside Loop 610. Lot's of high end condos have been built there in the last 20 years.

32 posted on 04/24/2013 9:21:08 AM PDT by Paleo Conservative (Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not really out to get you.)
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To: Paleo Conservative

True, but many areas such as West University Place and parts of Memorial, while inside the “loop,” are reliably suburban, both culturally and politically. Of course, you always have your limousine liberals, but energy is a big industry in Houston and those people tend to be more conservatively aligned than not.


33 posted on 04/24/2013 9:35:43 AM PDT by Cincinatus (Omnia relinquit servare Rempublicam)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, heck. They probably don’t have a lot of feed stores either. And I guess you wouldn’t need irrigation boots if you don’t have to set pipe. This NYC doesn’t sound like a very well-developed place.


34 posted on 04/24/2013 9:59:05 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: 9YearLurker
What are the demographics? Users vs. producers?

New york is the most-taxed state in the union and has been for years.

The have an enormous sub-middle class and have been hemorrhaging businesses/wealth for some time now.
35 posted on 04/24/2013 10:18:39 AM PDT by John 3_19-21 ("as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.")
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To: John 3_19-21

NY State is struggling, with Upstate burdened with real estate and other taxes that its residents and businesses can’t afford.

NYC is thriving, with if anything, more and more of a concentration of professionals and the upper class. The merely lower- to middle-middle class increasingly move out beyond the City’s core. Manhattan itself is incredibly expensive except to its Hispanic north and only the blocks closest to the projects in Spanish Harlem, etc..

It is in a way easier to be rich or poor in NYC than middle class, but it still draws in many young college graduates who are happy to live in a shoebox for the experience of being part of an incredibly vibrant city.


36 posted on 04/24/2013 11:00:20 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Sooth2222

He’s actually got it wrong. Fall and spring are NYC’s two best seasons. Lots of people, except for tourists, like to get away in the summer; and then some people, especially if they are old or mega-rich, head out for the winter too.


37 posted on 04/24/2013 11:02:50 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: longtermmemmory

That actually isn’t very true about NYC. It’s the best place to be for finance, fashion, a lot of the arts and entertainment, etc.. What’s the ax you’ve got to grind against the City?


38 posted on 04/24/2013 11:04:50 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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