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Rand Paul's presence-and-jobs amnesty -- WITHOUT E-Verify
NumbersUSA.com ^ | March 19, 2013 | Roy Beck

Posted on 04/19/2013 1:38:20 PM PDT by SoConPubbie

Whether or not you admire the bold individualistic leadership of Rand Paul (R-Ky.) on other issues, I know you will be disappointed and maybe even shocked by the immigration platform he outlined this morning before the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce.

KEY POINTS OF THE RAND PAUL AMNESTY •The 11-19 million illegal aliens would get to live permanently in the United States. •One year after passing the amnesty, illegal aliens can start getting work permits to compete directly in the legal job market with Americans. •New illegal aliens who are enticed by the amnesty will continue to have a relatively open access to U.S. jobs because Sen. Paul opposes mandatory E-Verify and other means to keep employers from hiring illegal aliens. •Sen. Paul will force American workers to compete with far more new legal immigrant workers in the future.

Nowhere in his long speech did Sen. Paul indicate any concern for the 20 million Americans who can't find a full-time job or for the taxpayers who have to support them in myriad ways while 26 million legal and illegal foreign-born workers hold U.S. jobs.

Instead, Sen. Paul emphasized the need for even more foreign workers as if there can never be a downside of too much immigration. He called for a:

. . . dialogue that shows that the GOP sees all immigrants as assets. . . . The Republican Party must embrace more legal immigration.

Nonetheless, Rand Paul outlined his amnesty with enough ambiguity to give some hope that Kentuckians can rescue him -- and the country -- from disastrous leadership on this issue.

WHAT ABOUT CITIZENSHIP FOR ILLEGAL ALIENS?

An AP story before the speech stated that Sen. Paul was endorsing a path to citizenship. This has spawned a lot of erroneous stories and tweets on the internet.

But Paul said nothing about citizenship in his speech. Rather, it looks like he is proposing a permanent-residency amnesty and work-permit amnesty but not a citizenship amnesty. That is more than enough amnesty to be truly harmful, but it is interesting that Paul is differing with Pres. Obama and the Senate Gang of Eight on the citizenship point.

WHEN DOES JOBS-AMNESTY KICK IN?

Sen. Paul leaves no doubt that he wants all the illegal aliens to be competing with Americans equally in the jobs market. But he proposes a phase-in system that he describes in very general terms.

You can read for yourself what his prepared text said:

The first part of my plan - border security - must be certified by Border Patrol and an Investigator General and then voted on by Congress to ensure it has been accomplished.

This is what I call, Trust but Verify.

With this in place, I believe conservatives will accept what needs to come next, an issue that must be addressed: what becomes of the 12 million undocumented workers in the United States?

My plan is very simple and will include work visas for those who are here, who are willing to come forward and work.

A bipartisan panel would determine number of visas per year.

There is a lot there that needs to be explored

OPPOSING E-VERIFY TO KEEP ILLEGAL ALIENS OUT OF JOBS

In one way, Rand Paul's plan is far more radical and pro-illegal-immigration than anything proposed by Pres. Obama or the Gang of Eight, both of whom are at least promising workplace verification to cut off the jobs magnet that has created the giant illegal-alien population in the first place.

My plan . . . will also not have mandatory E-Verify. I don't mind if there's E-Verify, maybe related to the tax code somehow, but I don't like the idea of making every business owner a policeman.

How radical is this idea of not having business owners responsible for avoiding hiring illegal aliens? Well, business responsibility was about the only thing that was given in return for the first (and supposedly last) amnesty in 1986. Sen. Paul today seemed to say that the only thing that should stand from the 1986 compromise was the amnesty itself.

BACK OF THE LINE? NOT AN AMNESTY?

Like Pres. Obama, Sen. Paul makes two highly questionable assertions about his plan:

My plan will not grant amnesty or move anyone to the front of the line.

In fact, his plan does both.

Rand Paul and Barack Obama claim they don't support amnesty because they define amnesty differently than most of us. They contend that if illegal aliens pay a fine it isn't amnesty to give them the lifelong residency and jobs they broke immigration laws to steal.

Of course, one of the last things citizens should do is allow their politicians to define away words that are inconvenient to them. Nobody who cares about the rule of law and an immigration system that serves the American people would call the Paul plan anything but an "amnesty," although it is not as generous of an amnesty as Pres. Obama and the Gang of Eight are proposing.

The "front of the line" line in some ways is even more maddening because it pretends that only future legal immigrants matter and that current unemployed Americans don't count at all.

Sen. Paul and Pres. Obama say that the illegal aliens should not get citizenship before the foreign citizens who are waiting in a backlog line to get immigration status. So, they each have provisions that delay how fast the illegal aliens get a green card that puts them on a path to citizenship.

But what about the unemployment lines for millions of Americans -- 20 million who can't find a full-time job?

Sen. Paul and Pres. Obama basically put the illegal aliens at the FRONT of the line.

Obama would give illegal aliens work permits almost immediately. Paul seems to say he would make them wait a year.

Why do I say the illegal aliens would be in the front of the line just because they get work permits? Because most of them already have jobs. Obama and Paul would be giving them the legal permits to continue holding the jobs that they have already taken from Americans.

Many otherwise intelligent people have the idea that illegal aliens take jobs that Americans don't want.

But fewer than 5% are in agriculture, for example. The rest of the illegal workers are in jobs in which the majority of workers are U.S. citizens. In other words, those are clearly jobs Americans WILL do and ARE doing.

There are more than twice as many less-educated Americans looking for jobs in construction, manufacturing and service where the 7 million illegal aliens already have jobs.

That apparently is just fine with Rand Paul and all the other supporters of amnesty.

Is it fine with the citizens of Kentucky?


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; nuther1bitesdust; paul; randpaul; soldout; stillamnesty
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1 posted on 04/19/2013 1:38:20 PM PDT by SoConPubbie
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To: SoConPubbie; VinL; ex-snook; sport; INVAR; ejonesie22; PieterCasparzen; Colonel_Flagg; Washi; ...
Rand Paul Doesn't like E-Verify Ping!

OPPOSING E-VERIFY TO KEEP ILLEGAL ALIENS OUT OF JOBS

In one way, Rand Paul's plan is far more radical and pro-illegal-immigration than anything proposed by Pres. Obama or the Gang of Eight, both of whom are at least promising workplace verification to cut off the jobs magnet that has created the giant illegal-alien population in the first place.
My plan . . . will also not have mandatory E-Verify. I don't mind if there's E-Verify, maybe related to the tax code somehow, but I don't like the idea of making every business owner a policeman.
How radical is this idea of not having business owners responsible for avoiding hiring illegal aliens? Well, business responsibility was about the only thing that was given in return for the first (and supposedly last) amnesty in 1986. Sen. Paul today seemed to say that the only thing that should stand from the 1986 compromise was the amnesty itself.
2 posted on 04/19/2013 1:40:27 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie
These recent terror events should slow down the Immigration Decree.
3 posted on 04/19/2013 1:40:50 PM PDT by Theoria
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To: SoConPubbie

POS Paul must have gotten a huge check from the POS Chamber of Commerce : )


4 posted on 04/19/2013 1:42:56 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker
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To: Theoria
These recent terror events should slow down the Immigration Decree.

Or these traitorous Pretend conservatives may just try to move it forward while our attention is elsewhere.

There deceit and constant lying about this issue shows they have no ethics.
5 posted on 04/19/2013 1:44:24 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: stephenjohnbanker
POS Paul must have gotten a huge check from the POS Chamber of Commerce : )

Could be, but he sure has done a 180 on this subject ever since he got the idea in his head he could be President.
6 posted on 04/19/2013 1:45:22 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

FURP!! NO AMNESTY!! Secure the borders!! Announce to the illegals already here to get out now because it’s only going to get rougher for them as we deny them welfare, foodstamps, healthcare, free lunch, and JOBS!! Penalize the employers arrest the perps who knowingly or repeated hire the illegals, esp those who pay them in cash or under the table. Do this and they will self-deport.


7 posted on 04/19/2013 1:51:48 PM PDT by Jim Robinson (Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God!!)
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8 posted on 04/19/2013 2:14:53 PM PDT by DJ MacWoW (My faith and politics cannot be separated)
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To: SoConPubbie

Because of Paul’s libertarian ideology I’m not surprised that he has become a key proponent of amnesty.

However, I don’t support E-Verify either. The idea of a government database with everyone in it alone should appall any lover of liberty. Add to that the fact that every American will be forced to get permission from the bureaucrats in charge of said database to earn their daily bread and you have something that resembles the Soviet Union more than the United States of America.

“Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”

— Benjamin Franklin


9 posted on 04/19/2013 2:17:28 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance

>> However, I don’t support E-Verify either. The idea of a government database with everyone in it alone should appall any lover of liberty. <<

The database already exists. The only thing E-Verify does is identify when someone is using stolen identity.

>> Add to that the fact that every American will be forced to get permission from the bureaucrats in charge of said database to earn their daily bread and you have something that resembles the Soviet Union more than the United States of America. <<

E-Verify does nothing that the IRS and the I-9 form don’t already do in this regard.


10 posted on 04/19/2013 2:23:00 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: SoConPubbie

“but I don’t like the idea of making every business owner a policeman.”

E-Verify is what keeps the employer from having to make a decision and become a judge or policeman, it is also what protects the employer from our legal system.


11 posted on 04/19/2013 2:23:22 PM PDT by duffee (NO poll tax, NO tax on firearms, ammunition or gun safes. NO gun free zones.)
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To: SoConPubbie

Rand paul is more of a Libertarian elevating a false freedom over protection of legal American residents whose jobs and tax dollars are being stolen by illegal invaders. Shame. We need mandatory everify with really punitive sanctions on immoral employers.

Speak up Americans or your country will belong to the invaders.


12 posted on 04/19/2013 2:28:23 PM PDT by amihow
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To: amihow

exactly. We all should contact our reps in Washington and speak out against amnesty.


13 posted on 04/19/2013 2:31:16 PM PDT by Dante3
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To: dangus

What exists now is not comparable to what will exist once they make it mandadory.

Get rid of all of it. We’re Americans, not subjects of a communist dictatorship.


14 posted on 04/19/2013 2:34:01 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: duffee; dangus; EternalVigilance; SoConPubbie

Shame on you guys for talking about enforcing the law !

Americans should leave all political discussions to the tax-exempt foundations that are the policy experts !

If the experts say we need to make non-citizens into citizens, and Ron Paul thinks that’s ok, then that should be ok for all citizens.

Rubio and Paul and other new American leaders are just trying to unify everyone who is within America’s borders, so everyone can harmonize their views with the new world vision of unity.

Once we have complete unification, voting will not be necessary, except for members of the new world party.

They will know what is best.

If you see anyone who you think is a non-citizen, go and help them become a citizen. This will be a start on what you need to do to make up for all of America’s bad actions in the past.

Power to the world force for good !

Do I need the /SARC ?


15 posted on 04/19/2013 2:38:19 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: Jim Robinson
FURP!! NO AMNESTY!! Secure the borders!! Announce to the illegals already here to get out now because it’s only going to get rougher for them as we deny them welfare, foodstamps, healthcare, free lunch, and JOBS!! Penalize the employers arrest the perps who knowingly or repeated hire the illegals, esp those who pay them in cash or under the table. Do this and they will self-deport.

Amen Jim!

It really is as simple as "Do the right thing!"
16 posted on 04/19/2013 2:49:35 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie
Thanks for the ping. It needs some fixing.

" The Republican Party must embrace more legal immigration cheap labor".

Rand just another in the long line of GOP losers who want to export America and expect recovery. FURP

17 posted on 04/19/2013 2:50:17 PM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: duffee
E-Verify is what keeps the employer from having to make a decision and become a judge or policeman, it is also what protects the employer from our legal system.

That's correct!
18 posted on 04/19/2013 2:50:23 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: dangus
E-Verify does nothing that the IRS and the I-9 form don’t already do in this regard.

Exactly!

The information already exists.
19 posted on 04/19/2013 2:51:21 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

“The information already exists” is not a logical justification for setting up a system whereby every American must get permission from the government to work, to earn their daily bread.

All supposedly necessitated because those we elect refuse to fulfill their primary duties.


20 posted on 04/19/2013 3:16:03 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: SoConPubbie

Notice that the core element of all the efforts by the Left now involve the establishment or improvement of databases on the citizenry. They want them for you to work, to receive medical care, for your retirement, to own a gun, to farm, and they’re even working to establish one to track every student, and everything about every student.

It’s wrong. It’s un-American. The only database they are constitutionally-empowered to possess is the census data every ten years, and that only for the purposes of appropriately dividing up the electoral votes.


21 posted on 04/19/2013 3:25:09 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: stephenjohnbanker

Rand Paul is not a POS. I do not agree with any type of amnesty and I disagree with Rand Paul on the immigration issue. That being said I agree with him on virtually all other fronts. What we need to do is get him to see the light and moderate his position on this one issue.


22 posted on 04/19/2013 3:53:44 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: SoConPubbie

I guess one way to get rid of the problem is to annex Mexico and Canada.

:>)


23 posted on 04/19/2013 4:39:35 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: SoConPubbie
Paul doesn't want the employers to be policemen yet I want employers to be held accountable for improperly hiring illegal aliens ~ maybe even put the death penalty behind that requirement.

Obviously these are irreconcilable positions ~

24 posted on 04/19/2013 4:41:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: EternalVigilance

“The information already exists” is not a logical justification for setting up a system whereby every American must get permission from the government to work, to earn their daily bread.”

Exactly. I’m self-employed, and every few months, I find it enraging that I have to sign yet another declaration that I’m a citizen and present my passport to another private citizen who has no official government function whatsoever.

“All supposedly necessitated because those we elect refuse to fulfill their primary duties.”

Right, and even in the absence of the government doing the job it’s empowered and paid to do, it’s still not on me to determine someone’s legal status. That’s forcing Americans to perform law enforcement functions. How is that even Constitutional?


25 posted on 04/19/2013 5:07:41 PM PDT by Blue Ink
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To: xzins
I guess one way to get rid of the problem is to annex Mexico and Canada.

I know you're joking, but, that is certainly one way to solve the problem. If we did, we would have a very small border to defend.

Additionally, we'd pick up some natural resources, including lots of oil.
26 posted on 04/19/2013 5:15:30 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

Rand could have been an inspiration, instead he’s just going to be another sell out republican. Has Norquist got pictures of all these guys with TJ donkeys or what??


27 posted on 04/19/2013 5:17:45 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: EternalVigilance
However, I don’t support E-Verify either. The idea of a government database with everyone in it alone should appall any lover of liberty. Add to that the fact that every American will be forced to get permission from the bureaucrats in charge of said database to earn their daily bread and you have something that resembles the Soviet Union more than the United States of America.

EV,

I agree, that in a perfect world, your position is correct and logical. However, we do not live in a perfect world.

Even the founders, when it came to slavery, knew it was wrong, but knew they could not resolve the issue initially, but that it would have to be left to future generations to be solved.

There is only two ways the problem of Illegal Aliens can be solved:

1. Remove them forcibly like Operation Wetback and this will never happen because there is not enough political willpower to get it done.
2. Setup an environment where illegals can't work and they can't get social services. This is where e-Verify comes in unless you know of some other method of identifying them.

Furthermore, if we take your idea to it's logical conclusion we would need to get rid of all Driver's Licenses and Social Security.

Neither of those is going to happen either, though I would really like to end SS and I really don't care to have a Driver's License.
28 posted on 04/19/2013 5:21:00 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: muawiyah
Paul doesn't want the employers to be policemen yet I want employers to be held accountable for improperly hiring illegal aliens ~ maybe even put the death penalty behind that requirement.

Paul wants a system where there is NO accountability for either the Employers who knowingly have hired Illegals, for the Illegals themselves, or even states that have enabled this scenario.

As such, he is no better than a liberal.
29 posted on 04/19/2013 5:22:44 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

Actually, this makes Paul a Mexican coyote ~ and labor broker!


30 posted on 04/19/2013 5:26:17 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SoConPubbie

Seems Paul does not go for policeman chores like alcohol checks for drunks and young. Cigarettes for the young. Rand can’t distinguish between a good idea and a bad one for government. Juvenile.


31 posted on 04/19/2013 5:33:06 PM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
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To: SoConPubbie

President Polk should have kept Mexico when he won it.


32 posted on 04/19/2013 5:35:46 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! True supporters of our troops pray for their victory!)
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To: SoConPubbie
your position is correct and logical

Thanks.

E-Verify is anti-American and unconstitutional to the nth degree. If permission from government is required to earn our daily bread, this free republic is dead.

33 posted on 04/19/2013 5:43:36 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance

“If permission from government is required to earn our daily bread, this free republic is dead. “

That happened with social security.


34 posted on 04/19/2013 5:55:10 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: AuntB

SS is unconstitutional as well. But, putting that aside for a moment, this is a giant step beyond SS. You have to get permission from government in order to work and earn your daily bread.

There’s scripture that speaks of such a thing.


35 posted on 04/19/2013 6:05:47 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance

I understand your point. And if the borders were secured properly, we wouldn’t even need to consider it.


36 posted on 04/19/2013 6:15:12 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: SoConPubbie

Ron Paul for president. Woo! Wooo!


37 posted on 04/19/2013 6:16:25 PM PDT by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: EternalVigilance
However, I don’t support E-Verify either. The idea of a government database with everyone in it alone should appall any lover of liberty.

You are kidding right? Ever heard of Social Security numbers, ObamaCare, or driving licenses, or gun permits, or background checks?

38 posted on 04/19/2013 6:19:42 PM PDT by itsahoot (It is not so much that history repeats, but that human nature does not change.)
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To: itsahoot
You are kidding right? Ever heard of Social Security numbers, ObamaCare, or driving licenses, or gun permits, or background checks?

Driver's licenses are not federal.

Putting that one aside, you support ObamaCare, and gun permits, and background checks, and the centerpiece of Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal?

Please explain how any of those things are in any way conservative.

Please point me to the constitutional grant of authority for them to determine whether or not you can earn your daily bread.

39 posted on 04/19/2013 6:25:51 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: All

Notice that the core element of all the efforts by the Left now involve the establishment of, or improvement of, databases on the citizenry. They want them for you to work, to receive medical care, for your retirement, to own a gun, to farm, and they’re even working to establish one to track every student, and everything about every student, from the cradle onward.

It’s wrong. It’s un-American. The only database they are constitutionally-empowered to possess is the census data every ten years, and that only for the purposes of appropriately dividing up the electoral votes and setting the congressional districts.


40 posted on 04/19/2013 6:46:08 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance

>> Notice that the core element of all the efforts by the Left now involve the establishment or improvement of databases on the citizenry. <<

Except there is no new database. Pay attention.

>> They want them for you to work, <<

Your problem appears to be with Ronald Reagan’s I-9 program. Tell you what, when you succeed in getting rid of social security, welfare, medicare, income tax, earned income credits, etc., the E-Verify program probably will be much less necessary. In the meanwhile, we can quit shooting ourselves in the head in spite of our Democrat opponents.


41 posted on 04/19/2013 7:26:17 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: Blue Ink

>> Exactly. I’m self-employed, and every few months, I find it enraging that I have to sign yet another declaration that I’m a citizen and present my passport to another private citizen who has no official government function whatsoever. <<

If you ever do, it has nothing to do with E-Verify.

>> Right, and even in the absence of the government doing the job it’s empowered and paid to do, it’s still not on me to determine someone’s legal status. That’s forcing Americans to perform law enforcement functions. How is that even Constitutional? <<

You mean like filing W-2s, I-9s, and all those other functions?


42 posted on 04/19/2013 7:29:33 PM PDT by dangus (Poverty cannot be eradicated as long as the poor remain dependent on the state - Pope Francis)
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To: dangus

I’m sorry you can’t see the difference between a voluntary and a mandatory use of this database to determine whether or not someone can earn their daily bread.

Of course, anyone with a brain has known all along that their intent in establishing the voluntary database was to turn it into a mandatory one.

The answer when the statist camel’s nose is in the tent is not to resign yourself to living with the camel, the answer is to cut off the camel’s nose.

An America in which a citizen has to get permission from the government to work is no longer America. It’s the Soviet Union.


43 posted on 04/19/2013 7:45:50 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance
E-Verify is anti-American and unconstitutional to the nth degree. If permission from government is required to earn our daily bread, this free republic is dead.

Don Quixote comes to mind.
44 posted on 04/19/2013 8:14:16 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

No. Don Quixote fought imaginary monsters. The drive for government to possess thorough databases of information on every aspect of your life is quite real. In fact, you will find such an overriding desire on the part of the statists at the core of almost every important policy question right now. Education. Work. Commerce. Healthcare. Guns. You name it.


45 posted on 04/19/2013 8:23:25 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: SoConPubbie

Can you point me to that part of the Constitution which grants to the general government the power to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down to whether or not you are qualified to earn your daily sustenance?


46 posted on 04/19/2013 8:27:04 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance
Can you point me to that part of the Constitution which grants to the general government the power to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down to whether or not you are qualified to earn your daily sustenance?

So tell me how you are going to convince the American public to deport the 40 million illegals in this country.

How are you going to accomplish this lofty goal given current politics?

Or tell me your vision of the future, that is realistic, that this scenario can be accomplished in.
47 posted on 04/19/2013 8:38:31 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

So, the answer to my question is “no,” right?

The answer to your question is that the first step for accomplishing this is to convince conservatives to return to the plumb line of principle and to then think through the consequences of the policies they support. So that we can then argue from a firm basis and put forward a strong united front.

It’s amazing how much power there is in having the truth and right on your side.


48 posted on 04/19/2013 8:53:08 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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To: EternalVigilance
The answer to your question is that the first step for accomplishing this is to convince conservatives to return to the plumb line of principle and to then think through the consequences of the policies they support. So that we can then argue from a firm basis and put forward a strong united front.

It’s amazing how much power there is in having the truth and right on your side.


Good luck with that EV.


49 posted on 04/19/2013 8:55:10 PM PDT by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency)
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To: SoConPubbie

In God we trust, not luck.


50 posted on 04/19/2013 8:55:52 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (If the oath-breaking politicians won't fear God, we can at least make them fear We the People.)
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