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This Time Itís Different? (Immigration)
National Review ^ | 4/19/2013

Posted on 04/19/2013 3:46:19 AM PDT by markomalley

The Gang of Eight’s “comprehensive” immigration-reform bill contains a number of superficially attractive security mandates: It would require the federal government to have 100 percent “situational awareness” of the border, to catch 90 percent of illegal border-crossers in high-traffic areas, to establish a tracking system to address the problem of those who enter the country illegally but overstay their visas, etc. So attractive are those goals that we have supported them in the past, on the many occasions upon which the government has promised to achieve them. Disappointingly, Washington keeps failing to deliver on its promises. The unspoken premise of the Gang of Eight bill is: This time it’s different. We are skeptical that this is so. And regardless, there is a great deal in this package that is deeply objectionable.

Unfortunately, this is the same amnesty-first/enforcement-later model that has burned us before. Senator Marco Rubio’s admirers like to compare him to Ronald Reagan, and in this case he resembles the 40th president in putting too much faith in the willingness of Washington to deliver border security in the face of opposition from ethnic-solidarity politics and the cheap-labor lobby.

Congress mandated the creation of a visa-tracking system, for instance, in 1996. Since then, Congress has on multiple occasions reiterated its demand that the executive branch comply with the law, and the executive branch has on each occasion failed to do so: Bill Clinton’s administration failed to do so, George W. Bush’s administration failed to do so, and Barack Obama’s administration thus far has failed to do so. The system the bill would mandate is even weaker than the system already mandated: It would apply at airports and seaports, but not for land crossings. If we are being asked to believe that this requirement will inspire President Obama to suddenly get religion on the subject of illegal immigration, we say that the evidence is against such a proposition, and that hoping that whoever follows him will do so is simply an act of faith — and though prayer availeth much, it is insufficient grounds for national-security policy.

Consider the standards already at work: Under President Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) initiative, some illegals are given a discretionary grant of relief from deportation after what is supposed to be a rigorous screening process to weed out criminals and national-security threats. But “criminals” has a rather loose definition — you can have a couple of convictions and remain golden in the eyes of Obama’s DHS, so long as you pled any felony charges down to misdemeanors — the result of which is a 99.5 percent approval rate. Presumably, we can expect such “rigorous” standards to prevail throughout this process.

There are other, better provisions. We very strongly support mandating the use of E-Verify or a similar system nationwide in order to ensure that businesses hire only those workers who are legally eligible to be employed in the United States. While there are some procedural challenges associated with creating an effective national E-Verify system, doing so would be the easiest — and probably most effective — way of policing those who enter the United States illegally for economic purposes. (Casual day labor would remain a draw.) Mandating E-Verify is so obvious and sensible a move that it should have been done years ago in a standalone piece of legislation, but that bill was rejected — and those who opposed it, including business interests and farm-state Republicans, will have similar incentives to water down enforcement provisions in any compromise bill that passes Congress. There is nothing in this bill’s compliance-and-sanctions provisions that suggests enforcement would prevail over those who would prefer a looser system.

The full implementation of the three main security measures — national E-Verify, the visa-tracking system, and the 100/90 border-control standard — would have to be ratified before the second stage of the program, a “path to citizenship” for former illegals, would be implemented. If those goals were not met within five years, then a panel of border-state governors and attorneys general would inherit the responsibility and authority for seeing to it that they were met thereafter. Our admiration for the border-state leadership is mixed — Governor Rick Perry and Attorney General Greg Abbott are our cup of tea, Jerry Brown and Kamala Harris less so — but at any rate, it is far from clear that the leadership of four states should be entrusted with overseeing a policy that affects the entire country; Virginia and Nevada do not border Mexico, but they have a stake in the illegal-immigration battle, too. Essentially, this bill would give us immediate amnesty in exchange for a DHS plan backed by a border-state panel’s plan to have a plan.

Unhappily, the foregoing observations are among the best things that can be said about this bill. It not only would offer amnesty to the 11 million or so illegals currently in the country but also would readmit many of those who have been deported. The argument for normalizing the status of illegals already resident in the United States has in the main proceeded from the fact that they are already resident in the United States — offering legal status for those who are not living in the United States is indefensible.

Further, the bill would open up the floodgates for unskilled laborers. Many of those unskilled laborers would be brought in under guest-worker programs, which are in and of themselves objectionable. They amount to nothing more than the creation of a caste of second-class workers for the benefit of certain business interests. Congress should be establishing standards oriented toward attracting highly skilled, highly educated workers; this bill would move in the opposite direction, though it would liberalize visa rules for some skilled workers.


TOPICS: Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: aliens; amnesty; carteldeocho; groversamnesty; saynotoamnesty

1 posted on 04/19/2013 3:46:19 AM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

I will never understand how rewarding people for breaking the law is a good thing. Their first step on American soil is breaking the law. If they are willing to do that, what other laws are they willing to break?


2 posted on 04/19/2013 3:52:41 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: markomalley
The Gang of Eight’s Ocho's “comprehensive” immigration-reform amnesty bill ...

Fixed the lead sentence in your article.

3 posted on 04/19/2013 4:02:12 AM PDT by Zakeet (If idiots could fly, Washington would be an airport)
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To: markomalley

Everyone needs to call their clowns in DC and tell them this immigration bill is DOA.

Eleven plus years after 9/11 and our border is still not secure.

DC needs to know we’ve had it with them.


4 posted on 04/19/2013 4:11:22 AM PDT by exit82 ("The Taliban is on the inside of the building" E. Nordstrom 10-10-12)
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To: markomalley
Whatever respect I had for Rubio is gone. He has shown us he is just another lying politician, more interested in politics than the welfare of this country.
5 posted on 04/19/2013 4:24:44 AM PDT by Mister Da (The mark of a wise man is not what he knows, but what he knows he doesn't know!)
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To: markomalley

Amnesty is not good, and Rush is absolutely right. Rubio is deafer than Rush. Ears to hear and not hearing a word he said in the interview.

Which only reinforces what we should all know. There is no perfection in a world of humans with human nature. Ronnie wasn’t perfect either.

...and any legislation with the title comprehensive, is suspect right out of the gate. There is no such thing. Law is no substitute for common sense, and a moral people, two things in very short supply.


6 posted on 04/19/2013 4:28:56 AM PDT by wita
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To: markomalley
"This Time It’s Different?"

Looks like the same-old same-old to me. Different liar, maybe, but the same old lies...

  "The [immigration] bill will not flood our cities with immigrants. It
  will not upset the ethnic mix of our society. It will not relax the
  standards of admission. It will not cause American workers to lose
  their jobs."
                        - Ted Kennedy, 1965

  "This amnesty will give citizenship to only 1.1 to 1.3 million illegal
  aliens.  We will secure the borders henceforth.  We will never again
  bring forward another amnesty bill like this."
                        - Ted Kennedy, 1986

  "Now it is time for action. 2007 is the year we must fix our broken
  system."
                        - Ted Kennedy, 2007 

7 posted on 04/19/2013 4:39:00 AM PDT by Peet (Come back with a warrant.)
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To: markomalley

No promises, they promised we would have a fence by now. Promises from these people are lies. How many times will the STUPID American Public continue to believe this crap?


8 posted on 04/19/2013 4:50:49 AM PDT by ThePatriotsFlag ( EVERY DIME Obama Spends is given to him by the Republicans in the House.)
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To: Peet

Ted, I hope your cojones are roasting in that special room they have assigned to you.


9 posted on 04/19/2013 4:58:35 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: markomalley
Marco Rubio stated on the M. Levin radio show; the federal government has more than five (5) years to secure the border! How mnay more illegal (criminal) aliens will there be in another five years? Also, the immigration bill allows those any illegal alien who was deported to come back, along with their relatives, associates, children, and others who are now breaking into the country!

If, and that is a big IF, the two terrorist in the Boston bombing broke into this country and came here illegally via the Mexico border, that will be the end to any push for immigration amnesty!

10 posted on 04/19/2013 5:01:12 AM PDT by PotatoChop (Respect is earned, not demanded by this out of control socialist government!)
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To: markomalley

Yeah right how did these Chechean Islamic terrorist get into the country. I hope this kills the bill


11 posted on 04/19/2013 5:11:43 AM PDT by tom paine 2
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To: markomalley; Tennessee Nana; Liz; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; ...
RE :”Further, the bill would open up the floodgates for unskilled laborers. Many of those unskilled laborers would be brought in under guest-worker programs, which are in and of themselves objectionable. They amount to nothing more than the creation of a caste of second-class workers for the benefit of certain business interests. Congress should be establishing standards oriented toward attracting highly skilled, highly educated workers; this bill would move in the opposite direction, though it would liberalize visa rules for some skilled workers.”

I know many businesses want this and in return Dems want the illegals voting so both are making a deal with the devil.
Except we lose in both cases, and when they do eventually vote they will vote against those same businesses who wanted that labor competition.

Try this : 1) pay more for those jobs, 2) cut off welfare and SS disability, and 3) hire US legal workers.

12 posted on 04/19/2013 5:21:47 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs; AuntB

13 posted on 04/19/2013 5:50:38 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Travis McGee

Rubio says at least 10 years wait and the wait will be soooo long for US citizenship that the illegals who apply here will wish they left the country and got on the line in whatever country they were born in. His plan will make them sorry they came here.

And they will get zero benefits for those long 10 to 15 years.

And Shumer and Durbin and Obama agree with all this..

Lets see the bill because this sounds like made up crap.


14 posted on 04/19/2013 5:55:26 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs

2 immigrants carried out the Boston bombings, give them Rubiophones I guess.

ack


15 posted on 04/19/2013 5:57:20 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: markomalley

Why not come up with a 1500 page bill to get rid of all of them? Crazy I know.


16 posted on 04/19/2013 5:57:40 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: wita

I noticed that Rubio is learning the fine art of not directly answering questions and then referencing his prepared talking points.

He will go far in the Democrat party.


17 posted on 04/19/2013 5:59:53 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds.)
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To: GeronL
RE :”2 immigrants carried out the Boston bombings, give them Rubiophones I guess”

This is why we need ‘immigration reform’ to fix ‘our broken system’

Under Rubio’s plan the Rubio background checks would have stopped them after they applied for amnesty and they paid that big fine.

What could go wrong w that ?

18 posted on 04/19/2013 6:03:52 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: markomalley

Why are we talking about legalizing people who have shown no respect for our country and its laws? Doesn’t the Boston attack illustrate we have more than enough of these anti-Americans living here already?


19 posted on 04/19/2013 6:10:30 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: sickoflibs

lol.

They will get the handouts/benefits and the enforcement side will never happen. How many times will people fall for this?


20 posted on 04/19/2013 6:14:37 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: sickoflibs; markomalley; Tennessee Nana; Liz; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker; DoughtyOne; AuntB

Another way this helps Obama and the commies is: It attracts another wave of “undocumented immigrants” who bring their poverty, medical problems, and “need for education” here. After the social workers discover that this new wave is below the poverty line, sick, and uneducated, that creates an excuse for more government “help” as well as future amnesties.

Plus, perpetual importation of 3rd world diseases makes the USA average lifespan decrease, thus “proving” that the European socialist way is best. The USA always loses when compared to the lifespan of countries like Japan, with very strict immigration, but the reasons the “experts” provide never include open borders.


21 posted on 04/19/2013 6:23:00 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: GeronL
RE :”They will get the handouts/benefits and the enforcement side will never happen. How many times will people fall for this?”

I need to repeat this in response :

Rubio says at least 10 years wait and the wait will be soooo long for US citizenship that the illegals who apply here will wish they left the country and got on the line in whatever country they were born in. His plan will make them sorry they came here.

And they will get zero benefits for those long 10 to 15 years.

And Shumer and Durbin and Obama agree with all this..

Rubio is such a tough negotiator he has them eating out of his hand.....(alarm bells ringing)...

22 posted on 04/19/2013 6:24:59 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: sickoflibs

There will be no wait.

Will they all do prison time for breaking the law?

driving without license/insurance? working illegally? ID theft? using false documents?

If not, will US citizens also get a pass for these same crimes?


23 posted on 04/19/2013 6:27:06 AM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

The GOP deserves a lot of blame for illegal immigration by turning a blind eye to this problem due to the business community. As long as they have bribed the GOP in the form of campaign contributions, they could care less.


24 posted on 04/19/2013 6:27:07 AM PDT by eekitsagreek
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To: GeronL; Liz
RE :”Will they all do prison time for breaking the law?
driving without license/insurance? working illegally? ID theft? using false documents?
If not, will US citizens also get a pass for these same crimes?”

Liz compiled a great list of these.

But Rubio looks like such a nice guy....

25 posted on 04/19/2013 6:32:45 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; markomalley; Tennessee Nana; Liz; TADSLOS; stephenjohnbanker
RE :”After the social workers discover that this new wave is below the poverty line, sick, and uneducated, that creates an excuse for more government “help” as well as future amnesties”

Rubio says they get zero benefits for the 10 to 15 years not even Obama-care(???how does that even work???) and Schumer and Durbin and Obama all agree with that.

Tough negotiator or what? so why is Schumer smiling so much?

26 posted on 04/19/2013 6:37:47 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: eekitsagreek
The GOP deserves a lot of blame for illegal immigration by turning a blind eye to this problem due to the business community. As long as they have bribed the GOP in the form of campaign contributions, they could care less.


27 posted on 04/19/2013 6:57:50 AM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs; AuntB; Tennessee Nana; Grampa Dave; TADSLOS
Rubio "says" there'll be at least a 10 year wait BUT the wait for US citizenship will be s-o-o-o long that illegals who apply will wish they had NEVER left their comfy Third World homelands. SUMMING UP Rubio's plan will make them sorry they came here. Plus they will get zero benefits for those l-o-n-g 10-15 years. Plus Schumer and Durbin and Obama agree with all this.....b/c Rubio is such a tough negotiator, he has them eating out of his hand.....(alarm bells ringing)...

Oh, please, don't be so unreasonable (/snix).

(Sniffle) don't you know that AT ALL TIMES, the Gang of Eight was guided by the founding principles----government of the people, by the people, and for the people (sob).

The "people"---that's us.

28 posted on 04/19/2013 6:58:59 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz

:)


29 posted on 04/19/2013 7:00:49 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Liz
RE :”(Sniffle) don't you know that AT ALL TIMES, the Gang of Eight was guided by the founding principles——government of the people, by the people, and for the people (sob).
The “people”-—that's us. “

Could be partially right....its for SOME people OK but I dont see how its you and me....what do we get (good) out of it?

30 posted on 04/19/2013 7:38:27 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: Zakeet; markomalley; All

FYI

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3009500/posts?page=1#1
Gang of 8 brings Norquist, Trumka together

This amnesty profits two people...K st. Lobbyists and Unions!


31 posted on 04/19/2013 7:58:09 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: markomalley
That's ALL that National Review finds wrong with this bill?

That's all?

How about the utterly bogus claim of welfare denial to the Amnesty immigrants?

Does anyone believe that will happen?

Starving immigrants will be denied Food Stamps?

Republicans will campaign on denying them food if they lose their low paying jobs?

And sick immigrants who lose their low paying jobs will be denied Medicaid or ObamaCare?

Republicans are going to campaign in favor of that?

No mention by NR that I saw that Amnesty immigrants in the USA will be allowed to import their spouse and minor children.

The 11 million will instantly become 20 million.

Will Republicans demand that the new immigrants have no babies on USA soil?

That instantly gives that family a whole new set of rights since the baby is a USA citizen, because of a deranged interpretation of the 14th Amendment.

Did I mention that no Republican candidate for president has ever received more than 40% of the Hispanic vote?

Did I mention that new immigrant citizens vote 80% for the Democrat Party?

Did I mention that employers have a $3,000 per year incentive to hire Amnesty immigrants instead of USA citizens, because, according to the bill, they are not eligible for ObamaCare?

And Marco Rubio, the “Savior of the Republican Party,” wrote this bill?

32 posted on 04/19/2013 8:00:37 AM PDT by zeestephen
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To: PotatoChop

“If, and that is a big IF, the two terrorist in the Boston bombing broke into this country and came here illegally via the Mexico border, that will be the end to any push for immigration amnesty! “

It’s worse than that. They are here on VISAS, like this amnesty will issue MILLIONS of. The feds don’t vet anyone now and they won’t with another amnesty. Once they lost 100,000 applications, so they just issued them visas anyway.

CUTLER: But it`s not even just the border. Look, last year U.S. CIS, the division of DHS that gives out citizenship and immigration benefits, claimed that they lost — are you ready for this — 111,000 immigration files and then went ahead and naturalized 30,000 aliens without their files.[snip]
http://towncriernews.blogspot.com/search?q=lost+files

AND THAT is how we wind up with terrorists!


33 posted on 04/19/2013 8:02:26 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Travis McGee

Exactly Travis! YOU nailed it ...again!

Borrowing that one!


34 posted on 04/19/2013 8:06:41 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: markomalley; 1_Inch_Group; 2sheep; 2Trievers; 3AngelaD; 3pools; 3rdcanyon; 4Freedom; 4ourprogeny; ..
Ping!

Click the keyword Aliens to see more illegal alien, border security, and other related threads.

35 posted on 04/19/2013 8:24:39 AM PDT by HiJinx ("All it takes for evil to win...")
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To: markomalley
What is it about immigration "reform" that makes advocates so jolly?

Washington, D.C. May 27, 2007. An immigration "reform" deal has been drafted and the gang of guffawing goofballs gather to glorify their guile. How easy it is to put one over on the masses. They were wrong.

Today another gang of guffawing goofballs

.. Let's listen in.

"The public believes us! That this is not amnesty and that we will enforce E-Verify and border security.. bwahaha!"

36 posted on 04/19/2013 10:03:09 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

“What is it about immigration “reform” that makes advocates so jolly? “

Follow the $$$.

Their big donors like Microsoft & the unions give these political hacks LOTS of money. The top 1% benefit from amnesty, no one else.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/3009500/posts?page=36#36


37 posted on 04/19/2013 10:11:31 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: sickoflibs

” I know many businesses want this and in return Dems want the illegals voting so both are making a deal with the devil.”

And America is screwed .


38 posted on 04/19/2013 10:24:04 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker
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To: Liz

: )


39 posted on 04/19/2013 10:25:37 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker
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To: markomalley

How are they supposed to confirm what percentage of crossers they catch? By the very nature of the crime they don’t know how many they don’t catch, yeah they might see a few and miss them, but there’s no way to know how many they didn’t even see. Provisions like that are pure feel good measures.


40 posted on 04/19/2013 10:28:40 AM PDT by discostu (Not just another moon faced assassin of joy.)
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To: discostu
How are they supposed to confirm what percentage of crossers they catch?

They find a way to make the numbers look good for them, e. g. catch and release = "deportation."

41 posted on 04/19/2013 1:07:47 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: AuntB

You’re right. There are big advantages and money for political parties and businesses to ignore U.S. citizens (except to get them to serve in the armed services) and encourage foreigners to get here by any means necessary.


42 posted on 04/19/2013 2:49:23 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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