Skip to comments.San Francisco’s Black Talon Ban Comes a Little Too Late (Ammo Discontinued 20 Years Ago)
Posted on 04/16/2013 7:03:10 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
San Franciscos Black Talon Ban Comes a Little Too Late
In the massive surge to draft new gun control legislation across the nation, you could be forgiven for not noticing the local San Francisco push to ban hollowpoint ammo.
Specifically, the new law bans Winchester Black Talons. This is interesting if for only the fact that Winchester hasnt made Black Talon ammunition for two decades.
Why ban the sale of practically nonexistent ammo? Californias history of shooting sprees is at the heart of the issue. Following the 101 California Street shooting, where Gian Luigi Ferri used a blend of ammo, notably including Black Talons, along with a pair of modified TEC-9s to shoot up the wrong office, killing eight people and injuring six others before committing suicide.
And that is why the legislation specifically targets one brand of ammo. It also bans the sale of any ammo that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.
While that could potentially encapsulate modern hollowpoint ammo, its not likely to. Although Black Talons were the predecessors to Winchesters current lines of expanding ammo, including Ranger-T and PDX1 hollowpoints, Winchesters recent designs are not identical in performance by any indication.
The fact of the matter is that bullet design has continued to develop and improve, yielding new products that perform much differently that is to say, better than the old Black Talons. And anything not Black Talon is on the OK list, unless its for departmental use.
The bill goes on to ban the commercial sale of ammo thats labeled for law enforcement only, unless you are indeed in uniform. This is where things get a lot more vague (.pdf).
Ammunition designated by its manufacturer for purchase by law enforcement or military agencies only, unless other ammunition is available to the general public that has physical properties resulting in ballistics performance identical to such ammunition.
This is awkward because youd be hard-pressed to find two cartridges from the same box that have identical ballistics performance. And identical how? Compared to factory numbers? Compared to the performance of the cartridges operating in your firearm? And whats being measured? Velocity? Penetration in ballistics gelatin? Retained weight?
While the ordnance doesnt codify the definition of identical performance, it does charge the city with creating a list of prohibited ammo types. This doesnt mean that ammo not on the list is safe to own, which is why the NRA is currently filing suit against the city.
[The] NRA sought more specific information from SFPD, but it wasnt provided in the SFPDs letter. For example, NRA experts inquired about the testing procedures that would be performed to determine whether ballistics performances are identical in all respects. And NRA sought detailed information regarding the ballistics performance for Black Talon ammunition to allow the City to establish a baseline for comparison with other ammunition. The SFPD didnt produce this information, because it most likely hasnt (and wont) take these steps. And if the SFPD does decide to engage in such testing procedures, it is a virtual certainty that ammunition performance will not be ballistically identical to Black Talons in all respects.
The NRA is already suing San Francisco over the unconstitutionality of its existing ban on the sale of hollow-point ammunition and its requirement that all handguns be kept locked up in the home when not being carried. That case, Jackson v. City and County of San Francisco, is currently before the Ninth Circuit and seeks to resolve many of the issues left unanswered by the Supreme Court in Heller v. District of Columbia.
In fact their We dont know whats illegal ammo until we see it policy has already been singled out as potentially unconstitutionally vague. Penalties for possession of to-be-determined banned ammo can be up to $1,000 and six months in prison.
One things for certain: if youre in San Francisco, or just passing through it, you had better cycle out your 20-year old self-defense loads for something less illegal.
For that matter, if you still have any Black Talons, you should put them in a box with your Members Only jacket and gasoline jeans and dispose of them safely. Its time to let them go.
Black Talons are old technology. There are better alternatives.
I still have a box.
The reason why this happened?
They wrote a “kitchen sink” law 20 years ago and have been trying to get it or any part of it passed every year since.
I’d bet that while parts of ObamaCare were written the year it passed, the core of it dates back to before he was even born with additions (seldom if ever deletions) made every year since.
I hear the kids are pirating floppy discs of BASIC on their Commodore 64’s, too.
Better get a handle on it now, San Franfreakshow.
Was there a 'right' office he should have shot up?
I think I still have a box of that stashed away, just for old time’s sake. The ad campaign said that the deadly serrations would saw right through a police vest. The libs were in a hysterical flop-sweat until somebody actually tested the stuff.
I read a story a few years ago about a Blackwater contractor who got off a lucky shot from an extremely long distance that hit a running Iraqi in the ass cheek, and it was an instant kill shot. It tore up the guy's entire lower stomach.
Naturally, they wouldn't let our guys use them anymore, as that just wouldn't be "fair".
The same basic ammo is still available as the Ranger T series, formerly SXT, formerly Black Talon.
Can’t wait for the movie -— “Girl-Girl-Girl Policewomen On Patrol!”.
My PDX1’s by Winchester do wicked harm as do my Hornady’s..
I think the one on the right in the image above your post used to be a man.
There are lots of YouTube vids of gelatin tests using modern .45ACP JHP loads. Some of them make Black Talon’s look pretty mild by comparison.
Say, you don’t think it was the BLACK in Black Talons that sent those racist hoplophobes into a tizzy do you?
Winchester just re-named them ‘Hello Kitty.’
You are correct. I forgot about that “sweetie” who converted from one side of the plate to the other.
I believe the switch was to due to a “Dickectomy”.
White Bans burden...
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