Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Musk: SpaceX to Attempt Falcon 9 First Stage Water Landing
Parabolic Arc ^ | March 28, 2013 | Doug Messier

Posted on 04/01/2013 6:12:17 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer

At a joint press conference with NASA earlier today, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk said the company will try a water landing of its Falcon 9 first stage later year.

The landing will be the start of a series of flight tests that could culminate with an attempted propulsive landing of a first stage back at its launch site in the middle of 2014, Musk said.

During the initial test, the first stage will continue on a ballistic arc and execute a velocity reduction burn to cushion its re-entry into the atmosphere, the SpaceX chief said. Just before splashdown, the rocket will light up its engines again.

Musk said he expected to lose first stages during the initial recovery attempts. The company is looking to gain the experience and data needed to bring a first stage back to the launch site next year for a propulsive landing using retractable legs. He said that attempt could occur in mid-2014.

SpaceX also plans to unveil upgraded versions of the Falcon 9 and its Dragon freighter later this year. The improved rocket includes more powerful engines, longer fuel tanks and a number of significant upgrades that will improve its capability by 60 to 70 percent, Musk said.

Dragon version 2 will be able to carry more cargo and include larger windows for use in later crewed versions of the vehicle. The upgraded Dragon also will feature powerful, side-mounted thruster pods as well as retractable landing legs that will allow for propulsive touchdowns on land.

Musk expects that water landings will become a thing of the past, and that touching down on land will allow the company to conduct missions at a more rapid pace. He did not give any timetable for the first ground landing attempt.

The SpaceX CEO made his remarks during a post-mission press conference for the recently completed Dragon resupply mission to the International Space Station. Joining Musk at the event were SpaceX President Gwynne Shotwell, NASA Administrator Charles Bolden, and International Space Station Program Scientist Julie Robinson.

A full synopsis of the press conference is below.

Opening Remarks

Bolden: •We’re really pleased at working together that SpaceX and NASA teams were able to berth at station and return safely
•Importance of the commercial cargo program and how critical it is for the ISS program
•Orbital Sciences is other COTS partner – set for a test flight of Antares rocket in April

Shotwell:
•Three successful missions in three months –
•First operational mission with Dragon trunk – grapple bars
•A number of technological demonstrations on this mission
•Dragon back in port in Long Beach last night at about 7 p.m.
•All systems remain powered and NASA received all critical cargo
•Returned 3,256 lbs. of cargo – 200 lbs. more than originally planned

Musk:
•Had an issue with Dragon spacecraft briefly
•Slight issue with propellant test valve
•Fixed within four or five hours
•No further issues after that point
•We don’t expect to see that issue again

Robinson:
•Over 200 scientific investigations ongoing on ISS
•Variety of different types of experiments
•300 tubes of blood – studying interaction between nutrition and bone loss — applications for osteoporosis treatment
•Experiment looking at alloy mixtures – launched on Dragon and returned
•Agriculture education, commercial activities
•Samples are on the ground, researchers are beginning to look at them

Q&A Session

Q. When is next CRS launch?

Shotwell: CRS 3 launch late this fall. A number of upgrades to the Dragon configuration that will enable better critical cargo to be sent and returned.

Musk: Will include upgraded Falcon 9. Could increase the useful payload of Dragon by several tons. As much as you could pack into Dragon.

Will attempt to recover the first stage.

“As I said before, I think it will take us several flights before we are successful in that.”

Q. Fairing test status at NASA Plum Brook?

Musk: NASA Plum Brook is an “really, epic super cool” facility

Prepping to do separate tests. Will be releasing information on it in the next few weeks.

Q. Are you optimistic about Orbital Sciences tests going on as scheduled?

Bolden: “Yes”

Q. When will Dragon be ready for human spaceflight and are they still on track for 2015?

Musk: “Things seem to be going very well.” Hitting milestones and hope to do pad abort tests later this year. “It’s coming along really well.” Partnership with NASA is going very well.

Bolden: All of our partners are making very good progress and making their milestones under CCiCAP agreements. The partners are also involved in developing certification process and showing they meet the requirements that are laid out.

NASA is the long pole in the tent. Hope to put out an RFP next spring with down select for providers in Fall 2014. Depends upon how generous Congress is with funding the program.

Q. What was the problem with the thrusters on Dragon?

Musk: There was a “very tiny change” to three of the check valves on the oxidizer tank. Different from the previous ones that flew, and they got stuck. Was able to write some new software in real time that was uploaded with Dragon to increase pressure upstream from check valve and release it. The spacecraft version of the Heimlich maneuver. Once they got unstuck, they worked very well.

Had difficulty communicating with the spacecraft because it was drifting. Worked with the Air Force to get higher powered dishes to communicate with Dragon and upload the software.

Q. How will sequestration affect commercial crew?

Bolden: As we projected, sequestration has a detrimental impact on the commercial crew program by reducing the amount of money available for partners. Don’t see an impact for the rest of this fiscal year (ends September 30), but it will have an impact down the road unless NASA gets more funding.

Q. What is long-term solution for Dragon thruster problem?

Musk: The software uploaded was to get the valve unstuck. We need to fix this tiny little issue with the valve, reverting it to was it used to be. Will do some checks to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

Q. What is strategy on booster recover?

Musk: Initial recovery test will be a water landing. First stage continue in ballistic arc and execute a velocity reduction burn before it enters atmosphere to lessen impact. Right before splashdown, will light up the engine again. Emphasizes that we don’t expect success in the first several attempts. Hopefully next year with more experience and data, we should be able to return the first stage to the launch site and do a propulsion landing on land using legs.

Q. Is there a flight identified for return to launch site of the booster?

Musk: No. Will probably be the middle of next year.

Q. What are long term effects of sequestration?

Bolden: We don’t see an impact for the rest of 2013 calendar year because we ended up with more money than expected in commercial crew. Already discussing delays in commercial crew milestones with partners. Sequestration is a 10-year program that was never supposed to be executed.

Q. What was Bolden’s reaction to SpaceX’s solution to the propulsion problem?

Bolden: Incredible to watch their young, energetic team work through the propulsion anomaly.

Musk: SpaceX and NASA teams are deeply integrated and working closely with each other. It’s great to work with NASA. NASA was so cool, I was far more anxious than NASA was. We have one cool customer.

Q. On the check valve problem, you characterized it as a tiny issue. Was it a manufacturing or a configuration question?

Musk: It was a tiny design revision change from the supplier. The supplier made some mistakes and we didn’t catch those mistakes. Ran system through low pressurization tests, but didn’t run them through the high presssurization functionality tests. Didn’t get stuck in the low pressurization functionality tests. Make sure we don’t repeat that in the future. Need a magnifying glass to see the difference.

Q. How is upgraded Falcon 9 different from the current version?

Musk: Next version is a meaningful upgrade. Has 60 to 70 percent more capability. Improved redundancy, structure, engines, avionics, etc. This version is designed to allow first stage to land propulsively back at the landing site. Will take at least a year to get that right.

Shotwell: Performance changes are more than rocket changes, but translate into an improvement for scientific community. Can bring up more powered cargo, refrigerators, etc.

Musk: Dragon version 2 will be a significant upgrade, with the capability to land propulsively on land. Water landings will become a thing of the past. Will allow for missions at a faster tempo.

Q. Can you provide more details on Dragon Version 2?

Musk: Significant upgrades, powerful side mounted thruster pods. Quite big windows for astronauts to see outside. Landing legs that pop out of the bottom. It look like kind of a real alien spaceship. Started with landing on water because it was the easiest thing to do and we didn’t really know what we were doing. Didn’t want to take any unnecessary risks. Now want to push the envelope on the technology.

Plan to unveil Dragon Version 2 later this year.

Final Comments

Shotwell: Thanks all the SpaceXers for all the hard work they put in. Thanks NASA as both a partner and customer, extraordinary relationship with them. Thanks the Air Force, FAA and FCC.

Robinson: A real consolidation between commercial transport and the use of ISS for commercial research. All these things are going hand in hand, and they’re bringing results back to the U.S. economy.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last
This is a big deal. If SpaceX can get even a reusable first stage going, they will have the cheapest access to space. Neither Russia, China, India, or the ESA will be this cheap. They can own the market for anything the Dragon2 can launch.
1 posted on 04/01/2013 6:12:17 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

This is exciting.

It also opens up private ventures in asteroid mining. If AM could be commercialized, that would honestly eliminate resource shortages in all areas.


2 posted on 04/01/2013 6:14:08 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

And they can start by mining the asteroids that are coming AT us!


3 posted on 04/01/2013 6:15:39 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer
SpaceX Grasshopper
4 posted on 04/01/2013 6:16:03 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred

You mean like this on....


5 posted on 04/01/2013 6:16:12 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

How about a flight where the engines work correctly or they at least reach the planned orbit on schedule before they start touting to be the best.


6 posted on 04/01/2013 6:20:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Compared to nasa I think they are doing great.


7 posted on 04/01/2013 6:22:53 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer
And they are doing fly-then-fix as they gather data from the crashes. Musk expects to lose 1st stages.

No better way to figure out what doesn't work than to break things.

Beats heck out of the US military procurement fix-then-fly with everchanging specs that cost trillions.

/johnny

8 posted on 04/01/2013 6:23:59 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred

Privatized space exploration has done more in the last 5 years than NASA has done since it last landed on the moon.


9 posted on 04/01/2013 6:26:36 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
They made their end-game milestones. Lose and engine and delay the orbit beats what Nasa does. Like just blowing up.

Oh yeah, Nasa doesn't actually have a way to orbit with something that can be man-rated anymore. They spent all their money on theoretical studies instead of hardware.

/johnny

10 posted on 04/01/2013 6:27:25 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred

NASA was doing what they’re doing 40 years ago.

The landing model they are talking about is a copy of what NASA was doing 20 yrs ago and the craft looks almost identical so they were probably given a lot of data.

Sure glad our tax dollars are paying for this politically connected company.


11 posted on 04/01/2013 6:27:34 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

Yeah they barely made their orbit the last trip. Quite a triumph.


12 posted on 04/01/2013 6:28:50 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper

Yes NASA doesnt have a way to put a man into orbit, neither does SpaceX. Despite Obama taking all the NASA money and giving it to SPACEX.


13 posted on 04/01/2013 6:30:45 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
How about a flight where the engines work correctly or they at least reach the planned orbit on schedule before they start touting to be the best.

Have they had any failures as bad as these yet?

Early U.S. rocket and space launch failures and explosion

Numerous US Launch Failures

14 posted on 04/01/2013 6:30:56 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

NASA has basically stalled in space exploration. At least the privateers are making steady progress at a faster clip, than what NASA has been doing.

Your criticism will only be considered valid, if they don’t move beyond what NASA has done.


15 posted on 04/01/2013 6:31:42 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

Yeah imagine that, rockets were just being invented and things went wrong. WOW

60 years later they can’t make their orbits.

Why do you guys celebrate this Obama bundler getting these sweet deals?


16 posted on 04/01/2013 6:32:39 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

Not hard to move beyond something that was stopped when their budget was pulled. Oh and they are forced to help you and to accommodate you.

Amazing how that works.


17 posted on 04/01/2013 6:33:52 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Perhaps NASA should have considered commercializing their services sooner, eh?

That way they wouldn’t be held hostage to government funding.


18 posted on 04/01/2013 6:35:16 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

Its not commercial (aka free market) when the govt pays for it.


19 posted on 04/01/2013 6:36:11 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
NASA was doing what they’re doing 40 years ago.

The landing model they are talking about is a copy of what NASA was doing 20 yrs ago and the craft looks almost identical so they were probably given a lot of data.

Sure glad our tax dollars are paying for this politically connected company.

From my understanding, they investigated and settled on designs that NASA rejected decades ago. NASA was not doing this 20 years ago, they were choosing not to do this, and went with the ultimately more expensive shuttle design. SpaceX has taken the design and is making a lot of progress in a short amount of time. Would you prefer that the cheapest access to space be from Chinese rockets?

20 posted on 04/01/2013 6:36:35 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
It wasn't all of NASA money by a far stretch of the imagination. It was some, and only payable for milestones achieved.

SpaceX does have a functional spacecraft that can carry humans to orbit. It's just not finished jumping through all the NASA man-rating hoops yet.

I would ride in it.

Nasa has to have a meeting to decide who will be at the meeting to set the agenda for the meeting for nominating the NASA personel that will be on the steering committee that will nominate the NASA folks that will write the initial proposal for a study.

I know how that Byzantine operation works.

/johnny

21 posted on 04/01/2013 6:37:37 PM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

So you are saying this is just another obama ploy to gain more control. I get it. Strip nasa, put the funding with one of his boys, and we all lose big in the end. Right?


22 posted on 04/01/2013 6:39:16 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

Thank goodness you are back. I figured you got too stoned there to reply.


23 posted on 04/01/2013 6:41:02 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

You have a point there.

However, as I see it, NASA wasn’t going anywhere beyond where it was. It was a dead duck in the water. It’s good to try something else.


24 posted on 04/01/2013 6:41:37 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred

Drug-free. 45 years and running. :)


25 posted on 04/01/2013 6:42:24 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred

Its an Obama ploy to reward his cronies and punish his opponents. Its working quite well.

yea spacex


26 posted on 04/01/2013 6:43:05 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
Despite Obama taking all the NASA money and giving it to SPACEX.

Isn't Mark "AR-15" Kelly working for old Muskie these days?

27 posted on 04/01/2013 6:45:15 PM PDT by nascarnation (Baraq's economic policy: trickle up poverty)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

NASA was crippled by politics, just as this will be once the politicians (besides Obama) gain some control.

The Shuttle was a political program designed to meet political objectives and made more dangerous by other political agendas.


28 posted on 04/01/2013 6:45:50 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: nascarnation

Why yes he is.


29 posted on 04/01/2013 6:46:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

I can believe you on that point. I know the problem with the foam heat shields, that destroyed Columbia, were due to NASA being ordered to be green.


30 posted on 04/01/2013 6:47:18 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
Yeah imagine that, rockets were just being invented and things went wrong. WOW

Included in those videos were late model Deltas, Atlases, and a Titan IV launch.

When I look at the list of Titan launches going back to 1959, I still see failures even in the 1990s.

31 posted on 04/01/2013 6:47:40 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

I thot a space rock tooked you out....


32 posted on 04/01/2013 6:48:28 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: bigheadfred

I keep praying for that day when a 3 mile asteroid drops square center where I am, but it hasn’t happened.

Yet.


33 posted on 04/01/2013 6:49:32 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

The whole idea of a reusable craft was political.


34 posted on 04/01/2013 6:49:38 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

Call me when Spacex can reach their planned orbit twice in a row. I’ll listen when they put a craft into orbit around Saturn.


35 posted on 04/01/2013 6:50:54 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

They’re doing with NASA money and technical assistance.


36 posted on 04/01/2013 6:53:40 PM PDT by 38special (For real, y'all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

The Space Shuttle may have been a political boondoggle, however re-usable space craft shouldn’t have been.


37 posted on 04/01/2013 6:53:49 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

Musk not only gets our money for SpaceX, he got our money for his Tesla electric cars. Very well connected, indeed. Our Paypal...


38 posted on 04/01/2013 6:53:52 PM PDT by Mamzelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: 38special

I understand that.

I’m just saying I see positivity about it.


39 posted on 04/01/2013 6:54:20 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

I haven’t decided on any one thing yet. Asteroid, supervolcano, nuclear holocaust, plague, alien invasion, The Second Coming. But just as long as it is SOMETHING.


40 posted on 04/01/2013 6:55:01 PM PDT by bigheadfred
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver
Call me when Spacex can reach their planned orbit twice in a row. I’ll listen when they put a craft into orbit around Saturn.

They already have reached the ISS twice in a row. Since they aren't planning to go to Saturn anytime soon, I'll settle for when they start taking business away from the Europeans, Russians, Indians, and Chinese.

41 posted on 04/01/2013 6:55:54 PM PDT by Vince Ferrer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

Boeing, Lockheed, Northrup Grumman, Space X. What’s the difference?


42 posted on 04/01/2013 6:56:56 PM PDT by 38special (For real, y'all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

What Spacex is doing is cool but at what cost? I strenuously object to the way they are getting funded at the expense of thousands of engineers with a proven record. Of course those engineers just tended to be conservative and from states which don’t support Obama.

Sure NASA has made mistakes, heck they still employ Hansen, but they’ve done and are doing some incredible awe inspiring things.


43 posted on 04/01/2013 6:58:15 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

They barely made orbit twice in a row.


44 posted on 04/01/2013 6:58:50 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: driftdiver

I understand that, but how much have they done that is commercialized?

Doing science, for the sake of science, is great in theory.


45 posted on 04/01/2013 7:00:05 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: 38special

“Boeing, Lockheed, Northrup Grumman, Space X. What’s the difference?”

SpaceX is run by an Obama bundler.


46 posted on 04/01/2013 7:01:06 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

” I know the problem with the foam heat shields, that destroyed Columbia, were due to NASA being ordered to be green.”

Those deaths need to be laid at the doorstep of the EPA.


47 posted on 04/01/2013 7:02:52 PM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Jonty30

“I understand that, but how much have they done that is commercialized?”

You’re joking right? The technologies developed by NASA and associated commercial organizations effect every aspect of our lives.


48 posted on 04/01/2013 7:03:17 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: Vince Ferrer

How much payload will Musk sacrifice in order to land his rocket? Gravity isn’t cheap. It will take a good bit of fuel to land that first stage. That fuel will come at the expense of payload.

BTW, NASA has been building and launching rockets for 50 years. What they have learned, they turn over to private industry. You know, people like Elon Musk and SpaceX.

Musk rubbed a LOT of people the wrong way by not giving credit to the people who figured out all of this space flight stuff.

All he is doing is refining what was discovered 40-50 years ago.


49 posted on 04/01/2013 7:05:48 PM PDT by Bryan24 (When in doubt, move to the right..........)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Bryan24

But he’s doing it in such a cool way


50 posted on 04/01/2013 7:06:49 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 49 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-79 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson