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Full war declaration statement from DPRK (via KCNA):
Reuters ^ | 3/28/13

Posted on 03/29/2013 10:05:56 PM PDT by Kartographer

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To: driftdiver

Meant tunnels, used wrong word.


201 posted on 03/30/2013 5:06:45 PM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: Marcella

Its a serious situation and hardly worthy of all the silliness people are up to here. The base I was at was right on the yellow sea. You could look out and see NK fishing boats loaded with antennas (spy boats). The perimeter was loaded with cannon, missile launchers, artillery and the beach was mined.

One side of the base was off limits at night and you stood a very good chance of getting shot by the SKs if you went there.

Most SK people expect a war to break out sometime but they do hope it doesnt happen.


202 posted on 03/30/2013 5:16:22 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: MHGinTN; no-to-illegals; All

The intense fire heat tended to crumble the cement/stone to a 3 story high pile of dust/gravel mixed with rebar and other metal scrap.


203 posted on 03/30/2013 5:24:01 PM PDT by gleeaikin
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To: gleeaikin

First time in history fire melted steel. /s


204 posted on 03/30/2013 5:25:32 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: gleeaikin
Oh yes, the heat was so intense that a woman was photographed standing in the gapping hole left by one of the impacting planes, before the top of the tower cam down.

Do you know how long the collapse of each tower took? ... very close to the speed of gravity. Had there been actual structural components in the path of the upper floors falling, the collapse would have taken much longer.

The dust billowing down the streets when the first tower collapsed was not hot, not scotching the people flee from it when overtaken. Yet hundreds of cars and trucks and busses several blocks away appear to have been burned, or at least 'oxidized'.

I'm sorry, but the conventional official story of what ended the towers is no longer credible. Yes, two planes were hijacked and flown into the towers. No, the vast majority of steel and aluminum and concrete and funishings did not fall to ground in the bathtub. Do you have any idea how many metal file cabinets were int he two towers, and how many were found int he ruble pile which did not collapse into the basements of the towers which were still structurally composed and had firefighters goign through them with the lights still on, looking for any survivors?

205 posted on 03/30/2013 5:37:59 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: JoeProBono
OMG... that's PRICELESS!


206 posted on 03/30/2013 5:38:41 PM PDT by Daffynition (The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted. — D.H.)
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To: Kartographer

Saddam went into hiding...deep hiding...and we had to root him out of his underground pigeon hole.

Before that, we did not want to decapitate Iraq, and by the time we did, it was to our advantage that the Iraqi people try, sentence, and execute him themselves. Which they did.

But notice what we did to his two sons when we found them.

The Korean mad man is out in public often, and would make a target of opportunity we could get...if we wanted to.


207 posted on 03/30/2013 8:54:53 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Yardstick; Lurker
"Laugh in your face,

...problems with you people,"

Well, I happen to know Lurker personally, and have known him here on FR for well over a decade.

Seems to me that you take a lot on yourself, self appointed to call people out, laugh in their face when you do not agree with them, and categorize folks pretty indiscriminantly...but that is just my opinion.

There is nothing wrong with people preparing for the worst...it is a wise thing to do. If you are upset about some of them taking on an attitude about it...that's fine too, but it does not help that cuase when you display pretty much the same type of attitude in reverse.

My guess is that if you knew Lurker personally, you would find him, as I do, to be a very rational, patriotic, and very astute thinker and analyst...and probably agree with him 95% of the time. In addition, he is a U.S. Marine veteran, and is deserving of more respect than you are showing him, whether you knew it or not.

Just thought you should know a little more about who you are talking to. Sometimes it makes a difference when you know more about those you are insulting. In addition, I have always found that it is best to take a care to find out a little something about folks before you turn on the "attack mode," too quickly.

But again, that is just my opinion and advise...you're free to do whatever you want with it.

208 posted on 03/30/2013 9:05:36 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head

North Korea has a system of tunnels and bunkers most likely the most extensive in the world. There have been may vet comment on those that where from and their extent and their engineering.


209 posted on 03/30/2013 10:57:36 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: MHGinTN
a woman was photographed standing in the gapping hole left by one of the impacting planes

Have not seen the picture you describe. That picture would have to stand-up to tremendous scrutiny. Would you happen to know where that picture could be found? Would like to look at that picture with prying eyes.

210 posted on 03/31/2013 4:32:57 AM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: no-to-illegals
There is much disinformation on the Internet, and the presence of Mrs. Edna Cintron captured on still frames, photos and video is real: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZvHTru97dI

One of the most insideous acts pertetrated to cancel the truth regarding Edna is the manufactured photo obituary page tauted as having been made on the ninth BEFORE 911. The disinforamtion specialists can put any date they want on anything they generate. Edna's family carries the truth, so long as they remain alive.

211 posted on 03/31/2013 11:15:52 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Jeff Head; Lurker

Probably not bad advice. My apologies to Lurker.

I just find this prepper stuff pretty toxic and I don’t like seeing it around here. Unfortunately I think I’m more right than wrong about the psychology behind it. Their own writings give it away.

And I have to disagree about the wisdom of preparing for the worst — worst as in SHTF. There’s a point where the risk doesn’t warrant the preparation. There’s such a thing as being too prepared, where you’re trading off too much of your life in the here and now — your time, your energy, your money — to manage a given hypothetical. It’s directly analogous to being overinsured on, say, your car.

People are of course free to make their own decisions about this stuff and to be as prepared as they want to be — and it would nice if guys could spare those of us who don’t see SHTF as a relevant factor the judgementalism and the fantasies about our deaths, rapes, etc. Thanks.

...But it really isn’t even that stuff that bugs me, truth be told, since that stuff is just words on a page. What really bugs me is the bugout, let it burn mindset — the idea that the country is lost and can’t be recovered. To me it’s emabarrassingly out of character for Americans to sit back and hope for an epic disaster to come along and hit the ‘reset’ button. We shouldn’t be counting on SHTF to do our work for us.


212 posted on 03/31/2013 12:37:46 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick

213 posted on 03/31/2013 12:41:00 PM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: MHGinTN

Thank You for that moving tribute to the presence of Mrs. Edna Cintron.


214 posted on 03/31/2013 6:09:32 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Yardstick
What really bugs me is the bugout, let it burn mindset — the idea that the country is lost and can’t be recovered. To me it’s emabarrassingly out of character for Americans

needed saying. Full Attention and Salute!

215 posted on 03/31/2013 6:11:47 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: Yardstick; Lurker
"What really bugs me is the bugout, let it burn mindset — the idea that the country is lost and can’t be recovered. To me it’s emabarrassingly out of character for Americans to sit back and hope for an epic disaster to come along and hit the ‘reset’ button. We shouldn’t be counting on SHTF to do our work for us."

You are talking about two different things here.

There is also nothing wrong with being prepared and having a place to go of temporary refuge should a disaster strike, or should the government go wrong and be hunting you. It can happen. Many people felt it couldn't happen in various countries in the 1930s through the fall of the Soviet Union...and sadly, in some places to this day...but it did and it does. So, having the forsight to be prepared in such circumstances is not a bad thing.

I agree that is it a bad thing to have a hole in the ground mentality and basically decide that the nation cannot be saved so it's "every man for himself." That will simply insure the loss of the country.

But trying to group all of the first in with the second is an equal fool's errand.

There are a lot of patriotic Americans who have no intention of giving up on the country, either now while we can still civilly react and work and hope and pray that the other is not required, and yet who see the excesses and illegal, unconstituional things happening so prepare also against the worst when they would join with all of us and fight if necessary to retain the constitution and our Republic.

Thosem people are very numerous and we must be careful not to throw out the baby with the wash and lump them in with people who do not care. In fact, our common and mutual enemies would hope that we would do just that.

Once again, the reason for finding out about people and their motivations before being too judgemental of them. The fact is, the SCHTF (C is for "Could") and if it did, and we wanted to retain our Republic, we would have to fight and would be thankful if a whole lot of people were preapered to do just that.

216 posted on 03/31/2013 8:42:14 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
To let everyone know where am coming from on this matter will clarify. Had a conversation, not long ago, perhaps two years ago with a close friend. We had been discussing what is normally discussed of what to do if a shtf or schtf type of situation and chaos ensued. Our conclusion was there were numerous persons inside our nation preparing, learning the old ways, those who had kept the old ways and had learned a few new tricks and preparation was ongoing. Instead of walking away on that day being down and out I walked away with new found hope. Americans are the best people, on Earth, at seeing a situation for what it is and preparing for what it could be. There will be many to be there to protect, preserve and defend our Constitution and Our Republic should it become necessary. I do not have adverse reactions to prepping, instead I believe prepping is a part of everyday life. Being a former Scout it was constant the refrain of Be Prepared. America is prepared. America knows the odds. Americans will face those odds (head-on) and defeat anyone coming down the pike. Americans are not stupid nor are Americans to be taken lightly by the world. I do invite the world to take Americans lightly though for the defeat of those who will come against America will be all the easier. The fight may not be easy though because the world has a history to read of and about Americans. Thus to Be Prepared is to Be Prepared. Anything worth having, Americans are good if not great at keeping. Rest well FRiend. There will be a rifle behind every blade of grass, if Americans are forced to defend this land. No doubt in my mind!
217 posted on 03/31/2013 10:08:47 PM PDT by no-to-illegals (Scrutinize our government and Secure the Blessing of Freedom and Justice)
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To: no-to-illegals; Jeff Head; Luker

Great post!


218 posted on 04/01/2013 10:07:56 PM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Jeff Head
There is also nothing wrong with being prepared and having a place to go of temporary refuge should a disaster strike, or should the government go wrong and be hunting you.

As I've said, it's entirely possible to misjudge a risk and put too much of your resources into managing it. In fact, the possibility of misjudging risk is itself a risk. Lots of people have done it and regretted it. A good example is Y2K. I have a family member who got involved in prepping for that, and guess what, it put a real dent in her finances. She would have been better off today if she had put the money in a mutual fund rather than canned food and supplies. It turned out that there was indeed "something wrong" with her decision to prep.

You could take out a billion dollar liability policy on your car and work extra hours to cover the extra premium, but that would be a mistake rather than foresight or prudence. The fact that something "could happen" or even has happened wouldn't be enough to qualify such extra coverage as wisdom. And it certainly wouldn't give you grounds to lecture your neighbor about how it's irresponsible to stick with a normal policy, or to fantasize out loud and at length about how screwed he'd be if the improbable worst case came to pass.

Likewise, in my opinion, it's not necessarily the best use of your time and money to maintain a stocked shelter where you can take refuge if the government decides to hunt you down. Besides the fact that it's very unlikely to happen, just think about what you're saying here. If you are truly serious about putting the plans and preps in place to be able to make a no-kidding stand against the government, or even just hide for any length of time, then you're talking about a very large commitment, because you don't just go about something like that casually.

Such a level of commitment would carry a very real risk of misallocation. What if you had put that energy into, I don't know, finding a better job? What if you had spent the time with your kids? What if you had put the money into investments? In other words it's not just obvious that there's "nothing wrong" with putting those resources into your bugout shelter instead. Sure, something "could happen", but it probably won't, and you're trading off some opportunities that probably would have a real benefit.

BTW, since you mentioned the Soviet Union -- how many Russians were able to get through the collapse without resorting to a bugout shelter or extensive preps? My guess is about 99.9% of them. So what is the lesson there?

219 posted on 04/03/2013 2:07:34 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick

If I say “People who go out in the rain without an umbrella or a raincoat generally get wet” does that mean I wish for people to get wet?


220 posted on 04/04/2013 5:25:21 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Yardstick
Likewise, in my opinion, it's not necessarily the best use of your time and money to maintain a stocked shelter where you can take refuge if the government decides to hunt you down

Fine. Others feel differently. Great country we live in, eh? Great thing, freedom.

That's their right nand perogative.

My point is that the vast majority are not a bunch of wild eyed crazies who have given up on the country and are putting their head in the sand. And a general judgement about them like that should not be made. not only is it just wrong to judge others that way whom you do not know or have never met, it is a mis-representation of the majority of them, and a sever underestimation of them too.

There may well be some who are that way. Too bad for them.

But, there will be many, many others who will be taking that opportunity, should the SHTF, to get ready to fight back, resist, and try and restore America. And that is nothing but good.

And if it never comes down? So what? Who is hurt by them being ready? No one except those who may fear them being ready.

As you say, in your opinion it's not a good use of their time or resource. But it is their time, and their resource and really none of your or my business how they choose to use it. They can do with their stuff whatever they will as long as they are not hurting anyone. And storing food, water, ammo, etc., or having their own cabin or place in the woods hurts no one.

221 posted on 04/05/2013 3:41:53 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Jeff Head
Yes, people are free to do what they want. If this were just about that, the whole thing wouldn't have come up.

The problem is when they post obnoxious stuff like this on an open forum where not everyone is a prepper. I was happy to ignore the preppers until I saw that. That article crossed a line and deserved some pushback, I think.

Since then I've occasionally responded to prepper postings that reflected the same vindictive mindset expressed in that article. The one by BobL is a pretty good example. I think any reasonable observer would agree there was a rather heavy overtone of revenge there.

And yeah, I don't think the wild eyed stuff is all of you. But I know that that stuff is out there, and I don't particularly want to see it dragged into FreeRepublic. To me the prepper community resembles a target, with a wild eyed center surrounded by what are for the most part good and well meaning people. (In fact I would say that even the center is well meaning, just very misguided, to the point of being truly toxic.)

I do believe that as you approach the hard core you will find an increasing acceptance of the premise that the country is lost. I also think you'll find that they are indeed "hoping for it". Both to prove themselves right against the naysayers -- a very human impulse -- and because they've adopted a perspective towards the country similar to that of the exasperated family of an addict, where they hope for him to hit bottom so that he'll finally turn the corner towards recovery. The hope is for a "healing crisis" to restore things, because they see no other hope.

We all know how the left feels a sense of patriotism only towards their imagined "progressive" America of the future. I think this tendency is mirrored in an inverted way in the prepper community. There is no doubt that the basic impulse of preppers is patriotic -- they are fully loyal to historical, constitutional America, the "Republic" -- but I think they are quite conflicted about the imperfect post-constitutional America that actually exists now.

222 posted on 04/05/2013 8:57:29 PM PDT by Yardstick
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