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Welfare: Britainís downward spiral into a third-world economy
telegraph uk ^ | 03-17-2013 | Jeremy Cecil-Wright

Posted on 03/27/2013 7:22:25 AM PDT by HogsBreath

SIR – The Archbishop of Canterbury and his bishops are doing their job when they show concern about child poverty. But where do they imagine that the money will come from to solve this problem? The country is effectively bust and, despite the efforts of the Government, is having to borrow ever more to enable us to continue to live beyond our means. Our current welfare costs are among those contributing to mounting debt that will blight the lives of our children and their children. Every pound that the taxpayer spends on services to the population makes it harder for the wealth-producing activities to function, and this puts us on a downward spiral to a Third World economy.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: britain; economy; socialism; welfare
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This was just a letter to the editor that caught my eye. Are things in England getting bad?
1 posted on 03/27/2013 7:22:25 AM PDT by HogsBreath
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To: HogsBreath

Why dont they do what Cyprus did and just take the money that is saved in British banks?
Its just sitting there not being used for public good.
for the children!


2 posted on 03/27/2013 7:27:37 AM PDT by sickoflibs (To GOP : Any path to US citizenship IS putting them ahead in line. Stop lying about your position.)
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To: HogsBreath

WHY did we bother to save these wretches in 1918 and 1942?

REAL Anglo-Saxons must be spinning their graves at the mess their degenerate descendents have created.


3 posted on 03/27/2013 7:36:49 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: HogsBreath

ping


4 posted on 03/27/2013 7:40:31 AM PDT by dennisw (too much of a good thing is a bad thingGive them --- Joe Pine)
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To: HogsBreath

Amazing. One generation pretty much brought down the entire Western Civilization.


5 posted on 03/27/2013 7:45:15 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: Noamie

It all started when Atlee defeated Churchill in 1946, the die was cast.


6 posted on 03/27/2013 7:45:57 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: ZULU

That is not the point. They are the canary in the coal mine. We are set for an economic calamity in the next generation. We know it. It is just that so many of us refuse to believe that it could happen here.


7 posted on 03/27/2013 7:46:22 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: dfwgator

‘It all started when Atlee defeated Churchill in 1946’ & the national health service.


8 posted on 03/27/2013 7:47:32 AM PDT by Jim from C-Town (The government is rarely benevolent, often malevolent and never benign!)
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To: Jim from C-Town
‘It all started when Atlee defeated Churchill in 1946’ & the national health service.

One lead to the other.

9 posted on 03/27/2013 7:47:59 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Jim from C-Town

We need a good old fashioned World War.


10 posted on 03/27/2013 7:48:20 AM PDT by EEGator
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To: dfwgator

The world has never been in great shape, but the rate of the decline of Western civilization - in every data point (economic, social, legal, etc.) - is directly attributable to the actions of one generation.

The generations right before them couldn’t do to the West in 2 world wars what one generation has done in a time of relative peace. It’s pretty amazing.


11 posted on 03/27/2013 8:01:54 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: HogsBreath

YES YES YES.
I came from there and came here because of how the Uk is going.
No one told me though that in a short 5 years America would go the same way, hell in some ways America is more socialist, at least the UK stopped runing their trains and yet this Govt still runs AMTRAK


12 posted on 03/27/2013 8:22:58 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Jim from C-Town

I would believe it. It’s why I’m a prepper....atleast as best I can for my living situation.


13 posted on 03/27/2013 8:37:00 AM PDT by MachIV
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To: Jim from C-Town

It will.

The creeping disease of western European socialism is already here in the form of Muslims, high taxes, socialism and the present case in the Supreme Court where the leftists are pressuring society to recognize biologically impossible pairings by sodomites.

We need a revolution, but who would show up?


14 posted on 03/27/2013 8:38:08 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: HogsBreath

We have problems, but we havent yet dissolved into Escape from New York type territory quite yet.


15 posted on 03/27/2013 8:55:53 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: ZULU

You didnt save us in 1918 or 1942.

And those wretches have stood at your shoulder from 1917 to 2013. Since WW2, we have stood at your shoulder in Korea, the Gulf, Iraq and Afghanistan. We stood at your shoulder on the night of September 11th 2001. With people like you, I wonder why we bothered.

And our young men and women continue to do so in Afghanistan. In fact one died there yesterday doing his duty, you ingrate.


16 posted on 03/27/2013 8:59:03 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: dfwgator

1945.


17 posted on 03/27/2013 8:59:18 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: manc

NO NO NO.

Britain still has problems, some very serious, but the UK is not dead yet, far from it.

And we need people to stay and fight for Britain, not run.


18 posted on 03/27/2013 9:00:39 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

Well, we DID save your butts in 1918. Had the US not entered on your side, the war would have been a draw. You were bogged down there and NOBODY was winning.

Without US intervention in WW2 in the form of Lend-Lease and our military, you would be speaking German by now adn so would the Russians - the ones who were left.

Had Lloyd George, Clemenceau and Orlando not been so bent on destroying the Kaiser’s Germany after WW1 to their own advantage, there would have been no WW2.

Half the problems in this world were generated by the British Empire and its STILL doing it with these third worlders infecting the west.

By the way, since you are a Scotsman, why the hell are you sticking up for the English?? Remember Culloden??

Sorry about the dead Brit. Too many westerners have died already trying to civilize those savages.


19 posted on 03/27/2013 9:21:14 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: the scotsman

Unless you flush those damn Muslims out, you’re FINISHED.


20 posted on 03/27/2013 9:22:43 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: HogsBreath
The British have forgotten what true statesmen, who love their country, and are not afriad to tell it like it is. Or as Paul Skousen states in his excellent book "The Naked Socialist": The Cycle of Socialism: "...Socialism progresses like a snake eating its tail...."
21 posted on 03/27/2013 9:27:43 AM PDT by CharlesMartelsGhost
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To: HogsBreath

This is our future.

First we will become Britain.

Then we will become Italy.

Pray to God and apologize to your children for not being able to maintain the American Dream. We didn’t cause it, but we lost it on our watch and that makes me sick.


22 posted on 03/27/2013 10:23:08 AM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (Free goodies for all -- Freedom for none.)
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To: the scotsman

I apologize for my fellow American, Scotsman. I’m sorry we lost another young man yesterday in this mess. I know there are broken hearts because of it, and I pray they can find peace.

The US and UK have stood side by side for about a century now, and I’ve always been greatful for that.


23 posted on 03/27/2013 10:24:11 AM PDT by Dogbert41
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To: ZULU

1—You didnt save our rear ends in WW1, it was the British, Canadians and Aussies who threw back the last German counterattack, and it was the BRITISH who led the ‘Hundred Days Offensive’ in summer 1918 that drove Germany back to its borders. America didnt undertake a solo offensive until SEPTEMBER 1918, just two months before the end of the war.

You need to learn your 1918 history. The idea America won WW1 is laughable, you didnt turn up till 1917, and it was the BRITISH who took the brunt in 1918. If any single nation (and NO single nation did btw) ‘won’ that war, it was us. Not America.

2—WW2?. The speak the British dont speak German is because of the BRITISH. America helped Britain, but to suggest you saved us is yet another example of your pitiful grasp of history. Where’d you learn it?. John Wayne films?.

It was the British winning the Battle of Britain, it was Britain and its allies winning the Atlantic sea war, it was Britain and its allies winning in Africa, N Africa, Italy, Sicily and Europe.

Are you honestly telling me that Britain relied on the US to save it in WW2?. Relied on the US army, navy and airforce?. A nation (the UK) with a large army, the RAF, an Empire, and the world greatest navy had to rely on America?.

CANADA ‘saved’ Britain in WW2 just as much as America: they fought from 1939, they supplied us by sea, they gave us $6 BILLION in Mutual Aid (you didnt think only America did lend lease did you?). If any nation helped keep Britain alive, it was your neighbours to the north.

3-—Lend Lease?. I am glad you mentioned it. Are YOU aware of ‘reverse lend lease’?. No, I bet you arent. Between Jan 1942 and Sept 1945 (after LL to the UK had been stopped), Britain GAVE AMERICA £1.2 BILLION in arms and material, mostly to US forces in Britain, but also N Africa and Europe. BUT also British equipment that even ended up in the Pacific.

America also received $8-10 BILLION in RLL from Australia, New Zealand and the Soviet Union.

4—You ignore that BRITAIN also gave the Russians huge amounts of material in lend lease: tanks, artillery, even Spitfires. There was even an RAF squadron who served in WW2 with the Soviets. America gave the USSR huge amounts of Lend Lease, but so did Britain and even Canada.


24 posted on 03/27/2013 10:57:49 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: ZULU

‘By the way, since you are a Scotsman, why the hell are you sticking up for the English?? Remember Culloden??’

Thank you for proving my point that you are utterly clueless about Britain and British history.

1—Britain/the UK/Great Britain and England are NOT the same thing. Got that?. Britain/UK/GB is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Nor is Scotland part of England.

That is why, as a Scotsman, I am BOTH Scottish and British.

2—Culloden?. You mean the famous battle which was NEVER a Scottish-English battle?. But was a battle between pro-Jacobite Highlanders and anti-Jacobite forces, which included Scottish, English, Irish, Welsh forces?. Even Highlanders opposed to the Jacobites. The front ranks of the redcoated British forces at Culloden were almost entirely Scottish regiments.

Both sides of my own family (one Highland, one Lowland) wore those red coats and fought AGAINST the Jacobites. And did so proudly.


25 posted on 03/27/2013 11:04:29 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Dogbert41

And please let my ire directed at an American poster here not cloud the fact that I have a great affection for America, its people and its military. I just dont like ‘bad history’, especially where the UK is concerned.

Thank you for your kind post.


26 posted on 03/27/2013 11:06:01 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

“1—Britain/the UK/Great Britain and England are NOT the same thing. Got that?. Britain/UK/GB is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Nor is Scotland part of England.”

Got that. Hence my inquiry.

“That is why, as a Scotsman, I am BOTH Scottish and British.”

You’re British because the Brits forced themselves upon you, not once, but many times. Read about Edward Longshanks.

“Both sides of my own family (one Highland, one Lowland) wore those red coats and fought AGAINST the Jacobites. And did so proudly.”

And THAT explains EVERYTHING!!!! I support the Jacobites AGAINST the Hanoverian intruders!! I SEE what kind of Scotsman YOU are!!!

I was not aware so many Scots traitors supported those damn Hanoverians.


27 posted on 03/27/2013 11:22:34 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: the scotsman

Give me as much time as you had to google the Net and I’ll pick up some facts to support my statements.

The war in WW1 WAS bogged down. The only reasons the Germans resumed submarine warfare was because they were fearful of American intervention.

As for WW2 - your people were pinned up in Britain while Hitler was running amoke everywhere else.

BY THE WAY,there may have been Aussies and New Zealand troops out in the Pacific but I DON’T RECALL any BRITISH units there.

Winston Chruchill was asked how many Americans he wanted to have sent to fight in Europe for Britain. He said just one - and he would be sure to put him where he was certain to be shot. He said that because he KNEW he needed us over there.

By the way, I DO know a very lot about British History. And the Briton of today isn’t one QUARTER the man of the Briton of yesteryear. (Unfortunately true of Americans also.)


28 posted on 03/27/2013 11:27:34 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: the scotsman

“1—Britain/the UK/Great Britain and England are NOT the same thing. Got that?. Britain/UK/GB is made up of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Nor is Scotland part of England.”

Got that. Hence my inquiry.

“That is why, as a Scotsman, I am BOTH Scottish and British.”

You’re British because the Brits forced themselves upon you, not once, but many times. Read about Edward Longshanks.

“Both sides of my own family (one Highland, one Lowland) wore those red coats and fought AGAINST the Jacobites. And did so proudly.”

And THAT explains EVERYTHING!!!! I support the Jacobites AGAINST the Hanoverian intruders!! I SEE what kind of Scotsman YOU are!!!

I was not aware so many Scots traitors supported those damn Hanoverians.


29 posted on 03/27/2013 11:27:54 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: ZULU

1—The English never conquered Scotland.

Scotland JOINED the UK in 1707 BECAUSE the English invited Scotland in, due to their failure to conquer Scotland. From 1018 to 1640, the English invaded many times, but failed to permanently conquer Scotland.

Men like Longshanks saw their English armies driven out of Scotland. Sometimes it took weeks or months, sometimes it took a few years, but the English, like they failed to do with France, failed to conquer Scotland, as they did successfully with Wales and Ireland.

I know my own country’s history MUCH better than you. I dont need to read any history, I know it, much better than you ever will.

2—The Jacobites supported the reinstatement of a Catholic monarch, and the Stuart dynasty had caused one civil war in 1642, a Scottish protestant rebellion in the 1660’s, and another uprising in 1688 in England and Scotland.

They had been arrogant monarchs who believed in divine and absolute power (Charles I started two wars against Scotland and suspended Parliament because they wouldnt agree to his demands, all of this in just four years). Those opposed the Jacobites simply didnt want another Catholic king from the ‘James line’.

3—Your ignorance of history is astonishing. The Hanoverians sit on the British throne BECAUSE of their Scottish blood!.

The Hanoverians took the British throne in 1714 BECAUSE George I (’german georgie’) was the grandson of Princess Elizabeth of Hanover.

And she was SCOTTISH. In fact, she was the daughter of James VI of Scotland/James I of England and Ireland. In other words, she was a Stuart princess, and her descendants

The current Royal Family are not ‘German’ or ‘intruders’. They are the rightful lineage. A Scottish Protestant Stuart lineage.

Your knowledge of Scottish, English and British history is awful.


30 posted on 03/27/2013 1:22:14 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: ZULU

1—I am a MA in History, and a lifelong lover of history, I dont need to surf the net. I have actually studied, written and lectured on history.

2—Even if WW1 was bogged down as you say, the idea that the Americans turned the tide and even more farcically that they ‘won’ the war and ‘saved’ Britain is utter bilge.

It was the British Army who bore the brunt of the Kaiserschlact counteroffensive in Easter 1918 (being driven back 40 miles at one point before recovering), and it was the BRITISH army who bore the major brunt of the summer Allied offensive to drive German troops back to Germany’s borders.

America?. There were more Canadians and even Aussies fighting in Europe vs the Germans in 1918 than there were Americans. There were even large numbers of Indian troops. As well as French Algerian, British black caribbeans and black French africans.

American troops fought as partners to French attacks in the summer of 1918, they didnt undertake a solo major offensive
until St Mihiel in SEPTEMBER 1918.

And here is another fact (go check it): the American army in 1918 had no planes, no tanks and no heavy artillery. ALL their supplies of the above came from British and French supplies loaned to America. Even a superpatriotic US historian like Stephen Ambrose admitted this fact in his last book (of history essays).

3—Yes, the UK was on its own in 1940-41, but we saved ourselves by winning the Battle of Britain and starting to win the Atlantic sea war (a battle won primarily by the British and Canadian navies).

You are wrong though that we were helplessly pinned down: between June 1940 and Dec 7th 1941, Britain launched commando raids across Europe, founded the SOE, supported and armed resistance units, fought in Greece and the Aegean, fought in Crete. And in Africa, we mauled the Italians so badly Hitler and Rommel had to step in, which means we had to fight the Nazis and Italians at the same time.

We also battered the Italians in Ethiopia and Somaliland, shattered the Italian navy at Taranto, sunk major German battleships. As well as invading both Iran and Iraq to quell pro-Nazi uprisings.

All this alone in 15-18 months.

4—No, the British fought the Japanese in Burma, Hong Kong, Malaya and the other British eastern empire territories.

5—Yes, you HELPED us in 1917-18 and again in 1942-45 (even before). BUT you didnt ‘save’ us. Why Americans feel to need to boast that they did is annoying to most Brits (and other nations like the Canucks or Aussies or Kiwis). Its bad history and it is disrespectful to Britain and to the British, esp those British who died 1914-18 and 1939-45, as well as the other Commonwealth/Empire nations.

You helped us, and we are forever thankful. Be happy with helping and with the gratitude we have.


31 posted on 03/27/2013 1:42:51 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

“You didnt save us in 1918 or 1942.”

If it weren’t for the American Merchant Marine and Lend/Lease you’d be speaking German right now.


32 posted on 03/27/2013 1:52:12 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: the scotsman

Why do you still bother defending Britain on this site, Scotsman? Every Brit from CrazyIvan onwards (and perhaps before) works out that this is an anti-British board and moves on. And yet you keep fighting the good fight. Give it up. Just stick FreeRepublic in your bookmark folder alongside presstv, RT et al and move on.


33 posted on 03/27/2013 1:58:54 PM PDT by WilliamTells
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To: Lurker

If you think Britain relied on the US Merchant Marine, then your history is as bad as I fear.

Britain relied first and foremost on its own massive Merchant Marine, and then on its huge Canadian ally merchant marine, and then on the US. In other words, the US Merchant Marine was the third most important merchant marine to the UK. Not the first. By a long way.

And it was Britain and Canada who bore the brunt of the Atlantic battle (1940-43), and most of Britain’s supplies from North America were carried by the Royal Navy, the Canadian Royal Navy and by the huge British Merchant Marine and Canadian Merchant Marine.

I dont know at all where you get the idea the US Merchant Marine carried the heavy load.

You seem to know little about Britain and WW2. And the incredible and immense British contribution to the war. Or about the British armed forces and merchant marines. Or the Canadian contribution.

Lend Lease?.

You ARE aware that LL only started in March 1941, with the Lend Lease Act, and the first LL supplies started arriving here in late May/early June 41?. LONG past the battle of Britain, Dunkirk and the start of the Blitz.

You ARE aware that pre 1941, from Sept 1939, that Britain BOUGHT and paid for all its arms supplies from the US?, arent you?.

The ‘cash and carry’ method, where all the arms and supplies were carried by Royal Navy and Royal Canadian Navy ships as well as UK and Canadian merchant ships. NOT American ships. Great Britain paid upfront for all supplies before Lend Lease. In cash, gold, silver.

And if we are talking lend lease, are you aware of REVERSE LEND LEASE?.

No?.

That was the Lend Lease TO America from Britain, the USSR, Australia and New Zealand, from January 1942 to Sept 1945.

Britain GAVE America £1.2 BILLION in arms and supplies via RLL from Jan 42 to Sept 45.

Go find out about reverse lend lease, its been sadly forgotten in both the US and UK. As well as Russia and Australia and New Zealand.


34 posted on 03/27/2013 2:14:08 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

ever thought why bother?

Maybe there is a diffeence in hostory but if I rememebr correctly Afghanistan, Iraq both times etc Britain has helped out Amercia, like you said another Brit died over there in Americas war, not that those little things are important to catch the news.

I’ve met many who seem to think Engliand is Britain and think to be an Irish American or Scot American then they have to hate the English which is certainly not true..

Good for you scot


35 posted on 03/27/2013 2:56:57 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: ZULU

er you might know that the UK has helped America in wars too, oh like Iraq and Afghanistan which another Brit died there today.

Also America did not come to the aid of the UK out of being nice, , America came into the war because of Pearl Harbor


36 posted on 03/27/2013 2:59:55 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: ZULU

he might be stating to you how the British came to help American because he is British,.
Scotland is Britain and so is Wales, so is N Ireland and yes Scotland.

As for Culloden, er how many hundreds of years ago was that again?

I’ve met a old American couple who think they;re Irish,their great grandfather came here and now think they;re Irish and to be even more Irish they think they have to hate the English.
Problem for those two idiots is that most irish like the English and vica versa.
Only in America does it have a few dumb thick idiots who can;t get that into their heads


37 posted on 03/27/2013 3:03:56 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Dogbert41; the scotsman; manc
I apologize for my fellow American, Scotsman. I'm sorry we lost another young man yesterday in this mess. I know there are broken hearts because of it, and I pray they can find peace.

The US and UK have stood side by side for about a century now, and I've always been grateful for that.

Expatriate Englishman here domiciled in Canada. I was going to leave this whole post well alone. I do have a Johnny Walker's Red Label to hand, and thought I might shed a little light on this subject.

I had worked in a Steel Plant and there were a large number of ex servicemen as my fellow workers. Now some of them made a bee line for me. I was only a conscript in 1950 though. They sneered at the "limeys" brewing tea while the hard men went and did the job.

A kindly old ex soldier took me aside. He said that the real hard men who fought so valiantly were the LEAST LIKELY to put down the British. I learned later that some of the second string soldiers who went in after the fighting, were the most likely to abuse the German prisoners. They had not fought themselves. They were Guards or holding battalions. They had to consolidate the areas now freed from the Wehrmacht. The real frontline soldiers were more likely to keep their mouths shut, when they returned to Canada.

I can only repeat the phrase from Will Shakespeare- "We band of brothers". I would like to hear from any real American soldier on this blog.

Anyway, I still remember my old grandad, a WW1 veteran in 1942. We never had any eggs, though we were told we had one each per week. He had some greaseproof packages. On the package was two hands shaking with each other. One had a Stars and Stripes on the cuff, the other had a Union Jack. It was reconstituted dried egg. He came in with a huge plate of the British favourite- scrambled eggs. We all cheered.

Some of us do not forget. We were in it together.

38 posted on 03/27/2013 7:25:22 PM PDT by Peter Libra
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To: manc; HogsBreath
Post #36 Manc. Just going to sign off and get on with my genealogy, when I saw your statement.

Can we aqree to disagree? We were bloody well almost on our knees because of food shortages via U-Boat action. We had only twenty percent internal productivity for food. Lots of fish though, if the U-Boats did not sink our lads unarmed as they were.

Neutral America sent us supplies and American lads died as the U-Boats sometimes torpedoed those ships. Once the mob aided by the rotten British communists, started to riot we would have been in dire straights. Cordially, cos I live through it.

39 posted on 03/27/2013 7:34:22 PM PDT by Peter Libra
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To: the scotsman

Why I get ticked at the modern day Brits.

See:

http://gatesofvienna.net/2013/03/david-cameron-declares-war-on-the-edl/#more-27717

WHY do you keep electing these kinds of people????


40 posted on 03/28/2013 5:43:19 AM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: ZULU

Because relecting Labour, after they had ruined the UK over 13 years, was the worst option. Cameron may not be much, but the alternative.....god no.

BTW, I support his attacks on the EDL. As British freepers have tried to tell you here on FR, the EDL are not heroes. They are a bunch of right wing thugs. Too many Freepers see them as great, brave British patriots fightin’ the muzzies.
The EDL are NOT the answer. And I am telling you that as a Brit, a patriot, a conservative, and an ex-military man.

You want to support Britain?. Support UKIP or even the Tories.


41 posted on 03/28/2013 7:23:03 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

In November 2012, David Coburn of UKIP’s National Executive Committee clarified the party’s policies and positions with regard to LGBT issues. The party fully supports the existing concept of civil partnerships. Coburn stated, “UKIP’s stance on gay marriage is simple: we entirely, wholeheartedly support equal rights for couples regardless of their sexuality and we believe this has been achieved through the introduction of civil partnerships, which UKIP supported.”[38] The party is not in support of Government proposals for full same-sex marriage. This is on the basis that such a change in the law could mean that religious faith groups, and places of worship (be it a church, synagogue or mosque, etc.) could be forced to perform a marriage that is incompatible with their religious beliefs.[citation needed]

From Wikipedia. Actually I support this. A reognized “Domestic Partnership” Leave the definition of what constitutes a marriage up to the churches and take it out of politics.

What is their position on firearms?


42 posted on 03/28/2013 1:30:04 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: Peter Libra

Amen brother!


43 posted on 03/28/2013 1:44:43 PM PDT by Dogbert41
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To: ZULU
I too support and always have done civil partnerships, and full legal rights for gay/lesbian partners. Re guns: Quote 10. Nigel Farage of UKIP was asked about the UK's gun laws and said, "We have not got it right. It was knee-jerk reaction. Hungerford was awful, Dunblane was quite horrific and just like the Dangerous Dogs Act, we overreacted, we put in place a piece of legislation which means our Olympic pistol team have to go to France to practice, they are not allowed to practice in the UK. It is because politicians think that if you see a problem if you put a piece of legislation that will solve the problem. Clearly it doesn't." "I am not against a proper licensing system; that is sensible and that is what we should be doing. "But to bring in a total ban and for Mr Blair to stand up in the Commons and say that by doing this gun crime would be brought under control, well we know that gun crime is far worse now than it was before handguns were banned." "I do not think we are complacent. I have a son at school in south London and he is very conscious that guns and knives are out there on the streets in very big numbers. Legislation is not the answer, but having real police on the beat might just be." Quote Householders? Right of Defence - 2010 Manifesto 'UKIP is concerned that a number of householders have been charged after physically confronting intruders entering their home. UKIP would reiterate the fact that householders should always presumed innocent when defending themselves, their family or their property from criminals. In addition, UKIP would require all intruders to prove that they had good reason for being in the property in question, and if this was not the case, then this would also be taken into consideration if they were then confronted by the home owner and a court case followed. UKIP deplores the fact that the Conservatives are only prepared to give householders who defend their properties with vague promises of ?greater protection‟. This statement means nothing without specific guarantees. Despite years of debate, they still have no innovative solutions on how to deal with a crime wave which is blighting the lives of millions of people across the country. This is why it is UKIP who are now the party of law and order and not the Conservatives.' 'No policies outlined with regards to repealing any firearms laws, although normally in favour on the issue' http://www.armbritain.com/forum/index.php?topic=18.0 http://www.armbritain.com/forum/index.php
44 posted on 03/28/2013 5:37:10 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: ZULU

Sorry my reply is a mess, tried to post it more cleanly, but...


45 posted on 03/28/2013 5:37:43 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

That’s ok.
Iget the point. I profusely apologize for my earlier attacks. My fingers were working without a brain.

Without an England (Magna Carta, Simon de Montford, English :Common
Law) there would be no America. As a matter of fact about every June 15th I post a link to the Magna Carta here


46 posted on 03/28/2013 8:43:08 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://gatesofvienna.net/)
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To: the scotsman

“They are a bunch of right wing thugs”

Wow. You sound a little like Chris Matthews here. Please, tell us what exactly makes the EDL a ‘right wing’ organization (bearing in mind this is a ‘right wing’ website, so the insult is a little misplaced). As right wing is a push for smaller government, perhaps you can inform us when it comes to the EDLs well developed policy positions on economics and other issues the ‘right wing’ care about. From what I’ve seen, the EDL is mostly made up of lower class Brits who are forced to live with Muslim scum, and lower class voters in fact tend to vote for Labour.

You appear to have been sucked in by the slime-covered rags that the UK calls ‘newspapers’ and the British Broadcast Communists. Don’t worry though. When ordinary people in this country got together to stand up against the government’s policies, we were branded ‘right wing thugs’ too, and I’m sure we were a hell of a lot more right wing than a one-issue street protest movement, the only ones willing to say anything about the Islamization of Europe, while UKIP and the pathetic excuse for ‘conservatives’ you have sit on their hands.

If you have a thing against the right wing, you probably belong on Democrat Underground.


47 posted on 04/03/2013 6:55:33 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: Viennacon

By right wing, I mean extreme right wing.

I am ‘right wing’ myself: conservative, leaning towards UKIP. Eurosceptic, anti-immigration etc.

I am sucked into nothing. I am actually British, I have seen the EDL in action, I know their background. Unlike you, who sits 3000 miles away. And its no coincidence that the other British Freepers all oppose the EDL (also no coincidence that the EDL-lovers on FR are all Americans): winniesboy, Vanders etc.

We Limey freepers are all conservative, anti-immigration (or at least anti unrestricted immigration) and in some cases ex-military. Yet we all dislike the EDL. That might tell you something. So, you can try and call us liberals or whatever. Dhimmis or whatever phrase you like. BUT this is a group in OUR country, not yours. How arrogant to tell us we are wrong about a group in our own country.

Do you want to know WHY we dont like them?. Simple. They are a group at the borderline, if not over the borderline. They have links to both organised football hooligan groups, and extreme British white power/neo-nazi groups like Combat 18. Their hierarchy and many of their followers have convictions for violence. Their leader, Steven Lennon, who is a hero to some here on FR, is a convicted thug with at least one conviction for assaulting a police officer.

And given the above, the EDL has questionable attitudes to blacks, asians and Jews. Blacks are not welcome in the EDL, they have one Asian member of note, and I am not aware of any jewish, gay, sikh, hindu members. So this is not a true UK group of patriots. Frankly, its the National Front and BNP with some smooth edges.

The EDL is not, not even remotely close, to being a British tea party group, as some deluded Freepers think. There seems to be this frankly ludicrous idea that Steven Lennon and the EDL are heroes ‘cos they is standin’ up to the muzzies. That they is the real British patriots, and anyone who dislikes them is just a wimp or a liberal and aint no real Brit.

Horse*hit.

(btw, I am sure the KKK hates Muslims. Does that make them patriotic heroes to most Americans here?.)

We who are actually British (freepers)KNOW the EDL. We know it better than people here. We know its background and its links. If it was a genuinely good group, we’d support it. But the EDL are not heroes, they are a group that in fact will HARM the very real and very necessary problems that Britain has with extreme Islam and with immigration, multiculturalism etc.

You want to support the UK, support a real conservative group that will try to right the wrongs of multiculturalism and social engineering?. Support UKIP.


48 posted on 04/04/2013 7:26:08 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

Don’t let ZULU’s ignorance get to you.

I am an American of Scottish descent (specifically Ulster Scot) that is proud to stand with Britain.

Gorgeous George and Red Ken notwithstanding. ;-)


49 posted on 04/04/2013 7:35:50 AM PDT by sauropod (I will not comply)
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To: WilliamTells
Every Brit from CrazyIvan onwards (and perhaps before) works out that this is an anti-British board and moves on.

Not true. The Brits are perhaps our greatest allies and are true friends of America.

I, for one, will continue to support them publically.

50 posted on 04/04/2013 7:44:18 AM PDT by sauropod (I will not comply)
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