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Indiana Supreme Court upholds broadest US school voucher program, clears way for expansion
WAPO ^ | 3-26-13 | ap

Posted on 03/26/2013 8:06:57 AM PDT by TurboZamboni

INDIANAPOLIS — The Indiana Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld the law creating the nation’s broadest school voucher program, clearing the way for a possible expansion.

In a 5-0 vote, the justices rejected claims that the law primarily benefited religious institutions that run private schools and accepted arguments that it gave families choice and allowed parents to determine where the money went.

The Indiana case has received national attention because the program has wide eligibility. Middle-class families are allowed to participate in Indiana, while in most states, such programs are limited to low-income families or those in failing schools.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Breaking News; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: choice; education; freedom; schools
a ray of hope.
1 posted on 03/26/2013 8:06:57 AM PDT by TurboZamboni
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To: TurboZamboni

They don’t want to give parents a choice because the parents will “self-select” into segregated

“give a damn about my kids”
and
“don’t give a damn about my kids”

schools.


2 posted on 03/26/2013 8:08:23 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: TurboZamboni

I hope one of the arguments was the current public shool monopoly is failing to actually educate our children


3 posted on 03/26/2013 8:09:28 AM PDT by Mr. K (There are lies, damned lies, statistics, and democrat talking points.)
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To: MrB
there is another reason people oppose this which is never talked about.

Those already sending their kids to private schools (even though they would seemingly benefit a lot financially) might be opposed for the following reasons:

1 - Government vouchers will drive up the costs of a private education thus eliminating the most positive benefit (simple supply and demand). Which is exactly what has driven the cost of college through the roof in the last decade or two as government loans and grants have flooded US colleges.

2 - Private schools would be flooded with the rude, ill-behaved, liberally indoctrinated, feral children that private school parents were so desperate to keep their children away from to being with.

4 posted on 03/26/2013 8:17:17 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: TurboZamboni

Good news; I hope it spreads.


5 posted on 03/26/2013 8:23:44 AM PDT by Excellence (9/11 was an act of faith.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

The government probably wouldn’t allow this,
but the solution to the unruly kids ruining a school is simple -

kick ‘em out.

If the parents want their kids to be in a school where they have been warned about their behavior, the parents will be sure the kid shapes up.

Again, though, the government wouldn’t allow this. Liberalism is all about there being no consequences for behavior.


6 posted on 03/26/2013 8:30:10 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: TurboZamboni

Public schools are redistribution of wealth, and they are the ultimate propaganda machines. I can think of no thing that is so evil.


7 posted on 03/26/2013 8:44:42 AM PDT by Born to Conserve
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To: TurboZamboni

The real question is why government is involved in education in the first place. Even conservatives aren’t asking that question.


8 posted on 03/26/2013 8:55:52 AM PDT by lurk
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To: TexasFreeper2009

It runs that risk. I’d like to know if it is indexed for inflation, at or below the cost of the average private school cost, and if there is any incentive on the part of the parent to “save” money.

Also, what happens to home schoolers?


9 posted on 03/26/2013 9:02:58 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: lurk

I favor tuition tax credits.

Nobody makes us shop at a limited selection of goobermint-run grocery stores and we eat EVERY day, ALL year.


10 posted on 03/26/2013 9:21:27 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: lurk

Broadly:
Catholic schools teach that Catholicism is the source of truth.
Christian schools teach that Christianity is the source of truth.
Jewish schools teach that Judaism is the source of truth.
Muslim schools teach that Islam is the source of truth.

And Government Schools teach that Government is the source of truth.


11 posted on 03/26/2013 9:24:12 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: TexasFreeper2009

The best answer to your concerns is there is a private school for those also?

If not make one!!


12 posted on 03/26/2013 9:36:09 AM PDT by Baseballguy (If we knew what we know now in Oct would we do anything different?)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
"2 - Private schools would be flooded with the rude, ill-behaved, liberally indoctrinated, feral children that private school parents were so desperate to keep their children away from to being with. "

This is exactly why I'm against this. The private schools will gladly take the gubmint money which will initially be given to the poorest of the poorest kids. The culture of the private schools will immediately change for the worst. Classes will have to be "dumbed down" for the new student.

This is exactly what happened to my kids' private school once they went Division II sports (allowed to recruit "athletes"). Now the school is falling apart as the white middle class kids are leaving in droves.
13 posted on 03/26/2013 9:47:03 AM PDT by AdamBomb
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To: Baseballguy
the one thing that private schools would have going for them in this regard is... unlike the public schools they don't have to take everyone, but can select only those them choose.

Of course.... that may no longer apply when they are receiving money from the government in the form of a voucher! I can easily see a situation similar to what occurring with student loans and colleges happening to private schools. After letting all the private schools get used to all the extra income a flood of parents with vouchers will supply... the government will simple come in later with demand X. With the threat that if demand X isn't complied with vouchers will no longer be allowed to be used at their school.

This will then be used to impose every left leaning crack job idea imaginable onto the private schools.

14 posted on 03/26/2013 9:57:27 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: 1010RD
The cost of a product will always equal what people are willing to pay for it + the amount that is subsidized by the government.

Thus, if a private school education costs $5,000 a year because that is all parents are willing to pay for it... and the government come in with vouchers, grants, loans or whatever and pays for $4,000 of that cost...

what do you think the cost will be in the future? I'll tell you! it will then cost $9,000 for that same education!

15 posted on 03/26/2013 10:00:54 AM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: TurboZamboni

They’ll be no joy in unionville tonite!


16 posted on 03/26/2013 10:42:19 AM PDT by AtlasStalled
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To: MrB

When Indianapolis Public Schools had a district “Voucher” program a few years back, the overwhelming majority of parents sent their kids to THE CLOSEST SCHOOL. Simplicity for the PARENTS was the first family priority.

The teachers union, and the Bus Drivers Union threw fits until the program was canceled with the arrival of the new (now almost-gone) superintendent.

A few sent kids to specialty schools, but not very many.


17 posted on 03/26/2013 11:15:04 AM PDT by tcrlaf (Well, it is what the Sheeple voted for....)
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To: Mr. K
I hope one of the arguments was the current public shool monopoly is failing to actually educate our children

So true; but, the public education machine isn't there for educating your children, it is there to benefit the teacher's unions. So, from their pov, it is working perfectly well.

If you are a parent who actually cares about your child's education, then this is very good news indeed. Too bad it is not catching on in the rest of the country.

18 posted on 03/26/2013 12:16:18 PM PDT by LibertarianLiz
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To: TexasFreeper2009
2 - Private schools would be flooded with the rude, ill-behaved, liberally indoctrinated, feral children that private school parents were so desperate to keep their children away from to being with.

This is the big one. The voucher plan could thus kill the private school system.

19 posted on 03/26/2013 12:22:03 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: TexasFreeper2009
there is another reason people oppose this which is never talked about.

I agree with both reasons. As a parent whose child starts private Christian school this fall, I want parents to have to sacrifice to send their kids to private school. That way, the only kids that will be there are the ones whose parents really want them to be. We make above median income, but not greatly above. The school he will be attending is less than some other private schools in the area, but we are giving up a lot to send him there. It's a very nice car payment, maybe two car payments. Or a bigger house. But, I will gladly give those up to provide him a better academic opportunity with a Christian world-view, surrounded by kids whose parents feel the same way and are very involved.

20 posted on 03/26/2013 12:31:28 PM PDT by tnlibertarian
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To: AdamBomb
This is exactly why I'm against this. The private schools will gladly take the gubmint money which will initially be given to the poorest of the poorest kids. The culture of the private schools will immediately change for the worst. Classes will have to be "dumbed down" for the new student.

The vouchers will be for a fixed amount of money. Schools can charge more than the voucher, with the parents needing to kick in the difference. So high-priced private schools will not get any "inner city" voucher kids, but private schools with more modest tuition levels will be flooded with ferals.

21 posted on 03/26/2013 12:33:05 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: TurboZamboni

Woot!

God save the children.


22 posted on 03/26/2013 12:35:13 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas
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To: TurboZamboni
This happened almost two weeks ago and the teachers unions are going bananas. Yesterday they published a full page ad in all Alabama newspapers (with big letters) "STOP THE ATTACK ON PUBLIC EDUCATION" call your representative...all the numbers were listed, etc.

Gov. Robert Bentley Signs Alabama Accountability Act

The bill allows families with children zoned to failing schools to receive tax credits to help pay for attendance at private schools or other public schools. It authorizes donation-funded scholarships for students zoned to failing schools whose families meet income requirements. It allows local school systems to seek waivers from some state policies.

23 posted on 03/26/2013 12:36:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: lurk

“The real question is why government is involved in education in the first place. Even conservatives aren’t asking that question.”

It is a shame, the presuppositions we accept any more. Like with Medi-Cal or Medi-Caid or Social Security, we are interested in getting rid of fraud and illegal alien benefits and waste, but, few talk about chucking the entire program.

I could see a legitimate argument for the state needing literate citizens who understand their citizenship rights and responsibilities.

Ideally I’d like to see a public library in any county of over so many people, and at that library “free” (tax payer funded) literacy, basic math, and civics courses. Not forced, but available at various times and days for all citizens of any age.

The argument for this would be civil and common defense, as illiterate people who can’t add are not capable of modern warfare, not much. Also, citizenship requires a basic knowledge of the laws of the land.

That’s how it would be if I were King. The current model of public schools gone, no compulsory education. But no.


24 posted on 03/26/2013 1:00:13 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: TurboZamboni

Good. Privatize everything from the DOE down to one room schoolhouses.


25 posted on 03/26/2013 1:58:40 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: lurk

In some states it is actually written into their Constitution....

This is to me in the business of change yet another crack in the dam that will soon fall in the Monopoly hiding as Public Education (really Indoctrination!)


26 posted on 03/26/2013 3:48:25 PM PDT by 100American (Knowledge is knowing how, Wisdom is knowing when)
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To: TurboZamboni

My neighbors send their boy to this school in Indianapolis. Many signs in the neighborhood promoting the school. I am not sure if it is public or public supported.
http://www.paramountindy.org/


27 posted on 03/26/2013 4:48:44 PM PDT by Bronzy
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To: MrB

We have a program in our kids’ private Christian school, grades 7-12, where we raise funds for scholarships for underprivileged kids. Sure, those middle school kids come in sassy and underperform at first, but by their senior year they are transformed. They have real hope and real skills, and easily manage to get scholarships into good, primarily Christian, schools.

As for the kids who are hard cases and don’t fall in line, they get kicked out. It happens enough so that everyone knows it’s a real possibility. But they are a small minority of the scholarship kids.


28 posted on 03/26/2013 8:38:21 PM PDT by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
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To: TurboZamboni

the second private schools accept those dollars the leftists will force them to use the same currculum as publik skoolz


29 posted on 03/26/2013 9:30:14 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Born to Conserve

Do you feel the same way about Public Libraries?


30 posted on 03/27/2013 7:30:06 AM PDT by Borges
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To: TurboZamboni

My daughter-in-law teaches in a private school, she said that they were not too thrilled with the voucher program. It depended on if the state then would have a say in how you ran your school. She teaches in a catholic school.


31 posted on 03/27/2013 2:39:09 PM PDT by southernindymom
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To: southernindymom

I think tuition tax credits could be the answer.

No “state money” involved. (keeping your own money)

Of course, leftists believe your money all belongs to The State and you’re just fortunate they let you keep some.


32 posted on 03/27/2013 2:41:52 PM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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To: TurboZamboni

Look for teachers’ unions and MSM to go totally apeshit in Indiana 5...4...3...2...1...


33 posted on 03/27/2013 4:41:34 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: TurboZamboni

This may be good, but
Unfortunately Indiana has proven recently that it does not believe in the most basic protections in the constitution.


34 posted on 03/27/2013 5:58:14 PM PDT by Revel
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To: TexasFreeper2009

It depends on the character of the school. A school with a strong religious mission, as opposed to one with only the title of Christian will resist the temptation to let the money be the determining factor. But even a school with a more mercenary view will hestitate to offend its existing customers, who can, after all, chose to go elsewhere.


35 posted on 03/27/2013 9:13:29 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: TurboZamboni

The reason why federal aide was allowed the colleges but not the schools was the specious distinction between a school and a college. Schools are for indoctrination, but colleges, not. But the GIs who went to college on the GI Bill often remarked how childish were the 21 years olds they found themselves in school with. High schools are for indoctrination only if they become no more than higher elementary schools, holding pens to keep boy and girls from growing up.


36 posted on 03/27/2013 9:20:19 PM PDT by RobbyS
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To: TurboZamboni

“I hope one of the arguments was the current public shool monopoly is failing to actually educate our children”

I think that this is what most people think of when the hear about vouchers.

Another argument that is rarely made and that will probably be a driving force towards moving states to a voucher system is cost.

If it costs a state an average of 10K per year to educate a student, a 5K voucher will net the state a 5K surplus.

If enough students leave the public system, there will be fewer teachers and administrators, fewer facilities, fewer buses, etc., which will lead to even more savings.

As states continue to struggle to meet their budget needs, the cost factor may end up being more important than the quality of education, which is a major talking point for many states but doesn’t seem to be a concern otherwise.


37 posted on 03/28/2013 5:51:44 AM PDT by CriticalJ (Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress.. But then I repeat myself. MT)
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To: GeronL
the second private schools accept those dollars the leftists will force them to use the same currculum as publik skoolz.

It's already being implemented! It's called Common Core and its descripton is filled with focus tested phrases that make it sound wonderful, but it's really set up to totally federalize education down to the lesson plan. It leaves room for no more than 15% input from the teacher.

All but 5 states have adopted it or are considering it through state legislatures where the elected officers know next to nothing about it. There are about 17 or 18 states that adopted it and are now trying to get rid of it.

It will even be enforced on charter schools and home schoolers. Bill Ayers (domestic terrorist and current education specialist) is involved in its design so you can readily figure what its purpose is...

38 posted on 03/28/2013 9:12:55 AM PDT by Sal (Pres and DOS watched our people get raped + murdered in REAL TIME-did nothing and don't care!)
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To: lurk

Correct-a-mundo.

Parents pay for their own brood. No tax credits (those w/out kids should not be paying for the brood mares to begin), reduce the overall taxes and let the parents hire/fire/elect/whatever for their own.


39 posted on 03/28/2013 9:39:52 AM PDT by i_robot73 (We hold that all individuals have the Right to exercise sole dominion over their own lives - LP.org)
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To: lurk

Education should be primarily dealt with at the local level, with only essential oversight by the states such as requiring the essential history, math, sicence and English courses.


40 posted on 03/28/2013 9:45:59 AM PDT by matt04
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To: matt04
You are fundamentally correct. The idea of a Federal role, outside the District of Columbia or any other Federal Reservation, is absolutely asinine. That both parties have flirted with it, is one of the most damning examples of how far we have drifted both from the intention of the Founders & any realistic understanding of how human societies work for the better.

William Flax

41 posted on 03/28/2013 9:49:08 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: TurboZamboni

So true.


42 posted on 03/29/2013 6:16:44 AM PDT by southernindymom
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To: RobbyS

We used to joke that college was just H.S. with ash trays.

(then they banned smoking)


43 posted on 03/29/2013 8:05:04 AM PDT by TurboZamboni (Looting the future to bribe the present)
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